Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. Like most online communities, you must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

C-MAX Energi membership upgrade information can be found here.

C-MAX Energi Premium Memberships


Click here to learn about our upgraded memberships.

Ad

Ad

Photo
- - - - -

Will The Battery Be Charged After A Long Trip


  • Please log in to reply
107 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ArizonaEnergi

ArizonaEnergi

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationArizona
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:C-MAX Energi 302A

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:40 PM

If I drive 20 miles on EV to the Interstate, deplenting the charge, then go on ICE and drive on the Interstate at 65-75 for 150 miles, will the battery be fully recharged at the end of that trip?









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   paladinfello

paladinfello

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 95 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco
  • Color:White Platinum
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX Energi

Posted 25 February 2013 - 10:48 PM

From my understanding no.  The on-board charging system that generates from the ICE and breaking is not enough to charge the high-voltage battery to a point where it will run in EV only mode.  The battery will charge to a hybrid level that uses a mix of battery and ICE but no EV mode until you plug-in.



#3 OFFLINE   Tdefny

Tdefny

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 487 posts
  • LocationNew York
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:'13 C-Max Energi, '02 Prius, '00 Town & Country

Posted 26 February 2013 - 03:18 AM

There is no point in making electricity that you don't use, so the system works as a regular hybrid, using the power when it has the chance.

#4 OFFLINE   ArizonaEnergi

ArizonaEnergi

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationArizona
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:C-MAX Energi 302A

Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:35 AM

Well, that's disappointing, but I guess if it takes 5 hours to charge at home I can't really expect much from a 2 hour trip anyway,  Anyone know exactly how many watts the ICE puts out while it is running?  Thanks for the information.



#5 OFFLINE   Valkraider

Valkraider

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 587 posts
  • LocationPortland
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-MAX Energi

Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:04 AM

The ICE could actually charge the battery very quickly - if it were allowed to. The ICE turns the generator which will charge the battery. It is a DC quick charge type situation - same as the regenerative braking. This charges the battery very fast.

It doesn't utilize the "charger". The "charger" is an on board unit for AC charging, and is fairly slow (even on Level 2 it's still only 3.3Kw).

Since the generator is a DC unit it charges the battery directly DC to DC and if allowed could operate like the Level 3 DC quick chargers and go to 80% capacity in a matter of maybe 10 or 15 minutes.

However this would waste a good amount of fuel and also can be hard on the battery - the faster you charge the battery (rate of charge) the harder it is on the battery. There is a good post discussing that somewhere here in the battery topics....

However, the engineers have not enabled this type of functionality because as mentioned it would be less efficient than simply driving the car on gasoline power...

#6 OFFLINE   DonS

DonS

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 136 posts
  • Locationusa
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi

Posted 26 February 2013 - 05:41 PM

Maybe if the trip was downhill and you were coasting in L ...

 

:smile2:



#7 OFFLINE   altabrig

altabrig

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 291 posts
  • LocationSouthern California
  • Color:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ford Cmax energi Oxford White 2011 Subaru Outback 3.6R

Posted 27 February 2013 - 03:18 AM

^ I am itching to know how much regen can be accomplished in a long downhill.   We have a 4k descent at Mt Baldy, but with the snow quality being mainly rocks, I can't justify the 50 mile run up just to test L or hill assist regen.



#8 OFFLINE   jeffegg2

jeffegg2

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 187 posts
  • Locationwestland, mi.
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi

Posted 28 February 2013 - 09:49 PM

I think you are confusing this with the chevy volt. The chevy volt ice only charges the battery. The Cmax uses a split drive and both the electric and the ice drive the transmission. The battery charges some when the ice is driving the wheels, but not like the volt does.

 

Ford went this route as the engine ADDS to the horsepower available and is not just a generator motor to lug around.



#9 OFFLINE   Gyrobob

Gyrobob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationNewnan
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:20 PM

I can't believe they deliberately designed in no capability to recharge the battery while on a long trip.  It appears the only option when you drive a few hundred miles is to stop and charge it up for several hours before you can use the battery only mode.  Incredible.  What an oversight.

I will be using the car to go see the Granddots several times a year,.. a one way trip of 480 miles.  The way the car is designed, when I get to their place, I won't be able to use it in battery-only mode until it can recharge several hours later.  I want to be able to get there unpack, throw them in the car and go out to dinner, using the battery only. 

 

It would have been a simple thing to do to design in a mode where the gas motor provides primary propulsion while it also slowly charges the battery to allow some battery-only travel after the long trips.



#10 OFFLINE   KeiJidosha

KeiJidosha

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 32 posts
  • LocationSimi Valley, CA
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi SG/LS w/ 303A

Posted 17 May 2013 - 12:46 PM

I can't believe they deliberately designed in no capability to recharge the battery while on a long trip.  It appears the only option when you drive a few hundred miles is to stop and charge it up for several hours before you can use the battery only mode.  Incredible.  What an oversight.

I will be using the car to go see the Granddots several times a year,.. a one way trip of 480 miles.  The way the car is designed, when I get to their place, I won't be able to use it in battery-only mode until it can recharge several hours later.  I want to be able to get there unpack, throw them in the car and go out to dinner, using the battery only. 

 

It would have been a simple thing to do to design in a mode where the gas motor provides primary propulsion while it also slowly charges the battery to allow some battery-only travel after the long trips.

Just use EV later. It is just as efficient to save the charge than to use it then recharge. You are looking for what Volt calls "Mountain mode";

http://gm-volt.com/f...hp/t-18364.html.

Wife drove up to San Francisco and wanted "EV now" mode available, so she drove up in EV later. Same difference.



#11 OFFLINE   Gyrobob

Gyrobob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationNewnan
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:19 PM

Just use EV later. It is just as efficient to save the charge than to use it then recharge. You are looking for what Volt calls "Mountain mode";

http://gm-volt.com/f...hp/t-18364.html.

Wife drove up to San Francisco and wanted "EV now" mode available, so she drove up in EV later. Same difference.

 

That assumes you have EV capability to start off with.  It would have been nothing more than programming some of the control circuitry to enable the charging system to put a charge back into the battery while rolling down the highway.  I understand it would take a while,.. several hours maybe,... but at least you'd have the option of using some of the energy you are paying for as you please.  It just annoys me a lot that once the battery is no longer EV capable, you are stuck using only the gas motor until you can park the car for several hours to get back some EV capability.



#12 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:47 PM

 

That assumes you have EV capability to start off with.  It would have been nothing more than programming some of the control circuitry to enable the charging system to put a charge back into the battery while rolling down the highway.  I understand it would take a while,.. several hours maybe,... but at least you'd have the option of using some of the energy you are paying for as you please.  It just annoys me a lot that once the battery is no longer EV capable, you are stuck using only the gas motor until you can park the car for several hours to get back some EV capability.

They would have done this if it made any sense. No charge system is 100% efficient and you would be using more net energy for co-generation vs just switching to gas when plug in runs out. The reason most folks buy this car is to help reduce the amount of fossil fuels consumed. Why would you want to spend more money and gas just to operate in electric mode?


Edited by Don, 17 May 2013 - 01:47 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   DozerBob

DozerBob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 154 posts
  • LocationLaguna Hills, CA
  • Color:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:Sterling Grey Energi, Finally

Posted 17 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

Hey GyroBob,

      

 

That assumes you have EV capability to start off with.  It would have been nothing more than programming some of the control circuitry to enable the charging system to put a charge back into the battery while rolling down the highway.  I understand it would take a while,.. several hours maybe,... but at least you'd have the option of using some of the energy you are paying for as you please.  It just annoys me a lot that once the battery is no longer EV capable, you are stuck using only the gas motor until you can park the car for several hours to get back some EV capability.

The way the Energi works is like this. After charging the car for about 6 hours the car is fully charged. you have the choice of when to use the all electric portion of the battery, Now or Later. If you choose to use it now and totally deplete it, that's ok. You then would not be "stuck using only the gas motor until you can park the car for several hours to get back some EV capability". Because the way this car works is, You drive for about 1 minute on the gas engine which propels you AND charges the 1.1 KVh portion of the battery. Then you can back off the throttle and let the gas engine turn off and the battery then drives the electric motor for about 1 and a half minutes or so, and the cycle repeats itself. Here is a picture of my cars lifetime summary as of today.

IMG 3096
That shows 13210.1 Total miles driven of which 7771.4 were driven without the gas engine running. That comes out to 58.8% of my driving is done on Electricity. I like this car alot. DozerBob

Edited by DozerBob, 17 May 2013 - 02:13 PM.

  • Retired1 likes this

#14 OFFLINE   ArizonaEnergi

ArizonaEnergi

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 492 posts
  • LocationArizona
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:C-MAX Energi 302A

Posted 17 May 2013 - 02:55 PM

EV Later is like having our cake and eating it too!  We get to have the great C-Max Hybrid car that everyone knows and loves, and later, whenever we want, we get to have an electric car for 20-25 miles of driving smoothly around on electrons.



#15 OFFLINE   Gyrobob

Gyrobob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationNewnan
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:35 PM

They would have done this if it made any sense. No charge system is 100% efficient and you would be using more net energy for co-generation vs just switching to gas when plug in runs out. The reason most folks buy this car is to help reduce the amount of fossil fuels consumed. Why would you want to spend more money and gas just to operate in electric mode?

The reason they should have done this is because it makes so much sense.  I want to have my cake and eat it too.  I want to be able to use it as an EV most of the time, but be able to use it for trips sometimes too.  It would be quite easy for them to alter the programming a bit so that when I got to a destination after 400 miles, the battery would have been charged up enough to use in EV mode when I got there.  Where you get the idea this would use more fossil fuels is beyond me.  Energy is energy.


Edited by Gyrobob, 17 May 2013 - 07:03 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   dr61

dr61

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 506 posts
  • LocationRedding, CA
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi, Mini Cooper S ALL4

Posted 17 May 2013 - 03:58 PM

The feature you describe would use more gas.  Energy is energy, but conversion is not 100% efficient.  A small amount of conversion is done as described by DozerBob when not made by regeneration. Doing a small amount of this makes the extra torque from the electric motors available for use along with the ICE, and to allow use of reverse (all electric since there is no reverse gear for the ICE).


Edited by dr61, 17 May 2013 - 05:03 PM.

  • Don, RBookman and hljmesa like this

#17 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 04:30 PM

The reason they should have done this is because it makes so much sense.  I want to have my cake and eat it too.  I want to be able to use it as an EV most of the time, but be able to use it for trips sometimes too.  It would be quite easy for them to alter the programming a bit so that when I got to a destination after 400 miles, the battery would have been charged up enough to use in EV mode when I got there.  Where you the idea that this would use more fossil fuels is beyond me.  Energy is energy

Lack of understanding energy, energy conversion, and efficiency, are the major reasons that Hybrids and PHEV's have not made more of an impact on the car market. There is a huge lack of understanding and a lot of skepticism about these excellent examples of engineering put into practice.

 

Unfortunately there are a lot of skeptics, snake oil salespeople, astroturfers, ignorant lay persons, that have no background in energy analysis and or engineering yet somehow they feel they are more knowledgeable than the accumulated experience of thousands of scientists and engineers that create these remarkable machines. It is always good to question why things are the way they are but I don't understand why you would say something makes so much sense when you obviously have no understanding of the subject.


Edited by Don, 17 May 2013 - 05:26 PM.

  • dr61 and hljmesa like this

#18 OFFLINE   Gyrobob

Gyrobob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationNewnan
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 06:59 PM

Lack of understanding energy, energy conversion, and efficiency, are the major reasons that Hybrids and PHEV's have not made more of an impact on the car market. There is a huge lack of understanding and a lot of skepticism about these excellent examples of engineering put into practice.

 

Unfortunately there are a lot of skeptics, snake oil salespeople, astroturfers, ignorant lay persons, that have no background in energy analysis and or engineering yet somehow they feel they are more knowledgeable than the accumulated experience of thousands of scientists and engineers that create these remarkable machines. It is always good to question why things are the way they are but I don't understand why you would say something makes so much sense when you obviously have no understanding of the subject.

No need to get your panties all wadded up,... this is supposed to be fun stuff. 

 

You make a lot of invalid assumptions and accusations. I have four degrees, two of which are in engineering.  One of my master's papers was done on a car that was basically an electric car that had an onboard, small, but highly-efficient gas powered recharger.  This was in 1977.  I do have a bit of background in these issues.

 

Now, if you can relax just a bit, please consider my thinking here,....  The car can recharge the batteries with 110/120v plug-in, 220/240v plug-in, and with the onboard systems in a prius mode (standard hybrid).  My only point is that since all that capability is there, it would have been a really simple thing to have the onboard charging systems slowly bring the battery back up to full charge on a long gas-powered trip.  I'll betcha once this car gets really popular, there will be aftermarket mods available for it, like there are for the prius,... and the capability I want might be doable with very little modification.

 

Now see?,... that isn't such an evil thing, is it? 

 

;-)

 


Edited by Gyrobob, 17 May 2013 - 07:02 PM.

  • hljmesa likes this

#19 OFFLINE   Gyrobob

Gyrobob

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationNewnan
  • Color:Ingot Silver
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:02 PM

The feature you describe would use more gas.  Energy is energy, but conversion is not 100% efficient.  A small amount of conversion is done as described by DozerBob when not made by regeneration. Doing a small amount of this makes the extra torque from the electric motors available for use along with the ICE, and to allow use of reverse (all electric since there is no reverse gear for the ICE).

The feature I describe would use more gas and less coal.  It would also make me more inclined to buy the car, since I can really benefit from such a feature.  Where did anyone get the idea that energy conversion is 100% efficient?



#20 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,020 posts
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 17 May 2013 - 07:37 PM

Still makes no sense and the 1000's of years of accumulated engineering experience agrees with me, hence no additional energy wasting functionality.

With more and more of our grid being converted to clean power generation : geothermal, solar, hydro etc. why would you assume that burning more gas is better.

At least coal is domestic while a lions share of gas money goes out of country and fuels evil empires.

 

BTW, you still come across as being clueless if you still deny that using gas to make electricity, in a less than 100% efficient process, does not consume more fossil fuel than simply burning gas to propel the car directly.

 

Since you state you got your advanced degrees in the 70's I can only assume those degrees were handed out along with the blotter acid they were printed on.

 

One more thing. I do like things to be fun but my number one goal, in participating in this forum, is to help Ford and all Energi owners become successful with the car. When I come across people that, without warrant, try to poison the perception of the car, and/or how it was engineered, I do get seriously offended. It hurts even more when people try to cite their alleged accomplishments and educational background in an attempt to build credibility yet they display a completely ignorant viewpoint. Either you are an astroturfer, here for your own amusement, or you are a testament  to how our educational system is failing.


Edited by Don, 17 May 2013 - 08:39 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users