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Guest Message by DevFuse

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what do you think? Does full HVB on nrg in later mode help hybrid performance?


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Tony_NC

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 06:33 AM

Leaving on trip in a couple days and have been thinking about 'best' way to manage the total battery.

 

Plan is to get on highway about 13miles from here and then go about 600 miles.

 

14miles of EV wouldnt do all that much for me and could possibly be used up by time I hit the highway, so, does anyone know from experience that saving the HVB charge is of any benefit to the hybrid battery portion of the pack?    I will have to remember to keep switching it back to EV later mode after every pitstop.

 

the weather here has been rainy and chilly.  I was waiting for a nice day  to change the trans fluid, but now, with trip on Tues, I am not going to chance something unforeseen happening :( .

 

Thanks for you input.

Tony

 

 









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#2 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 08:19 AM

Where are you going what is the terrain like all highway or country roads and what about the end of the trip.  Can you give me the starting point and ending point so I can look it up on google and give you some advice?

 

-=>Raja.



#3 OFFLINE   Tony_NC

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 09:05 AM

Hello Raja-

 

sure, I will say the trip is from Raleigh NC to Daytona.   Thing is, I am not looking for max miles or speeds etc.   Rather than reinvent the wheel, I realize I will be running for that distance in hybrid mode and the limited 15 miles of EV mode are not even a factor in anything on a trip that long.  Question is, IF I run the HVB to zero and simply run hybrid mode would I benefit ANY by saving the HVB full charge with regard to how the hybrid may act?     I know I could save the charge for traffic jams and off ramps etc.

 

Plan is to simply set the cruise a bit under the limit and enjoy the ride, I am just trying to figure if carrying full charge has benefits for the hybrid portion of itself.



#4 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 09:57 AM

Go glad you asked, will give you the best performance thoughts.  First off it seems to me that its 95% highway so your only opportunity to use the battery is on the first leg of the trip.  Once you get to Daytona I presume maybe you're going a mile off the highway not much more but if you need more then you can save some for that.

 

If there is no need to save any, then use the Auto mode and drive slower 45mph or less on the surface roads to the highway.  But don't use all of it, save 5-10% if you find you're running out before the highway.  Once on the highway start the engine but wait for it to warm up and take the load before going to full cruise speed of 65/66mph.  I usually cruise at 1/2 blue bar on the coach bars, just under the yellow for max efficiency and good speed to get there (around 66mph).  When you start the engine, there is a period where the battery does more of the load (check Engage screen to see this) until the engine warms up and is released from 1300 rpms lock, in this time you want to keep it slower and wait for the Engage screen to go all white power before you accelerate to 65mph.  Might be like a mile or two depending on the OAT but I guess in your case in the south it should be around 1 mile.  Just stay in the right lane at around 50 and then increase speed to 65 slowly and set cruise control sit back and relax.

 

If there is a need to save some battery, then start the engine on a section with no lights and warm it up as you keep it running with the power demand low.  Once warmed up use the engine to climb hills and then switch back to battery.  This process is easy, drive in auto mode, when you see a hill coming, 1/4 to 1/8th of a mile before tap tap (twice) on the EV button to go into EV later, and as the hill comes press the accelerator slightly above the top of the blue (you should be in Empower screen) and the engine runs and you climb the hill.  Once at the top tap one the EV button, let off the gas briefly to quit the engine, and press the gas again to continue in EV power.  This procedure will extend your EV range by up to 50%, so you'll go from 14 to about 20 miles or so if you exclude hills.

 

Now here is the important part, once you get on the highway and push EV later, look at the % of battery that will be saved on the left screen.  Let's say for example it say 22%.  At this point, you want the engine to charge the battery in EV later mode to 24% (+2%) and the battery to stay at 24% (check MFT screen leaf icon screen to see battery level).  Once there at 24% then your engine will net 45mpg+ at 65mph on the highway in cruise.  See my videos here I posted alot about that.  In Florida, there are alot of "flyovers" where you go up over a road crossing under the highway.  Usually what happens is that you go up, and on the downhill section the engine quits it goes into EV at 65mph.  AS SOON AS the decent is done, you want to TAP the accelerator to reignite the engine.  You do NOT want the car to continue on EV power at 65 for a mile or so until the hybrid battery is exhausted and the engine starts automatically.  If you do this then your charge level drops from 24% down to 20%  or maybe less and then the engine has to charge it all the way back up to 24 % before your MPG go north of 45mpg.  Otherwise while its below and the engine is charging the HVB you're getting somewhere between 20mpg and slowly increasing to 45 as the charge level rises assuming a flat road.

 

Also same thing goes throughout the trip, if the engine quits for any reason while you are cruising on the highway at 65, then you need to tap the gas and restart it asap.  Do not let the car yoyo between engine and EV power making the charge level discharge and go back up while cruising on the highway.  Keep the engine running as much as possible.

 

To answer your question, NO do not run the HVB battery down to zero at any time during this trip or other trips, you lose flexibility and I feel its not as good for the battery to be deeply discharged.  If you have some charge level left in the battery, you also have the ability to increase that charge level by using the EV later button if necessary (another discussion).  Plus you always want to save some charge level in case you run into a traffic jam and to stop off the highway to get some gas.  

 

Speaking of gas, I wouldn't fill up in NC, use whatever you have and fill up in SC, its cheap there.  A good place to stop is exit 160A that is 150 miles from you.  If you don't have enough gas for 150 miles, put in a couple of gallons to have a little over that and then you can fill up there.  You shouldn't need more than 4 gallons total to make that trip assuming you follow the above.  Murphy express where I go is currently $1.98.  You can also go back to Hilton Garden Inn at that same exit, plug in your car, and walk to get something to eat to break up the trip.  Within walking distance is Longhorn, Olive garden, Chili's, Firehouse subs for example.  From there you should be able to reach all the way to FL without another stop for gas.

 

Hope this helps, you can follow this for best efficiency performance or just trim it to whatever you like.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 24 February 2019 - 10:04 AM.

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#5 OFFLINE   Shake-N-Bake

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:12 PM

Very interesting advice. Will give this a try on my next long trip. Drive Phoenix to Tucson this past weekend which is about 120 miles each way. Short drive from home to highway and then EV Later at that point. Display said 80%. Drove all the way to Tucson in that mode at 75 mph which is the speed limit. You couldn't tell though because everyone else was passing me like I was an obstacle. At the destination, displey reported 34 MPG.

Drove around town a little and exhausted the plug in charge.

Drive back to Phoenix in Auto mode on hybrid power at a speed of 70 mph and display stated 35 mpg.

I don't remember seeing the electric assist at 75 mph but it did appear fairly regular at 65-70 mph but I just let it do its thing.

My next trip I will try the method you describe and see what happens. Is this method only effective at speeds of 65 mph and less?

#6 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 12:26 PM

At speeds of 75 I doubt electric assist is going to be able to kick in because it would take more than 2 bars of power to overcome wind drag.  Remember that drag doubles from 55mph to 75mph so at 75mph I don't think you're going to see much north of 37mpg, that's what I got when I was running at 75 some years back (but it was in the winter).  Drop 1/2 way to 66mph and your MPG will go up to the mid 40's.

 

Try to keep the engine running if you do a test at 65mph and see what happens to mpg when the battery goes to 82% assuming you started at 80% ev later.  You can confirm good performance by looking at the instant MPG numbers while in cruise a 65.  There are more losses when you discharge a battery and have to recharge it back up on the highway (running at the same cruise speed) so its best not to discharge it in the first place and maintain your engine higher MPG numbers.

 

Something to think about, if you drive at 65 your gas mileage will go up meaning you will have to make less stops for fuel.  Believe it or not it might even be quicker if you slow down and get there without a stop for gas than go faster and have to stop for gas.  Of course it depends on how much faster you go and how long you stop.  My friend Larry follows me to FL every year and he has to stop to P often.  I keep the cruise at 66mph and he stops quickly, and then gets back on the road and catches up going 75.  Takes him usually about 15 to 20 minutes to catch up.  One day he stopped to do #2, well, it took him just about 1 hour to catch up!!   Think about it, if you stop for 10 minutes, I'm 11 miles ahead of you already.  If you drive at 75mph, you do need an hour to catch up.  :)

 

Give it a shot and let me know if it works better for you.

 

All the best, (and I DO hope at least Tony saw that long response above, spent alot of time explaining it to him, wish he could benefit from it).

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 25 February 2019 - 12:27 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   Tony_NC

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 03:26 AM

Yes. I saw the response,  i am leaving shortly.  I have brought astronaut diapers to prevent stopping, mileage should be way high :wink: .   I removed the Winter air from my tires and put Spring air in, should be good there.

 

I am sure I will have time to experiment a little.  I am hoping for mpg in the 40s by simply driving consciously.

 

report back later.

 

Tony



#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 08:03 AM

Yes. I saw the response,  i am leaving shortly.  I have brought astronaut diapers to prevent stopping, mileage should be way high :wink: .   I removed the Winter air from my tires and put Spring air in, should be good there.

 

I am sure I will have time to experiment a little.  I am hoping for mpg in the 40s by simply driving consciously.

 

report back later.

 

Tony

Did you put 50 psi in the tires? :smile2:

 

Paul



#9 OFFLINE   Shake-N-Bake

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Posted 01 March 2019 - 02:57 PM

Raja,
Your advice appears fruitful. I drove the C-Max to the office today which was a 19 mile trip for the freeway portion....and about 5 miles on surface streets. I saved HVB charge at 80% and using your technique I ended up with 90% by the time I got off the freeway. I now know I can use more of the plug in charge before switching to EV Later and still have enough "banked" for when I exit the freeway.

Mpg on this trip was 51 per the display.

Will keep experimenting and learning.
Thanks for the tips!

#10 OFFLINE   Tony_NC

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 12:46 PM

Results are in. Nothing earth shattering, neither was my driving technique.....

 

I traveled with cruise set to 72ish.   I left with full charge set to EV later.  I then burned up the charge while in Fl, approx 14+ miles.  Return trip had zero battery.

 

Ole C Max does like to get up and go 90 when driver isnt watching too close. It runs very smooth.   When I got home and drove other car, it felt like there was something wrong with it in comparison to C Max. The C max is very refined in comparison.

 

stats

23:34:48 trip travel time

1297.8 miles 217.1 ev

37.8MPGe

34.24gal

total miles on car 58557.3

 

I did see hybrid assist along the way at 70mph.    

 

It was a fine road  trip :thumbsup:

 

btw, my other car is an outlander sport, 2.0 engine/cvt and on same trip it delivers 31+/- 1.



#11 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:32 PM

Performance could be better than 37.9mpg Tony if you followed my techniques, but I understand its not for everybody might be too involved to think about that stuff some people just want to drive.

 

Sounds like you weren't even in cruise control as you found yourself doing 90 here and there.  Its a great car, I love mine, enjoy it to the max :)

 

-=>Raja.



#12 OFFLINE   Tony_NC

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Posted 07 March 2019 - 04:34 PM

Raja-

 

So you now, I do appreciate all the tips and suggestions.  They are just too difficult for me to follow when you get into the rush hour group of drivers.  They are insane!

 

The school buses being regulated to some unsafe speed of about 60mph were the reason most of the traffic was exceeding the limit in the fast lane.    Drivers would get trapped behind a bus and no one would let them merge out.   I had to stay with the flow to avoid getting run over, thats when I noticed i wasnt hypermiling anymore.

 

Going to take other car on similar trip next week, but further, to Lakeland this time.   I wont see the same mpg but I can hope for very low 30's.

 

Later-

Tony










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