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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Protecting your battery


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33 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 02:03 PM

God I gotta stop but here is one more piece of advice...

 

If you are sitting at say 15% and find that you need to go out to the grocery store, you know or should know that you need say 10% to get there and 10% to get back or whatever it may be.  Charge the car up enough to get you there with a little extra buffer, so in this case charge it to 40% (instead of 100%), go run your errand, and come back and now the car sits at 20% when you get home and just leave it at that.  

 

Better than charging it to 100%, doing that errand, and coming home to sit at 80% for some more extended period of time.  Basically put enough in it to get you where you need to go, and only put 100% in it if you know you're going to need all of it.  Sometimes you might be going somewhere with a charger, for example, for me the 99 restaurant.  Its 27% away from here on the HVB in the summer, closer to 37% in the winter.  So, if we are going tonight I would charge my car up to 40 to 45%, enough.  Get there with 3-8% battery and plug it into their charger while we eat, then go home and get home with whatever is left.  Better than charging it to full before going out, getting to the 99, and the car is already back to 100% full while we are still not finished eating.

 

Things like that take a little bit of thinking and planning, but I'm seeing my wife is getting good at that with her mini, she tells me all the time now how much % it took to get to where she was going, and also she remembers if that's her best or if it took less % some other day.  

 

OK, enough for now and hope this helps as many of you as I can!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 26 November 2018 - 02:05 PM.








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#22 OFFLINE   Allornothing

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:36 AM

Thanks Raja the advice is greatly appreciated. 



#23 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 11:10 AM

You're welcome Allornothing, and folks, it CAN be done (protecting your battery), look at this great example I got from the Fusion forum, he just PM'd me the other day:

 

 

Raja,

 

   I was perusing the C-Max forum and saw you are still active over there.  I basically picked up your mantra on Battery Life on the Fusion Energi forums when you disappeared.  I was probably too zealous at first, and took some heat, but I'm fine with that as I'm only helping others. 

 

Thanks to your posts, I quickly learned and modified my charging and driving patterns to keep from damaging my battery.  The results are very encouraging.  I bought mine over a year ago with 44k miles on it and a barely used battery, and have since put 18k miles on it charging 5-6x/week and it is still just as good of shape as new.

 

Things I do:

- Only charge to 90% on the screen, unplugging before 100% (my value profile starts such that 90% is reached right at my departure time.)

- only discharge to 10%, rarely ever entering hybrid mode.

- Use gas whenever: 1) entering the freeway, 2) climbing a hill 3) using heat/defrost, and 4) any time there is a high demand on the battery.

 

The one "no-no" I do on a regular basis is drive at 65MPH on the freeway in EV.  I only do this when cruising, not accelerating.  This is partly because the drain rate is the same as accelerating from a stoplight (~2C rate) but also because 95% of my commute is freeway. 

 

It stinks that I have to use the gas more than I wanted, but my battery is at 5.5kWh from 100% to the switch Hybrid mode. Nearly new!

 

The battery discussions on the Fusion Energi forum are pretty rare these days.  Just some disappointed people with batteries that only net 3.6-4.4kWh.  They learned too late, no thanks to Ford.  It seems like you're still having to educate people on the C-Max forums.

 

Anyway, thanks for carrying the torch and helping me along the way. 

 

Best,

 

     Jeff

 

-=>Raja.



#24 OFFLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 09:18 AM

Does anyone know if your climate use reports on the Kwh discharge?

 

I'm trying to track my battery degradation (I think i'm now getting about 4.6 or 4.7) but I'm not sure that if the heater running in my car (now that its winter) is actually tracking / reporting accurately on the "End Of Trip Info".

 

To try confirm this, I drove home in EV Later mode, let the heater run, watched the estimated Km slowly decline, but when I got home, the trip didn't read any Kwh used.

 

Is that because it was in EV-later mode and Only KM driven tracks on Kwh used?

 

If that's the case, then perhaps my battery is still at 5.0 (or above)?

 

I do know that in EV Later mode, hybrid battery doesn't report on Kwh use for over all trip

 

Hard to figure out. If anyone has insight, it would be appreciated!



#25 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:11 PM

Does anyone know if your climate use reports on the Kwh discharge?

 

I'm trying to track my battery degradation (I think i'm now getting about 4.6 or 4.7) but I'm not sure that if the heater running in my car (now that its winter) is actually tracking / reporting accurately on the "End Of Trip Info".

 

To try confirm this, I drove home in EV Later mode, let the heater run, watched the estimated Km slowly decline, but when I got home, the trip didn't read any Kwh used.

 

Is that because it was in EV-later mode and Only KM driven tracks on Kwh used?

 

If that's the case, then perhaps my battery is still at 5.0 (or above)?

 

I do know that in EV Later mode, hybrid battery doesn't report on Kwh use for over all trip

 

Hard to figure out. If anyone has insight, it would be appreciated!

 

When driving in EV Later. The left screen will indicate the percentage of the HVB that will be preserved. If the HVB is at 100% switching to EV Later will cause HVB level to be maintained at 95%. Switching at any lower charge level in the HVB will cause the percentage HVB capacity to be preserved at the current level. So for all practical purposes driving in EV later will cause the car to operate as a normal Hybrid charging and discharging the small portion of the HVB set aside for this purpose. It is normal for the trip to record little or no HVB usage when driving in EV later since any hybrid charging will be offset by Hybrid discharging. 

As for the Heat it will be derived from the heat created mostly by the ICE when driving in EV Later . If any HVB power is used to augment heat it will use only what power is available in the Hybrid portion of the HVB. Once the ICE raises the coolant temperature, the coolant alone will be used for the cabin heater. I normally wait until the coolant reaches about 130ºf before turning on the heater. I usually use the seat heaters at first. Once on the highway after a minute or two the heater can be turned on. Driving on city streets can take much longer to raise the coolant temp so I usually only use the seat heaters on short trips and drive in EV even in cold weather. 

For best practices I believe that if the cabin heater is going to be used, switch to EV Later and don't bother to deplete the HVB. The car will still get good milage. 

 

The best way to determine the HVB capacity is to start with a full charge. Reset a trip meter. Don't use the heater or AC and drive in EV until the HVB is depleted and switches to Hybrid. At this point the trip meter should show the kWh used.  Perform this test several times to get a good average.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tom


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#26 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:44 PM

The one niggle I have with the mention of waiting for the coolant temp to rise before turning on the heat is it feels like, at least from a couple of attempts doing this, that the car will put a higher load on the engine if more heat is needed and/or it is colder outside in order to facilitate warming the coolant faster. In a number of cases on some of the colder days this season so far I have left my house in the morning in EV Later and forced the engine on straight away before backing out of the garage. With the heat on straight away it'll pretty reliably get above the first line on the coolant gauge and start blowing heat through the vents right about the time I get to the light at the end of my subdivision about 1/3 mile out. Additionally just the sound seems like it is placed under a higher-than-idle load. Without heat turned on, it seems to take anywhere from double that to a full mile for the coolant gauge to get to the same spot and sounds closer to a warm weather idle.

 

With that said I can kinda see the advantage of letting it warm up at its own pace just from being used for propulsion vs essentially running at what is a high idle with no propulsion and wasting fuel JUST for heat. And also depends if youre drive is a lot of stop and go or a more solid run where the ICE will be running most of the time anyways. But I guess it is to each his own for whether one prefers maximum comfort or fuel efficiency. Just something I have personally observed of how this car operates when it comes to HVAC usage.


Edited by cr08, 07 December 2018 - 12:46 PM.

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#27 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:28 PM

Hard to figure out. If anyone has insight, it would be appreciated!

 

I have the exact answer for you.  There is a BUG in the 2017 model where when you switch to EV later the car does NOT count kwh any more.  This causes an error.  This did not exist in the 2013 model.  Ford changed some things around and broke some stuff in the process.  

 

So basically if you switch to EV later the error comes when you use some battery (HVB) and switch back to auto mode then it start to count again.  But you can consume anywhere from 0.1 to 0.5kwh in EV later unaccounted for.  If you switch back and forth from EV later to Auto over the entire battery pack drain the kwh might only count 4.7kwh, but that is not the correct discharge number.

 

In order to get the correct number, with the 2017 model, you must remain in auto mode the whole time to count the kwh out of the battery.

 

Cr08, 

 

I have insight for you also.  If you turn on the heat right away the car starts the engine to make heat because you're demanding it, especially if in Auto mode.  EV mode might stop the engine from starting if its not too cold.  However, what you're missing is that the electric heater is ALSO helping the engine warm the coolant, and you're consuming 5+KWH and gas to heat the coolant.  So double the heating capacity, that's why the coolant gets hotter quicker.  Put up the climate screen and you will see 5+KWH out of the battery when you turn the heat on.  As the coolant and ICE heat up, the draw will drop eventually down to nothing when the coolant is above 130F in warmer states, when much colder it needs to be above 135 closer to 140F.

 

Tom is right to wait until the coolant is hot enough before turning on the heat.  This prevents the discharge of the HVB to warm the coolant for you which in turns means the ICE has to recharge it back up and that in turn will lower you MPG efficiency.  The engine while charging the battery can net somewhere between 20 to 30mpg, but when the battery is full you can get OVER 50MPG on the highway at 65mph, I'm not joking, here, see for yourself:

 

https://youtu.be/Emnz4ayU8X4

 

This is from my recent trip down I95 towards Florida.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 07 December 2018 - 06:31 PM.

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#28 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:51 PM

I'm not even talking about the extra discharge from the electric heat. I'm talking about actual load being added to the engine being seemingly variable depending on conditions from a) what the ambient temp is and b) what the HVAC system is set at. In fact the ICE gauge on the left screen will indicate this quite well. TL;DR: Running heat turned off with the ICE running it is going to take its sweet time to let the engine warm the coolant whereas if it sees a call for heat with very cold outside temps, it raises the load on the engine to aid in warming the coolant even faster.

 

As a side note at least on my 2013 in EV Later mode the electric heat is capped at just under 2kw usage the same as being in charge-depleted hybrid mode.



#29 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:00 PM

The engine load is due to the electric heat.  When you pull 5kw+, the motor generator is harder to turn making the engine grunt more.  Just like a generator when you draw more power the engine grunts more and you can hear the difference.

 

My 2013, just like the 2017, will pull 5+KWH out of the battery when you turn the heat on.  It will also start the engine unless you are in EV mode, that lowers the threshold, but, if the temp is low enough, it will still start the engine.  Take another look at yours, I'm sure its the same.  2 KWH does nothing for the heat, that's just a maintenance discharge when the car is warm enough to maintain the temp, that would be about the minimum electric heat will draw once you got the car up to 65F and its not below 32F outside.

 

-=>Raja.



#30 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:55 AM

As a side note at least on my 2013 in EV Later mode the electric heat is capped at just under 2kw usage the same as being in charge-depleted hybrid mode.

 

Not sure how/when you're seeing that.  My 2013 has no caps on the electrical at all.  It all depends on how cold it is outside, and how warm you want it inside(and defrost demands a higher water temp) and the coolant temp.  But no matter the EV/Later/Auto mode, if it feels like it, it will be plenty happy to draw 5KW.



#31 OFFLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 06:25 PM

Thanks everyone for the information. Certainly helps.

 

My issue, I live in Toronto, Canada and typical mornings temperatures at the moment are approx. -7c / 20f so its almost impossible not to use heat as soon as possible or you wont be able to see out the windshield  :smile2:

 

None the less, I will use the above information to track through the winter, hopefully I maintain a 4.7Kwh ('ish) average, and see what happens when April rolls around.

 

Hopefully at that time I can see that number back up to 4.9 or 5Kwh once I don't have to use HVAC in the spring weather.

 

Cheers!


Edited by dougTFC, 09 December 2018 - 06:32 PM.


#32 OFFLINE   Allornothing

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 12:28 PM

I appreciate all the advice on here to save the battery, it's certainly been a learning curve.  I'm happy to say after following the advice from everyone on here on the last charge I was able to break the 30 mile barrier on the battery, it was actually 31.  I've been careful when switching from auto to EV later as well as watching the draw on battery from heat etc.  Temperatures have moderated some here and have been in the high 20's to mid 30's so it's been warmer.   My wife thinks I've gone off the deep end, but it's been fun trying to get the battery level and mileage up. 

 

I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous new year. 

 

Happy Holidays!



#33 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 01:55 PM

I think that it's great for us on the obsessive end of the spectrum to have the various EV modes available.  The rest of my family is far less interested in micro-managing the ICE.



#34 OFFLINE   Billyk24

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Posted 20 December 2018 - 04:56 PM

I appreciate all the advice on here to save the battery, it's certainly been a learning curve.  I'm happy to say after following the advice from everyone on here on the last charge I was able to break the 30 mile barrier on the battery, it was actually 31.  I've been careful when switching from auto to EV later as well as watching the draw on battery from heat etc.  Temperatures have moderated some here and have been in the high 20's to mid 30's so it's been warmer.   My wife thinks I've gone off the deep end, but it's been fun trying to get the battery level and mileage up. 

 

I hope everyone has a very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous new year. 

 

Happy Holidays!

 

the last two days it has been 46F or warmer.  Raining heavily now and dropping temps arriving. 










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