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HVB cooling problems

hvb cooling fan

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37 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 10:14 AM

Update:

 

The car's HVB now dropped to 78F.  Its 59F inside.  Fan running at 1000.  I cannot feel any cold air outside of the car indicating some venting.  I did find two modules on the inside of the bumper both left and right that are quite hot.  Not sure what they are for.  Nearby are what appears to be vents with rubber flaps, but I have never been able to detect any air flowing out of those.  The nature of the vent flaps tells me they are one way directional to the outside only.  Not sure if they ever get used.

 

-=>Raja.









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#22 OFFLINE   MaxLB

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Posted 26 May 2018 - 04:28 PM

The rubber vent flaps are present on every modern car, they let the air out of the cabin that is brought in by the HVAC system.  They are not specific to PHEV or BEV vehicles.  I've actually had the opportunity drive next to more than one car that was missing its rear bumper cover and I could actually see the flaps partially open, relieving air from the cabin.


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#23 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 04:19 AM

I think the car uses cabin air to circulate around the HVB.  Or so it seems.

 

So a little food for thought.  Yesterday I was driving and it was hot, 91F outside.  The HVB started out around 78F if I recall correctly and by afternoon it was up to 98F.  I drove several hours around the city and it didn't start to drop until after the sun set.  I was not using AC with the windows open it was not too hot inside the car, but the ambient temp is hot so the battery is not cooling much.  I didn't charge the car and drove most of the time in hybrid mode but the battery temp still rose.

 

Last night I got home late and the battery temp had dropped back to 84F.  Slowing cooling as I was still driving when the outside temps had dropped back to 71F.  I let it rest and this morning it was 78F.  I plugged it in and after about 3 hours and up to 50% charge level the temp had risen to 84F.

 

I rolled up all the windows, turned on the AC on Auto and 60F and let the car run while plugged in.  The temp since then has dropped to 80F as the internal car temperature is down to 62 now.  Its now only charging around 0.8 amp versus around 3.5 amps with the car off.  Still charging slowly, but the fact that the car is on the HVB fan is running and the cold internal temps are helping to cool the battery.  It is 92F outside right now.

 

If you don't care about wasting electricity, you can cool the HVB this way.  You're not charging fast, but cooling nonetheless.  Just thought you might like to know.

 

Let me check on it one more time...

 

Internal temperature 59F, HVB fan speed 1000, HVB temperature 80F.  HVB at 52%.

 

-=>Raja.

 

Welcome to my world Raja. We have had a lot of 90º high temps lately. I always use the AC in hot weather. The AC is very efficient and I am willing to used the power needed to be comfortable although I don't think its helping much to cool the HVB. With this hot weather I am limiting charging to once per day. EV is only used where it is most efficient and I don't try to use the whole charge if the HVB is getting to hot, even though I drive a minimum of 60 miles a day. I have been holding the HVB Tempt to under 100ºf. I have also started delaying charging until the HVB cools off some. The biggest problem I have this time of year is that the HVB temp is usually 10ºf above the ambient outside temp when I start out in the mornings.  

I have struggled with the hot weather every year from May through September. Cooling the HVB is a continuing challenge. The Scan Gauge is indispensable in keeping me aware of the HVB temp at all times. I am having good results preventing HVB capacity damage.

 

Tom



#24 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:57 AM

Hi Tom:

 

I tried the AC thing yesterday.  It helped to cool down the HVB if the car is plugged in the garage and the AC is set to 60F using 120v charging so its not charging the battery much.  

 

But once I pulled out the temp of the battery rose no matter what, even though the cabin was at 71F outside it was 91F and it was cloudy to boot and the HVB temp rose to 95F.  The day before without AC with with sunshine also at 91F outside the car's HVB rose to 98F.  So goes with my thoughts that the AC is for your comfort but doesn't do a whole lot to cool the HVB.  You can get a very similar effect by opening the windows and airing the car out.  Best thing is for the cabin to be as cool as possible, so at night leaving the windows open helps more than rolling them up and holding the inside car temp to a higher temp.

 

Today the HVB is back down to 82F.  I did charge it overnight starting at 4am and asked the wife to unplug it when she woke up around 7 but she forgot...!  Anyway now its charged so I got to go drive it and use it up, can't leave it sit full.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 27 May 2018 - 08:59 AM.


#25 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 08:14 PM

More details:

 

So today its in the 50's out and this afternoon the HVB was at 80F when I left the house.  Even though I was driving the same like the last 2 days, the temp of the HVB kept dropping to 78, then 77 and slowly down to 71F.  Tonight on the way home I was using the ICE as the HVB was practically done (about 20% left in it) and the temp was 71 on the HVB.  I decided to roll up the windows and turn up the heat at its 49 outside.  Not even within a 1/2 hour the cabin temp was up to 69.8 and the HVB fan had shut off.  Not only that, I watched the HVB temp rise to 73 and then to 75F.  This all happened fairly quickly.

 

Moral of the story, if you decide to turn on the heat to warm yourself up, also expect that you will be warming up the HVB.  Not such a good thing I suppose if you're trying to keep your battery cooler.  Tomorrow I need to go to a BBQ for memorial day and I plugged the car in to charge up at 4am.  

 

So instead of starting with the HVB at 71 or maybe less when I got home, now I'm at 75F...Silly me wanting to get warm!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 27 May 2018 - 08:15 PM.


#26 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:36 PM

On one occasion, the HVB was relatively warm and so was the battery cooling inlet temperature as shown on FORScan. I turned on the A/C to bring the cooling inlet temperature down. The cabin temperature came down but the battery cooling inlet temperature did not.

Shown in the picture here are some panels that I cut out from foam board to block the sun when there is no shade. I’ll be modifying one of them to fit my solar powered fan. The solar panel can also be used to charge the 12 V battery.

Attached Files


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#27 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:53 PM

Today, I used a smoke machine to determine that the airflow for the charging circuit cooling fan which is located on the right rear of the vehicle, takes the air from the right rear tire well on the outside and pushes it out through Electronics and into the cabin. The flow of air can be felt by folding the right rear seat forward to about 45° angle and reaching down behind the seat there’s a plastic flap where the air blows out downward from behind the flap.

#28 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:03 PM

Interesting to see, I went and looked at my car, its plugged in but not charging until 4am.  The charging circuit fan is running and blowing cool air.  I put my hand between the seat and the plastic and I could feel it inside there.  That's why I take off the HVB disconnect cover to let that heat out.  When charging that air gets hot, and then that hot air can get sucked into the HVB cooling fans and it can warm up the HVB also.  Seen that too.  

 

Edit:  Have to add this...so I just looked at the car again, the charging circuit fan runs all the time, but the charging circuit is not active so its just blowing cool air into the car, that's it.  However, the HVB fan is not running, and the HVB is sitting at 84F.  In the garage its about 78F.  So its kinds stupid that the charging circuit fan is running when its not charging, and the HVB fan is not running when it could be cooling down the HVB before charging at 4am.  Doh!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 01 June 2018 - 09:28 PM.


#29 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:29 AM

So I woke up thinking we got most of this figured out:

 

When charging the car takes outside air as it assumes inside air will be hotter (example baking in the sun) to cool the charging circuit and blows that exhaust hot air into the car behind the right rear seat.

When running the can takes in inside air from the top left and right vents to blow on the HVB and cool it as it assumes the AC might be running and the air inside could be cooler than outside.  Well I guess it doesn't assume but it runs the fan if the air inside is about 7 degrees cooler than the air outside.

 

Now the final question, where does the HVB cooling air exhaust to?  I don't think its outside.  Does it come back to the same spot unit the rear right seat or somewhere else?  Can you use the smoke machine to confirm?

 

-=>Raja.



#30 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 06:03 PM

Still waiting on the answer, where does the exhaust air for the HVB fan go?

 

I got home tonight, fan was running.  I left the car on so it stays running.  I checked under the rear seat, no air felt, that's the charging circuit fan there.  I could hear the HVB fan hum, I got under the car and checked both left and right vents (ones with rubber flaps), I don't really feel any flow there.

 

So, where does it go?

 

-=>Raja.



#31 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:20 PM

I'll check with smoke machine tomorrow.  I believe it comes out at the back but inside the cabin.  I'll try and get a video.



#32 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 06:14 AM

You got me excited about the smoke machine and finding out the flow of the HVB cooling air.  I'm waiting and checking here daily....!!

 

-=>Raja.



#33 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 09:54 AM

Here is the video showing where the cooling air goes in and exits for the HVB.  Note, that the car is charging and the charging fan and the HVB cooling fan were running.  To run the HVB cooling fan, I used a scanner and FORScan software on a laptop to activate the fan and it was set to about 2000 rpm.  In the first video, the fan exit is shown without the plastic cover piece over the fan outlet:

 

 

The second video shows the smoke exit with the plastic cover in place:

 

 

I repeated the smoke test for the charging cooling fan by injecting some smoke at the rear wheel well.  However, this time the smoke did not appear inside the car.  I suppose because the temperature today is cooler 15 C or 60 F and I had the doors open.  In any case, here is the video from the previous test.

 

https://youtu.be/dm2pd6kI5xA


Edited by RickOzone, 06 June 2018 - 10:57 AM.

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#34 OFFLINE   MaxLB

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 04:59 PM

I would assume that when in motion the hot air from the battery fan would leave the cabin via the two rubber flap vents on either side of the rear area (assuming the HVAC system is running, gotta push air in in order for air to go out!).  I sort of suspected this was how the system operated.  I used to run my HVAC in recirc mode all the time, but it seemed like the battery was always hot, even when I had the A/C on.  I've since stopped using recirc and the battery seems to be running cooler.



#35 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 06 June 2018 - 10:26 PM

Thank you for the videos Rick!!  So its interesting to see the air exits on the bottom left but seems to just blow inside the plastic in the latch area.  I'm also wondering if the air exits from the rubber flaps that Max is talking about though I have not seen that yet.  Maybe I need to roll up the windows and blast the fan inside so see if it compresses the air in the car and caused some to leak out.  Will try that now...

 

BINGO -- THAT'S IT!!!  When the air is blowing if you close all the windows (they have to be up) then the air will blow out the vents with the rubber flaps on the left and right side.  Select recirculate on the fan and no more air blows out.  Open a window and no air blows out.  With the car closed up you can also keep air leaking out the door handles.

 

This is very valuable information which we can use to keep the battery cool in hot weather.  AC and NO recirculate is the best option.

 

Rick, if possible I need one more test.  Windows up, vent on (doesn't have to be AC, with no recirculate.  Smoke machine on inside the car, does the smoke exit out the left and right flaps that are up inside the bumper area?  I think you need a remote trigger for the smoke machine, maybe you can run a wire with a push button to the outside of the car under the door (close the door on the wire) so you can keep the windows shut to compress the car.

 

Thank you!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 06 June 2018 - 10:27 PM.


#36 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 04:41 PM

I did a short test with the smoke machine inside the cabin and the charger fan running. I expected to see some smoke come out from the right side wheel well but I did not. I’m not sure if the temperature conditions were right for the charger to bring outside air in at that time. I’ll try to repeat this another day.

#37 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 05:10 PM

Were all the windows shut?  I thought we determined that the charging circuit fan takes air from outside and bring it in behind the rear right seat after it goes over the electronics.  You said the pickup is somewhere under the right rear wheel well.  Not sure where the exhaust is, might be the same as before, left and right sides behind the bumper.  My car is charging now I could wait a little while until the fan starts going stronger (I just plugged it) and if its fast I'll roll up and windows and see if I can feel exhaust air on those vents by the bumper.

 

A couple of days ago it was 80F and I was driving around Boston.  I got the HVB up to 84F not bad just using it for slow speeds in the city.  Windows were down.  I decided to roll up the windows and turn on the AC as I was getting on the highway shortly.  Not a few minutes later the battery temp actually went up to 86 instead of dropping.  I thought it might drop but it didn't.  Looked like the additional constant load from the AC didn't help to drop its temperature.  It seemed to go up shortly after the HVB battery fan kicked in.  For the record I never went on the highway due to traffic, but I did run the car in EV later mode.  Eventually it rose some more to 91F and only started dropping after I shut off the AC and rolled all the windows down.  But the sun had set just about and it was starting to get cooler outside.

 

By the time I got home it was closer to midnight, and the temp of the HVB had dropped back down to 84F.  OAT was around 66F and internal temperature of the car showed 71F even though the windows were open.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 09 June 2018 - 05:14 PM.


#38 OFFLINE   RickOzone

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Posted 09 June 2018 - 06:21 PM

During the internal smoke test the windows were up. 

 

While charging the inlet air for the charging fan can come from outside or inside presumably dependent on the temperatures.  The video from my earlier post was with the cooling air being drawn from the outside.  

 

Here is a video showing the discharge with the smoke being added to the right inside vent.

 











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