Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

HVB cooling problems

hvb cooling fan

  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   chemicalkev

chemicalkev

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationOntario
  • Current Vehicle:2014 C-Max Energi

Posted 10 May 2018 - 11:46 AM

2014 CMax, 230 000 km

 

My HVB gets hot during 240v charging.  The charging cycles on and off (say 30 sec on, 20 sec off).  Once the outside temperature rises above 15C, it starts to do this, and gets much worse with higher temperatures.  It will take 3 hours to charge at 18 C, and 4 hours at 25C.  At 30C, the system will produce a temperature error.  I had Ford look for the problem.  The first time they said it was dog hair, they cleaned it out, and no change.  The second time they said it needed a software update, and no change.  After $400 and suffering without my car for days, I gave up on Ford showing any competence of figuring it out and have suffered with it for over a year.'

 

I recently took everything apart.  There is a minor amount of dog hair, mostly in areas not directly involved with air flow (around air flow tube, not in)  but nothing blocking anything or impeding air flow.  The fan on the left works.  The fan on the right spins clockwise (photo 15_00_01), but doesn't seem to push air out of the car.  Air is coming out of the inlet (probably just from the rotation of the fan, even though the blades are meant to pull air), but nothing is coming out of the outlet (the vent on the outside of the cabin), between the body and the cabin on the back right side (square vent with rubber flaps, photo 15_10_24).

 

 

Does anyone have a diagram showing the air flow?  Just to confirm, the fan on the right side (photo 16_30_49) is meant to eject air to the exterior of the vehicle?  I think that fan is plugged.  Does anyone have instructions on how to remove that fan?  I can get at the fan, undo the bolts, but I don't know how to free it.  It is secured to the outside of the vehicle via the exterior vent.  The available instructions for removing the HVB just say "remove fan" and not how to do it.  Where exactly does each fan move air?

Attached Files









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted 12 May 2018 - 06:35 PM

Have you checked the battery temperature with a scanner?  One of the posts from long ago indicated that the fan on the right is to cool the electronics.  That could mean that it cools the charger circuitry.  Your symptoms would support this in that if the right side fan is not working then the electronics would probably over heat and cool quickly compared to the HVB.  The heating and cooling of the HVB would not happen so rapidly as it has a large mass.  With the Forscan app, you can monitor many different temperatures and faults in the BECM.  Scanners are relatively inexpensive now and the software is free on Windows and less than $10 on the phone.

 

As for the fan on the left, this one is to cool the battery.  It draws the air in from the cabin and it exits at the bottom back.  It is possible to test this fan with the Forscan app for windows.  You can set the speed with the app upto about 3000 rpm.

 

See this thread for more info:  http://fordcmaxenerg...-cooling/page-3

Attached Files


Edited by RickOzone, 12 May 2018 - 07:40 PM.

  • ptjones likes this

#3 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,974 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 13 May 2018 - 08:03 AM

Apparently, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, the HVB cooling always draws from inside the cabin?

 

Then on the other end it looks like it exhausts outside the car or does it just circulate back inside the car?

 

Due to taking air from inside the car, it seems most logical that you want the windows open while you charge in the summer, as the charging circuit gets hot while charging and blows hot air inside the car.  You can feel this coming out if you remove the hatch behind the rear passenger seat where the HVB disconnect plug is.  The fan for cooling the charging circuit goes faster and faster as that temp comes up, and it goes up quicker on 240v than 120v.

 

So charging makes heat, and then the heat is taken in like a blow dryer to warm up the battery further.  I noticed that the battery temp goes up quicker if charging than if just sitting around, give the surrounding air is warmer than the battery.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 13 May 2018 - 08:05 AM.


#4 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 310 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:29 PM

Charging effects all depend on ambient temperature and Level 1 or Level 2.

For example, at the end of a long trip, my HVB was at 1% SOC and 93F. At an ambient temp of 56F, I just charged on L2 to 34% SOC before picking up dinner, and the HVB went down to 89F already.

Try that when it’s 90F out, and the HVB will still be at 93F, and in that scenario, opening the windows is almost mandatory.

Rick

Edited by P=E/t, 13 May 2018 - 01:30 PM.


#5 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 310 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 May 2018 - 01:39 PM

And because of that fan that runs whilst charging, the HVB cools faster on L1 or L2 than with not-charging, when the ambient temp is somewhere around 60 or below.

Not that we shouldn’t let our battery “rest” when we can, but if it’s hot, it will cool fast with that fan on. Also, as I indicated elsewhere, many observations have shown that the HVB is sort of “heat labile” immediately after charging. In other words, if you’ve just charged a lot and the charge cycle ended less than half an hour ago or so, you’re going to see more rapid battery temp rise than if you had finished charging several hours ago. Given equivalent routes and driving styles, that is. It’s a strong effect.

Rick

#6 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:04 AM

Here is my solar powered car cooler, see pictures below,  to help keep the C-Max cabin cool when it is parked in the sun.  I intend to also connect the solar panel to the 12 V battery to keep it charged up.  I ordered a flexible solar panel and controller that should arrive in a few weeks.  Also, I'm considering putting some fans at the cooling duct inlets to help cool the battery directly when needed. 

 

There are some solar powered coolers available on the Internet but these mingy units just don't have enough power. 

Attached Files



#7 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,974 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 15 May 2018 - 10:49 AM

Does it work?  How much of a temp change do you see?  You should test it with the HVB temp to see if there is any difference.

 

I'm thinking parking in the shade would be better than parking in the sun with this.  Just my 2 cents thought...

 

-=>Raja.


  • ptjones likes this

#8 OFFLINE   eppyphotog

eppyphotog

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 53 posts
  • Region:U.S. Mountain
  • LocationPhoenix AZ
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max 303A

Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:50 PM

I ran a flexible duct from my a/c line in the attic to the garage 2 years ago. Now that "Summer" is here in Arizona, this sits in the car with the right rear seat folded down and the access panel removed. Wondering if the duct is in the right place?     RAJA?       I only try to charge in the overnight hours when the battery has had a chance to cool a bit in my garage. I have still lost over .5kW hour of capacity in 5 years with 38k total miles, 28K that I put on the vehicle (bought used -off lease) and about 11-12k miles of that 28k is electric.  I'm at 99.9 MPG over the 28K miles right now.
a/c duct for battery

  • fotomoto likes this

#9 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted Yesterday, 09:45 AM

That is one serious way to cool the battery. I’d suggest directing the air into the inlet vents just behind the rear seats and keep the disconnect access panel closed. That is to push the cool air through the designed cooling path. Ideally, split the inlet duct into two lines and add adapters to fit into the top of grill inlets.

 

Probably the most important time to have a cool battery is when it is at or near full charge.


Edited by RickOzone, Yesterday, 01:07 PM.

  • ptjones likes this

#10 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,974 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted Yesterday, 10:34 PM

I put my rear seat down and remove the access panel while opening the windows in the garage.  The access panel lets out the heat from the battery charging circuit, not to do with the HVB itself.  That heat if not let out will fester in there and build up more, come out the bottom of the seat some and warm up the HVB even more if not released.

 

The fact that you live in Phoenix, AZ is the main reason for losing capacity.  By using the AC in the garage you have most likely limited the capacity loss, it could be alot worse, trust me on that.  Some people lost over a kwh + in 1 summer.  Being in the heat outside gets the battery hot.  The longer it stays hot, the worse it is.

 

You can duct the AC into the vents to help cool the battery more, but really doesn't matter if you close the windows and "freeze" the car with the AC its the same thing.   The cooling of the HVB draws air through those vents.  However, I'm not sure that the fan for the HVB runs if the car is off.  It runs when the car is ON, but when off the fan that's running is for the charging circuit.  That fact in fact warms up the car which in turn helps to warm up the HVB plus the fact that its taking a charge.  (helps to warm it up quicker) unless you open the windows and let the heat out of the charging circuit as much as possible.  Also 240v charging heats up the charging circuit alot more than 120v, you can feel the difference on average 240v the air feels like a blow dryer, 120v the air feels more warm than hot.

 

Hope this helps.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, Today, 06:59 AM.










Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: hvb, cooling fan

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·