Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

Question about Avg Km/Full Charge (Energi 2017 MTL, QC)


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   SELT

SELT

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 14 posts
  • Region:Canada Quebec
  • LocationMontreal
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Energy Titanium

Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:12 AM

Hi guys

Worrisome question, and would like your opinion.

 

I'm finally getting over the avg 60 km /Full Charge, as the winter dies down (hopefully), actually maxing out at avg 75 km/Full Charge a few times.

I'm worried that as the hot weather approaches, charging & depleting that range will increase battery degradation =(

Should I just keep my avg Range between 50-60 km/Full Charge, to keep battery degradation at a minimum?

Of course I put into practice all the driving / charging techniques Raja, Paul and others have shared in this awesome forum, and would like to keep my 2017 Energi as long as possible, with the minimum battery degration possible as well.

Thanks for your thoughts.
JR

 

Attached Files









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   spirilis

spirilis

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationMaryland
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:2017 C-Max Energi SE Kona Blue

Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:41 AM

@rbort has tips on this.  I confess I haven't read them all yet.

 

Basically limit EV propulsion to 2 bars if possible (and especially when it's hot), try not to charge in the heat, any time you know you're going to blow through your EV range and use gasoline, try to get the gasoline engine warmed up early (using EV Later or one other way I found, when parked with transmission lever in 'P' and vehicle on, floor the accelerator in EV Auto mode -- gasoline engine will start & begin to warm up) and use gasoline propulsion (EV Later) when going up inclines or high speeds, basically choose to use gasoline in the situations where it's most efficient and kick back to EV Auto during the milder driving conditions.


Edited by spirilis, 02 April 2018 - 06:42 AM.

  • ptjones likes this

#3 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

Tom_NC_1

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,052 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNC
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi 302a

Posted 02 April 2018 - 06:45 AM

I have had some battery degradation and it was caused by overheating the HVB. The loss was determined after a hot summer in 2015 when the HVB reached max temperatures on several occasions. Once this lesson was learned I instituted an active monitoring of the HVB temperature using a ScanGauge. The HVB gets hot from both charging and rapid use from acceleration and regen. The gentler the HVB is used the battery for the battery. 

 

A major consideration is the outside temperature. The hotter it gets outside the less external charging that can be done without overheating the HVB. I have also noticed that letting the car sit overnight will not necessarily be enough time for the HVB to cool down. Where I live if overnight lows are 80ºf(26.7ºC) charging of the HVB should not be performed at all.

 

The car will automatically limit use of the HVB at 113ºf(45ºC) but this was not enough to prevent HVB capacity loss. My goal in activity monitoring the HVB temp is to keep the temp below 105ºf(40.5ºC) and when possible aim for 102ºf(39ºC). 

 

Here is the general rule I follow at the outside temperatures listed.

At 50ºf(10ºC) charging as often as desired.

At 70ºf(21ºC) Charging more than once a day should only be done with HVB temperature monitoring.

At 80ºf(26.7ºC) Charge only once per day.

At 90ºf(32ºC) Stop charging the HVB Or limit charging if actively monitoring the HVB.

 

During times of high temperature I normally run the car in Hybrid mode only. 

 

Since I had the HVB degradation in 2015 and started following these practices there as been no additional lost HVB capacity.

 

Tom



#4 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 499 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Honda Clarity PHEV

Posted 02 April 2018 - 08:43 AM

@rbort has tips on this.  I confess I haven't read them all yet.
 
Basically limit EV propulsion to 2 bars if possible (and especially when it's hot), try not to charge in the heat, any time you know you're going to blow through your EV range and use gasoline, try to get the gasoline engine warmed up early (using EV Later or one other way I found, when parked with transmission lever in 'P' and vehicle on, floor the accelerator in EV Auto mode -- gasoline engine will start & begin to warm up) and use gasoline propulsion (EV Later) when going up inclines or high speeds, basically choose to use gasoline in the situations where it's most efficient and kick back to EV Auto during the milder driving conditions.


Flooring the accelerator forces the engine to start running in maintenance mode for an oil change. I vaguely recall not to leave the car in this mode, (or am I mixing things up with the Prius)!

#5 OFFLINE   spirilis

spirilis

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationMaryland
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:2017 C-Max Energi SE Kona Blue

Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:37 AM

Flooring the accelerator forces the engine to start running in maintenance mode for an oil change. I vaguely recall not to leave the car in this mode, (or am I mixing things up with the Prius)!

Not sure, I only did that once a minute before we left the house, and it did its normal "warm up, then shut off and switch to EV mode" thang.



#6 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 03 April 2018 - 06:38 AM

I would recommend getting a ScanGaugeII or some other OBD gauge   to monitor HVB temps. Then you know for sure what's going on, I'm not big on guessing. :smile2:

 

Paul



#7 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,952 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:03 AM

Scan gage is a good idea.  First Cmax I never used it but I managed very well following my instincts of what's good and what's bad and my HVB was still putting out at least 5.4kwh at 73k miles and 4 years later.  This time around I have a scan gage and I may be even more strict with battery usage in the summer maybe don't even go over 86F on the battery, what the heck just turn hybrid and burn some gas in the summer and use the battery more in the winter.  We'll see.

 

-=>Raja.



#8 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 03 April 2018 - 02:36 PM

Attached File  ScanGaugeII.JPG   111.39KB   0 downloads  Here is my ScanGaugeII with SOC %, HVB temp, Trans Fluid Temp(TFT) and Cylinder head water temp(WT).  The maximum SOC for Hybrid is 65% normally, sometimes 70.5% and lowest 32%.  This weekend with temps pushing 80*F my HVB temp hit 102*F and I was getting 59 and 57.5 mpg on the FWY.  I think I've seen 108 HVB temps going across the AZ dessert and I don't think that hurt my HVB much.  The stuff I read about LI Batteries you can damage them charging when close to fully charged when hot. It doesn't take very long for my HVB to get upto 85*F driving around town. It would seem to me you could run the HVB to atleast 100*F without any problems. Hopefully you guys can watch your HVB temps and come up with a plan. :smile2:

 

Paul



#9 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

Tom_NC_1

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,052 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNC
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi 302a

Posted 04 April 2018 - 06:48 AM

With warm weather starting I have already had times when I limit charging to control the HVB temperature. My goal of keeping the HVB temp below 105ºf has worked well at preserving the pack capacity. Most of the time I try to be achieve a more  conservative 102ºf maximum HVB temp goal. My problem with lost capacity in 2015 occurred after the HVB repeatedly hitting the 113ºf max that the car uses to impose limits ability to use kWh when there is available power in the pack. Had they set the HVB temp limit lower, it may prevented many capacity problem. Of course there would have been a chorus of complaints about the ICE coming on more often with the lower HVB temp limit. Ford put themselves in a no win situation with the inadequate HVB cooling method chosen for this car. Hopefully they learned something for future EV car plans. That may be wishful thinking on my part.

 

Tom


  • ptjones likes this

#10 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,952 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 08 April 2018 - 08:06 PM

So far so good for me.  The battery has maxed out at 78F with all day driving, then even with more driving at night temp dropped as the heat of the sun was gone and the colder air returned.

 

I will keep monitoring temps to see what works and what doesn't but even with eyes closed on temps use your common sense to keep the battery from getting hot.  All the things I mentioned before in the posts on how to prolong battery life.  You can do it if you take the time to think about what's good and what's bad.

 

I will let you guys know if I find anything interesting to report.

 

-=>Raja.



#11 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:20 AM

So far so good for me.  The battery has maxed out at 78F with all day driving, then even with more driving at night temp dropped as the heat of the sun was gone and the colder air returned.

 

I will keep monitoring temps to see what works and what doesn't but even with eyes closed on temps use your common sense to keep the battery from getting hot.  All the things I mentioned before in the posts on how to prolong battery life.  You can do it if you take the time to think about what's good and what's bad.

 

I will let you guys know if I find anything interesting to report.

 

-=>Raja.

Apparently FORD didn't think it was necessary to keep the Hybrid HVB as cool, I see 80's - 90's all the time if I drive 15 miles or more and on 80+*F days I hit low 100's on the FWY. :headscratch: 

 

Paul  



#12 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,952 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 09 April 2018 - 07:24 AM

Paul, you have a hybrid battery only, not a big HVB.  If you damage it which you probably have it doesn't matter as much as you go from being able to drive 2 miles on battery to 1.5 miles, not a huge deal or anything large to notice.  But if you had a full HVB, and you go from 30 miles range to 20 miles, its a big deal.

 

-=>Raja.



#13 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 640 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:31 AM

Paul, you have a hybrid battery only, not a big HVB.  If you damage it which you probably have it doesn't matter as much as you go from being able to drive 2 miles on battery to 1.5 miles, not a huge deal or anything large to notice.  But if you had a full HVB, and you go from 30 miles range to 20 miles, its a big deal.

 

-=>Raja.

I don't think my range has changed at all, just the regen going downhill happens quicker and I have seen 70.5% SOC a number of times and it use to only get 65% SOC. :headscratch: The car is 5.5 yrs old anyway running strong. :smile2:  

 

Paul 



#14 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,952 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 09 April 2018 - 10:58 AM

Paul,

 

We talked about this before and you said yourself that you possibly lost some range when I pointed it out to you in another post.  Bottom line is that its not possible not to lose any capacity out of a battery that's 5 years old and has 160+k miles on it.  The reason that your battery charges quicker is because its unable to take a charge as well as it used to.  Just like the HVB when new it might take 5 hours 45 minutes to charge up, but when worn out it can take less than 5 hours.  Also the voltage goes higher when you put it on charge as its not absorbing the charge and the charging shuts off, but in the end of the day you have less in there to use than you used to.

 

So, I guarantee it, fill it up to 70% as you can now and try to drive on a flat as long as you can before the engine starts.  When the car was new, at 65% maybe you could stretch it past 2 miles, now that the car is 5+ years old, you won't even make 2 miles.  Try it.  You'll see what I mean.  People that have no understanding driving Toyota hybrids always say oh the battery lasts the entire life of the car, but it doesn't,  I was in California 3 years later than I was last time and drove my brother's Prius hybrid just like I did 3 years ago.  I can tell you can't go as far on battery as I used to last time I was there.  He just drives it and says its great, doesn't really know the difference.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 09 April 2018 - 11:02 AM.









0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·