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Hills killing my range.


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   MVArtMan

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Posted 18 January 2018 - 08:41 PM

I'm really liking my "new" 2016 w 6.2K miles.  Had it about 10 days and have charged it religiously for the daily 8 mile drive into town.  Having researched the C-Max for years before purchasing, I was pretty sure I'd be able to go back and forth in EV only.  That has not been the case as I always run out on the way back home.  I guess the Ozark hills pull to much juice and don't give enough back on the way down.  Averaging around 14 miles per charge.  If you're wondering, I'm setting a go time and not running the heater either (only seat warmers).  It has been bitterly cold, at least for Arkansas, the past few days, with lows in the low single digits. Does this seem normal?









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#2 OFFLINE   ShoulderThingThatGoesUP

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:38 AM

Yeah, that's not too surprising. What speed are you going? If you're going fast enough, going downhill doesn't do much because of air drag. I imagine you'll be able to do it all on battery power with warmer temperatures.



#3 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:43 AM

I think the cold is doing more to limit your range than the hills, although they certainly factor in.  Once it warms up to 20s or so, I imagine you'd be able to make your commute.



#4 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:32 AM

Hills definitely kill range.  And if you're traveling at any sort of speed up hills, it will definitely kill it.

That is a pretty short range without using heaters though.

Sounds to me like you're travelling at 55mph+ speeds and have some pretty decent elevation you're climbing.  That will do it.



#5 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:00 AM

My rule:  whatever your daily need is buy double that range and you just might have enough juice in most circumstances for that daily need.  I need 10 urban miles so the Energi even years down the road with some range degradation still covers it 100%. 

 

To go pure BEV, I'll need one with 150 "worst case" miles so that means about 300 miler which are way too expensive for me right now.  Worst case:  5-8 years down the road it will still need to be able to do 150 miles @ 75mph into a 20-30mph headwind with full HVAC (heat or a/c).  



#6 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:12 AM

To go pure BEV, I'll need one with 150 "worst case" miles so that means about 300 miler which are way too expensive for me right now.  Worst case:  5-8 years down the road it will still need to be able to do 150 miles @ 75mph into a 20-30mph headwind with full HVAC (heat or a/c).  

 

Yeah, a Bolt couldn't do that today.  Your cheapest option is a long range Model 3.  But there will be more options in a few more years, possibly even from Ford.

 

https://insideevs.co...les-in-5-years/



#7 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:11 AM

Yeah, a Bolt couldn't do that today.  

 

 

Yeah but the Bolt is close @ 190 miles @ 70 mph with light HVAC according to one report.  I'm disappointed it doesn't come with ACC at least as an option.    I won't need to purchase for a couple of years so it will be interesting to see what's on the table by then.



#8 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:34 AM

Depends on temperature.  No way will the Bolt do 190 miles @ 70 mph when it's below freezing, even without heat.

 

I'm taking mine on a long trip next weekend.  360 miles round-trip, mostly highway (I-90).  I'll see what the true consumption is for winter time highway cruising.  The above is true for summer time with A/C.  But A/C in an EV is much less of an energy hog than resistance heat.



#9 OFFLINE   MVArtMan

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 04:29 PM

Wow.  It warmed up to 50 today and I got home with 4 miles to spare after running errands in town.  23(ish) miles of EV which is about what I was expecting.  So it was the cold, not the hills, that killed the range.    


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#10 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 06:34 PM

Actually it’s the cold AND the hills that kill EV range...

The cold makes it harder to roll, everything is stiff the cold oil in the transmission is not helping...

-=>Raja.

#11 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:08 AM

Cold ambient temperature decreases range for at least the following reasons, and there are probably more—

-Lithium ion batteries hold less energy at cold temps than at warm. At 10-20F, the total energy might be as little as *half* of the energy held at 80F.
-The transmission fluid is cold and has greater friction, as does every other moving component in the car. And without heat coming off the ICE (love saying that), the transmission fluid only heats up through the friction of the moving parts. Takes a long time.
-Air resistance (drag) is greater in cold air than in warm. And remember—air resistance increases with the square of one’s speed.
-Rolling resistance of the tires is greater in cold.
-To my knowledge, no one has considered this on the forum, but lithium ion batteries don’t accept charge very well at internal temps below the freezing point of water. Thus, regen is ineffective in cold temps. Until the HVB warms up through driving.

Rick

#12 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 07:24 AM

As for the hills themselves, there is a way to soften their impact on range.

 

Electric motors have their highest torque as they start rotating from the stationary position. This tempts us EV drivers to mash the accelerator pedal; it's so fun! However, electric motors are also least efficient as they start rotating from a standstill. They just gobble energy from the battery if we hit them with a lot of current from a stop.

 

The way to increase range is to accelerate slowly. As Raja has shown in many posts here, this means using 2 bars max. What I would add to this on hills is, to really ease into the pedal when under 25 mph. Only 1 bar if you can, considering traffic. Then, as soon as you hit 20-25 mph, ease up to 2 or even 2.5 bars. If traffic lights and stop signs happen to be at the bottom of most of your hills, this technique will dramatically increase your range.

 

I also try not to power over the crest of hills. In fact, I often shift to N (which is simply "no regen") and coast up and over the crest of the hill. Also, N is useful going down hills because converting potential energy (altitude) to kinetic energy (speed) is 100% efficient, minus rolling resistance losses. Any time we use the accelerator pedal, it is at best 90% efficient, maybe less. So, when traffic allows it, I accelerate down significant hills in N just until I hit the right speed, and then go into D and slowly regen with the brake as needed. Or use the speed-holding function, or use L if there's another stop sign or red light coming up.

 

I live in a land of short steep hills and vast numbers of stop signs and poorly timed traffic lights ....

 

Rick










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