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Question: Can the Hybrid System charge the Plug-in Battery?


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27 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:02 PM

Rick,

 

While you're in FL, try to keep the charge level +2% above the set point, and then every time you go over a "flyover" and the engine shuts off,.as soon as the road levels off fire it back up to keep the charge level from being used up.

 

I found that my 2013 Cmax would net 45 to 50mpg with the ICE running at 65-66mph, videos out there to see it.

 

In city streets I agree its much easier to yo yo your speed, but on the highway its crazy for me to do that back and forth all the time.

 

Marlowe, Paut (ptjones) does not have an Energi car, he's got a Cmax Hybrid meaning he is always is what we call EV later mode and doesn't have the option of 4 bars on the battery ever, its just 2 bars all the time.

 

If you are in AUTO, means to the car "use up all the HVB first, and then start the engine.  Do not run in this mode unless you intend not to start the engine.  Otherwise make sure you flip back and forth between auto when you want EV running and EV later when you want the engine to run.  Its not the right thing to do to use up all the battery first and then let the engine run, if you know for sure you're going to need the engine before the trip is over.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 13 October 2017 - 03:03 PM.








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#22 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

marlowefamily

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 03:39 PM

ok, then, from what I can tell - ev auto was more useful in earlier year models where it switched from EV to ICE relatively easily...which allowed ptjones to use his trick to get high MPG.  However, at some point, ford switched the ev auto mode to prioritize to EV nearly all the time and it now rarely engages the ICE engine.  So, for recent model years, we should just have the car on EV now mode except for when we are on the freeway for non-small trips or going up a long hill? 



#23 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:52 PM

No Marlowe,

 

It all works the same as always, between auto, EV and ev later.

 

Auto uses the whole battery first, then uses the engine.  Auto starts the engine for more power if you floor the car.

 

EV Now uses the whole battery first, then expires with the battery and the system goes to Auto.  Engine will never start in EV now even if you floor it.

EV Now also lowers the threashold for starting the engine when you turn on heat in the winter, even while plugged in for example.

 

EV later saves the battery after using at least 5% off the top of a full charged battery.

 

-=>Raja.



#24 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 02:21 PM

Well, I've tried both ev later and ev auto on the freeway -- in general, ev auto might be more efficient, but I think ev later on the freeway is safer in order to minimize the chance of the battery overheating in the hot Southern California summer weather where I live, even if it costs me a few MPG.  As for city driving, there doesn't seem to be much difference between ev auto and ev now especially with ~40MPH driving, but if I'm manually switching to ev later on the freeway..I might as well manually switch to ev now when I'm on normal roads.  The only real difference is that EV now emphasizes more the car EV range on the display, but it's simple to switch back to empower mode. 


Edited by marlowefamily, 14 October 2017 - 02:22 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 03:30 PM

Rick,

 

While you're in FL, try to keep the charge level +2% above the set point, and then every time you go over a "flyover" and the engine shuts off,.as soon as the road levels off fire it back up to keep the charge level from being used up.

 

I found that my 2013 Cmax would net 45 to 50mpg with the ICE running at 65-66mph, videos out there to see it.

 

In city streets I agree its much easier to yo yo your speed, but on the highway its crazy for me to do that back and forth all the time.

 

Marlowe, Paut (ptjones) does not have an Energi car, he's got a Cmax Hybrid meaning he is always is what we call EV later mode and doesn't have the option of 4 bars on the battery ever, its just 2 bars all the time.

 

If you are in AUTO, means to the car "use up all the HVB first, and then start the engine.  Do not run in this mode unless you intend not to start the engine.  Otherwise make sure you flip back and forth between auto when you want EV running and EV later when you want the engine to run.  Its not the right thing to do to use up all the battery first and then let the engine run, if you know for sure you're going to need the engine before the trip is over.

 

-=>Raja.

You are right that I have a Hybrid, but I thought you said that EV Later was the same.  Doesn't change anything really, all the electricity comes from running the ICE so the more efficient you run it the better the MPG's. This is from Wikipedia: 

Gasoline (petrol) engines[edit]

Modern gasoline engines have a maximum thermal efficiency of about 25% to 50% when used to power a car.[citation needed] In other words, even when the engine is operating at its point of maximum thermal efficiency, of the total heat energy released by the gasolineconsumed, about 50-75% is rejected as heat without being turned into useful work, i.e. turning the crankshaft.[1] Approximately half of this rejected heat is carried away by the exhaust gases, and half passes through the cylinder walls or cylinder head into the engine cooling system, and is passed to the atmosphere via the cooling system radiator.[2] Some of the work generated is also lost as friction, noise, air turbulence, and work used to turn engine equipment and appliances such as water and oil pumps and the electrical generator, leaving only about 25-50% of the energy released by the fuel consumed available to move the vehicle.

At idle, the thermal efficiency is zero, since no usable work is being drawn from the engine. At low speeds, gasoline engines suffer efficiency losses at small throttle openings from the high turbulence and frictional (head) loss when the incoming air must fight its way around the nearly closed throttle; diesel engines do not suffer this loss because the incoming air is not throttled. At high speeds, efficiency in both types of engine is reduced by pumping and mechanical frictional losses, and the shorter period within which combustion has to take place. Engine efficiency peaks in most applications at around 75% of rated engine power, which is also the range of greatest engine torque (e.g. in most modern passenger automobile engines with a redline of about 6,000 RPM, maximum torque is obtained at about 4,500 RPM, and maximum engine power is obtained at about 6,000 RPM). At all other combinations of engine speed and torque, the thermal efficiency is less than this maximum.

 

Today I made another trip to NW Atlanta on I-85/I-285 and I watched the RPM's for 2Bar acceleration and it varied from 2,200 to 2,850 rpm's. There did seem to be a connection with higher rpm's and steeper grades.

 

Paul



#26 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 07:19 AM

The HVB tries to help the ICE when there is sufficient charge in it to maintain at  least 20mpg in the older models.  Once exhausted if the hill remains then the ICE does all the work and the MPG drop.

 

It is best to slow down going up inclines if you want to get the best MPG numbers.  Climbing a long steep grade at 65mph will burn more gas than climbing it at 50-55mph.  At the end of the day the lower the rpms and closer to 2k on the ICE the better.

 

-=>Raja.



#27 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 01:02 PM

So, apparently I was a little braindead last week in understanding what Raja and Paul were saying....I drove on a hilly highway over the weekend for an hour and definitely noticed that the car seemed to work better if I accelerated to slight above normal speed going uphill on the gas engine and then let the car switch from the gas engine to the electric and mostly coast when going downhill or in between small hills.   One difference that Ford does list though for the energi is that it's max electric speed is 85MPH compared to 62MPH for the hybrid.  That seems insane for the battery discharge rate, especially in hot weather.  I'm definitely going to keep the car in ev-later mode whenever I'm on the freeway.  I think, here in San Diego, that everyone looks at you funny if you drive under 70MPH and most cars are running 80MPH if there is no traffic.  If I tried to keep to 65MPH for efficiency, there might be issues.



#28 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted Yesterday, 04:50 PM

So, apparently I was a little braindead last week in understanding what Raja and Paul were saying....I drove on a hilly highway over the weekend for an hour and definitely noticed that the car seemed to work better if I accelerated to slight above normal speed going uphill on the gas engine and then let the car switch from the gas engine to the electric and mostly coast when going downhill or in between small hills.   One difference that Ford does list though for the energi is that it's max electric speed is 85MPH compared to 62MPH for the hybrid.  That seems insane for the battery discharge rate, especially in hot weather.  I'm definitely going to keep the car in ev-later mode whenever I'm on the freeway.  I think, here in San Diego, that everyone looks at you funny if you drive under 70MPH and most cars are running 80MPH if there is no traffic.  If I tried to keep to 65MPH for efficiency, there might be issues.

FYI the Hybrid also has Max EV speed of 85 mph, there was a software up date that changed 2013 CMAX Hybrids from 62mph to 85mph(GPS speed of 86mpg on my car) 85 mph is standard for 2014 and newer.

 

 

The HVB tries to help the ICE when there is sufficient charge in it to maintain at  least 20mpg in the older models.  Once exhausted if the hill remains then the ICE does all the work and the MPG drop.

 

It is best to slow down going up inclines if you want to get the best MPG numbers.  Climbing a long steep grade at 65mph will burn more gas than climbing it at 50-55mph.  At the end of the day the lower the rpms and closer to 2k on the ICE the better.

 

-=>Raja.

rbort , the reason your MPG's goes up by slowing down is the lowering of aerodynamic drag, not improvement of ICE efficiency.  I'm wondering if you forgot the info in my YouTube video. :smile2:http://fordcmaxenerg...-mileage/page-1

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, Yesterday, 04:53 PM.









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