Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

Question: Can the Hybrid System charge the Plug-in Battery?


  • Please log in to reply
27 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ScottChi

ScottChi

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 29 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationCary, NC USA
  • My C-MAX:2016
  • Current Vehicle:2016 C-Max Energi

Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

Hi Folks,

 

Apologies if this has come up before, I scanned recent posts and did some searches.

 

I have noticed when driving my 2016 C-MAX Energi that after the plug-in battery fully discharges, the dashboard indicator switches to the smaller image that indicates the hybrid battery level.  It never switches back to the plug-in battery symbol until I shut it down and use the recharger.

 

My question is, when the hybrid battery fills up from regenerated power during operation, is the hybrid regen system capable of recharging the plugin battery as well?  Or does any regenerated power go to waste after the hybrid battery is full?

 

This thought occurred to me recently because there's a very long downhill stretch when one drives from Asheville and Raleigh.  There are multiple signs warning about using low gears to avoid overheating the brakes, and pull-off safety barrel traps for runaway vehicles.

 

I had a 2nd gen Prius some years ago, and the only time I ever heard the hybrid cooling fans fire up was when I was rolling down those hills.

 

  Scott C. in NC









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   cr08

cr08

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ice Storm C-Max Energi

Posted 11 October 2017 - 10:57 AM

Normally once plug-in charge is used the car will remain in that hybrid portion of charge and cycle normally just like a hybrid C-Max would. Now in some specific cases, possibly like yours, such as long downhills, you can use the hill assist or low gear and given sufficient distance you can put enough regen charge back in to bring it back up to plug-in range. We took a road trip that went through Colorado this past summer and I was able to go from hybrid mode to a fully charged battery within the entire downhill stretch on hill assist alone. Now if you manage that and fill up the battery, the car will fire up the engine in zero-fuel mode to engine brake if using low gear or hill assist. Catch is with the Atkinson cycle engine in ours, it will not provide as much engine braking force as a traditional car and it will rev pretty high when doing so.

 

Now what I don't know offhand is how that regen charge is used up. Others may know specifics on that part.



#3 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

stolenmoment

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 259 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationBoston
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Maxwell Smart

Posted 11 October 2017 - 01:29 PM

BTW, it's one big battery, and the car goes into Hybrid mode when the battery gets below some fraction, maybe 10%?

 

I have managed to get the battery back above Hybrid mode on a downhill in Vermont, but the car didn't say so until I restarted it after shopping at the bottom of that hill.  Sounds like the above poster had a different experience on a much bigger hill, so perhaps there's a threshold that pushes it up over that while driving.



#4 OFFLINE   cr08

cr08

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ice Storm C-Max Energi

Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

BTW, it's one big battery, and the car goes into Hybrid mode when the battery gets below some fraction, maybe 10%?

 

I have managed to get the battery back above Hybrid mode on a downhill in Vermont, but the car didn't say so until I restarted it after shopping at the bottom of that hill.  Sounds like the above poster had a different experience on a much bigger hill, so perhaps there's a threshold that pushes it up over that while driving.

So just to verify did the 'hybrid' battery image on the dash remain but otherwise the car indicated it had went into the plug-in portion of the battery (ie: via MFT 'Leaf' screen)?



#5 OFFLINE   jdbob

jdbob

    Techo Geek

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 587 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationJohn Day, Oregon
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi

Posted 11 October 2017 - 02:22 PM

I've had mine go from hybrid mode back to normal mode numerous times. Most recently coming down from a cabin at 6000 feet it went from hybrid to nearly fully charged. In all cases the symbol on the left-hand screen changed from the hybrid symbol to normal.


  • dontfret likes this

#6 OFFLINE   Joewo

Joewo

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 25 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationOregon
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:CMax Energi

Posted 11 October 2017 - 07:14 PM

Hi Scott

 

We discussed this a while ago and Raja Rbort has some good videos showing how to recharge the battery using the gas engine. Basically the hybrid battery is engaged once it is charged 2% above its present state by using the gas engine.  This yo yo of 2% charge and then using the battery to drive the battery down is the hybrid mode in a nutshell  Simply choosing Battery Later once the gas engine starts allows the 2% level to be reset to its present higher state....and if you keep doing this and pumping the 2% higher once the engine kicks in you can effectively recharge the battery fully in these little steps.  But this takes a long trip with the correct type of geography to be driving.  You cannot do it in town but you really need the interstate and about 300 miles of very gently rolling hills.  I can pretty much recharge the battery driving from Portland Oregon to Seattle.  It is some work and it is a bit distracting and the decision as to whether this is a positive or negative to delay the use of the gas was up in the air.  

As far as recharging the battery on a hill from hybrid back to battery yes I have added 7 miles on moderate hills and gone back into energi mode by just touching the brakes enough to start recharging and using the hill assist or even popping into L when it is safe.  And yes going down a very steep driveway after recharging the battery to capacity results in a very unnerving engine rev which is quite confusing when it first happens.  There has been a ton of discussion on this combination of recharging in the past of course as it really is the magic of this car.

 

As an aside I got a 2014 CMax the same time my girlfriend got an Energi Fusion.  We found the CMax simply more comfortable and easier to fill up cargo on trips.  So after a year she got a 2016 Cmax.  So we have 2 Cmaxes..or 2 CMaxi.....and we absolutely love our cars. 

 

Enjoy!

Joe in Portland Oregon. 


  • GTIguy likes this

#7 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

stolenmoment

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 259 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationBoston
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Maxwell Smart

Posted 12 October 2017 - 04:20 AM

So just to verify did the 'hybrid' battery image on the dash remain but otherwise the car indicated it had went into the plug-in portion of the battery (ie: via MFT 'Leaf' screen)?

I don't usually use the Leaf screen, so I can't verify that.  Yes, IIRC I turned the car off with a very full Hybrid battery shown, and turned it on with either one or zero miles of EV range (two years ago, I've long forgotten the details).  That's why I suspect there's a threshold somewhere above miniscule...



#8 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,805 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 12 October 2017 - 05:30 AM

Anytime the hybrid battery is very close to full or full, you can switch back from auto to EV later and the battery will grow in size from the hybrid to the big one.  If you are going down a long mountain it won't switch to the big battery on its own until the battery is around 4% (doesn't switch at 0% when the hybrid is full from my experience).  Either way the only way to get back into a full battery is to go down a long hill.  It is impossible to get out of hybrid mode with the engine on flat roads.

 

Once out and able to be in EV later mode, you can charge the HVB with the engine by using my technique in the video I posted.  This worked well in the 2013 model I had and I suspect in the 2014 and 2015 models.  My 2017 and maybe even late 2016's the charging of the HVB from the engine is less aggressive, and the power threshold for the HVB is lower meaning the car wants to get off the engine sooner and go into battery while on hybrid mode.  Due to this its hard to get to +2% charge on the battery and keep the engine running.  It can still be done, but its harder and doesn't work as well as the engine charges the battery slower.

 

Ford improved the way things work so you get better MPG without having to keep the HVB up at +2% of the charge set point.  In the past if you let the car hyrbid on its own you actually lost MPG and the performance was worse due to constantly charging and discharging the HVB.  I have videos about that too.  Down the highway ideally you need to keep the engine running all the time and the battery at +2% for max mpg.

 

-=>Raja.
 


Edited by rbort, 12 October 2017 - 05:32 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 12 October 2017 - 02:53 PM

rbort, You need to check out my video again.  :smile2: To get  the best Fuel Economy in Hybrid Mode in a CMAX by using  EV to 15 MPH then accelerating at 2Bars on the Empower Display to 5 mph over desired speed let off gas and go into EV mode.   At 5 mph under desired speed accelerate at 2Bars again to 5 mph over desired speed and repeat. :smile2:  The ICE is most efficient at 2Bars( all the energy comes from the ICE) so to get the best MPG's you need to accelerate at 2 bars. On the FWY I average about 50% in EV. :smile2:  

http://fordcmaxenerg...-mileage/page-1

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 13 October 2017 - 07:12 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,805 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 12 October 2017 - 06:30 PM

Paul, I know your method but I hate to yo yo my speed, 5 over 5 under all the way through would drive me nuts. I much prefer a constant speed and my numbers aren’t too bad, over 71mpg since new on this one, over 69 mpg lifetime on the 2013 after 73k miles / 4 years.

Gary used to love to do that but also imagine the people behind you I’m sure they would get very frustrated.

-=>Raja.

#11 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 407 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-MAX Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:55 AM

On a trip to Sequoia one year, we stayed at the place right up top.  On the way down the car fully charged the battery to about 35 miles range IIRC.  Yes, it is possible to charge the battery fully.  After that you're on engine braking and actual brake pad/rotor wear....


  • ptjones likes this

#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:09 AM

Paul, I know your method but I hate to yo yo my speed, 5 over 5 under all the way through would drive me nuts. I much prefer a constant speed and my numbers aren’t too bad, over 71mpg since new on this one, over 69 mpg lifetime on the 2013 after 73k miles / 4 years.

Gary used to love to do that but also imagine the people behind you I’m sure they would get very frustrated.

-=>Raja.

rbot, you are making this a lot bigger deal than it actually is.  Most of the time it is a automatic driving function if it is hilly at all. If you are in the right lane on the FWY traffic usually slows down going uphill and speeds up going down. If you use ECO Cruise it does pretty much the same thing, slows down going uphill, speeds up going downhill, requires no effort and quite often uses 2Bar acceleration too. :smile2:   And from an efficiency/MPG stand point you never want to get the HVB SOC above 53% SOC using the ICE to charge it because you will get EV Assist helping the ICE, it is better to use ICE only going uphill. :smile2: BTW the useful SOC of the Hybrid  HVB is 38% to 65-70% and most of the time I'm 38-50% SOC.  The ICE runs the most efficiently towards the top of the Torque curve, 3-4k rpms which only happens going uphill. Using 2Bars acceleration I'm seeing 2.5-3.2k rpms usually. :smile2:

 

Paul



#13 OFFLINE   cr08

cr08

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 105 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ice Storm C-Max Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 07:20 AM

Funny enough on mine I have once or twice 'resumed' cruise from 15-25mph up to 50-60mph or higher and with EcoCruise it did seem to hold very well to a 2 bar acceleration on a flat road.


  • ptjones likes this

#14 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 300 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:42 AM

Re charging with regen down LONG hills—
Ideally, have a ScanGauge hooked up so you can see the HVB temperature.

The charging current from max regen is far higher than it is from L1 and L2. I don’t recall by how much, but it’s easy to imagine pushing the HVB temp up well past 100F, especially if the ambient temp is high.

I’m here in FL at the moment and with daytime highs of low 90s and night lows around 70, my HVB has been starting the morning at 82-86. Just driving mostly on highways with the ICE running, it climbs to 91-93 after awhile. Then I charged at UF on L2, from 18% to 80% and it hit 104F. Easy to imagine ten miles of regen down a hill causing even higher temps.

Of course, Florida is quite flat, so the opportunity would never arise here.

Edited by P=E/t, 13 October 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#15 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 300 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 11:58 AM

And here on the flat highways of Florida, I had the chance to compare what we would call the rbort and the ptjones methods of highway driving.

Normally I prefer to drive in steady state with the ICE running, and the HVB % one point above the ‘set point.’ The rbort method, if you will. (And yes Raja, the programming is different on newer CMaxes, and it’s hard to keep it at two points above, especially over 60mph).

Yet there were times where traffic was such that the ptjones 2-bar pulse method made sense. The whole vehicle stream was oscillating just like that, so I kinda fit in.

I also used the ptjones method off the highway, in a 45mph speed zone.

What I found is that mileage is higher with the ptjones method, as expected. Yet in any kind of unimpeded, low traffic density highway situation, it’s far more relaxing to just cruise with the ICE running in the rbort method. The only thing you’ve got to worry about is when you dip down to the actual set point; then you have to get back that extra point. This is easily achieved by making sure the total power on the Empower screen is less than twice the blue indicator bar that tells you where the ICE is going to shut off.

Also, average speed is the overwhelming factor as always. In other words:
There’s a slight difference in mpg between the ptjones and the rbort highway methods; there’s a HUGE difference in mpg between 55 and 70 mph.

Interestingly, on the 45mph back roads, I much preferred the ptjones pulsing method, and have noticed that before back in PA. It just fits the situation so well.

Rick

Edited by P=E/t, 13 October 2017 - 12:00 PM.

  • ptjones likes this

#16 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:19 PM

Does the fan run when you are charging the HVB on a plugin charger? On back roads going between 35 and 50 mph I'm averaging 70-80mpg. :smile2:

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 13 October 2017 - 12:35 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 300 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 12:47 PM

Oh yes, that fan runs!

There are actually two fans, I am told. One runs when charging and is definitely audible. The other runs when the HVB temp is 9 degrees greater than the cabin temp and probably in other conditions as well. It’s too quiet to hear. If I’m curious I just have a look at its data on the ScanGauge.

Edited by P=E/t, 13 October 2017 - 12:48 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

marlowefamily

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 37 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationSan Diego
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:2017 Energi Titanium w/ Moonroof

Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:09 PM

Sorry to pop in on another conversation, but I'm seeing a noticeable difference in how the empower gauge works in the 2017 CMAX and ptjones videos(do the older models work differently?).    When I start my cmax in auto mode, the blue 'available energy' is set to 4 bars..not 1-1.5...and the car seems to stay in EV mode until I either push 50MPH for a period of time on flat road, go up hill at 35MPH+, or manually switch to ev-later.  Of course, there are times that it switches the ice engine for some reason I'm not aware of....but unless I manually put the car in ev-later, practically every city drive I take is 100% EV mode and thats with acceleration from 15-45 and back.    I'll have to test the freeway driving to see if it is any different.   I still drive at 1-2 bars 90% of the time, but thats for efficiency not to avoid turning on the ICE motor.



#19 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,184 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:30 PM

My question is, when the hybrid battery fills up from regenerated power during operation, is the hybrid regen system capable of recharging the plugin battery as well?  Or does any regenerated power go to waste after the hybrid battery is full?

 

 

Scott, try this.  Save a mile or two of EV and manually switch over to EV Later.  Then when you reach the long downhill section switch back over to EV Auto or EV Now and the car will automatically bank all that regen.  Next, decide how you would like to use all that "free" EV range:  keep driving in EV or save it for later ( around town, etc). 



#20 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 300 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 October 2017 - 01:46 PM

marlowefamily, this does sound like how Auto Mode normally behaves. On a highway, it uses up the battery until you hit Hybrid Mode, when you then have no other choices. On surface roads, it only engages the ICE when you ask for a lot of power, or again, when the battery runs out.

Some folks use it a lot. I essentially never do. I use EV Now whenever I don’t want the ICE to go on at all, like during my 9 mile commute. All electric! And I use EV Later on the highway and any beyond-battery range trip to conserve the amount of battery I want to keep for the end of the trip.

And in mixed driving beyond the EV range, I always use EV Later on the most efficient parts of the drive, like long stretches with no lights or stop signs, and save EV Now and the battery for the stop and go bits.

Sorry to pop in on another conversation, but I'm seeing a noticeable difference in how the empower gauge works in the 2017 CMAX and ptjones videos(do the older models work differently?). When I start my cmax in auto mode, the blue 'available energy' is set to 4 bars..not 1-1.5...and the car seems to stay in EV mode until I either push 50MPH for a period of time on flat road, go up hill at 35MPH+, or manually switch to ev-later. Of course, there are times that it switches the ice engine for some reason I'm not aware of....but unless I manually put the car in ev-later, practically every city drive I take is 100% EV mode and thats with acceleration from 15-45 and back. I'll have to test the freeway driving to see if it is any different. I still drive at 1-2 bars 90% of the time, but thats for efficiency not to avoid turning on the ICE motor.


Edited by P=E/t, 13 October 2017 - 01:54 PM.









0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·