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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Block heater


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   SELT

SELT

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 08:17 AM

Hello everyone

John here from Montreal, QC, a new 2017 Black Energi Titanium owner since July.

 

I was just wondering the best way to use the block heater, which was included with the car... in conjuction with GoTimes and / or Auto-start using the FOB. I'm using the Ford L1 charger.

Sorry if this is such a noob question... but fall weather is upon us, and soon the winter cold.

 

Thanks for any advice.
 









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#2 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:32 AM

I answered with PM but thought it would be good to put this out there. My block heater started leaking after two years  :(, I really liked it and I think it is the best solution, but had to remove it. I'm currently using two oil pan heaters for a total of 375 watts. I use mine every day, when I get up I plug it in for a maximum of 3 hours. Also use it before lunch and going home if I remember too, the key here is getting WT above 128*F(54*C) to be able to go into EV Mode right away.  :smile2:  I try not to do anything that's wastes gas if I can help it. If it is cold turn on seat heaters.   :smile2:

Paul



#3 OFFLINE   SELT

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 11:40 AM

Thank you again Paul, for your advice... pointing out it is the best solution!



#4 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

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Posted 28 September 2017 - 02:28 PM

Thank you again Paul, for your advice... pointing out it is the best solution!

Yes, but only if it is installed from the factory. :smile2:  It is extremely hard to install after the car is built. Oil pan heaters are much easier to install. :smile2: 

 

Paul 



#5 OFFLINE   SayheyBj

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 05:53 AM

Hi, I have a 2017 since May but have no idea whether it came with the block heater(should I assume that means that it didn't?) What is the benefit of the the block or oil pan heaters and would I go to the dealer to have it installed? I'm in Massachusetts and have no experience with the car in the Winter months. Thanks



#6 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:02 AM

No it doesn't come with block heaters in Massachusetts, only in cold states like maybe Montana if I remember right.  You won't need it here.  Its supposed to prevent the engine from freezing from severe cold and can improve your gas mileage if you warm it up before starting the engine but in reality it deceiving and really more expensive as you pay for the electricity to warm it up and negate any MPG savings.

 

-=>Raja.



#7 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:13 AM

Very few areas of North America get the block heater installed from the factory.  If my car had been originally delivered to Winnipeg, it would have had the block heater.  Since it was brought to Winnipeg from a Toronto area dealer, it does not have the block heater.

 

The first question to ask related to block heater use is "How do you use your car?"  If you make your daily drive without starting the ICE, then the block heater is not really doing much besides using electricity. 

 

Paul has great advice, but keep in mind that his car is a hybrid so he expects to start his ICE on nearly every trip. 

 

In Winnipeg, I can make my daily commute without starting the ICE in temps down to -10C.  If I had the block heater, I probably wouldn't plug it in until it got to about -25C since the part of my commute where it makes the most sense to run the ICE is far enough into my drive that the ICE would have likely cooled quite a bit before I start it, minimizing the benefit.  Below -30C the engine will start at times even with plenty of battery, so it would be more of a benefit at those temps.


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#8 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:24 AM

That's entirely true, I didn't think about that.  If you have a block heater you have to plug it in about 2.5 hours minimum to 4 hours max to warm up the engine (from a friend who has one that got stats on it).  Anything after 4 hours is a waste and less than 2.5 hours the engine is not warmed up enough.  The difference in 2.5 to 4 is based on outside air temperature. 

 

The entirely true part is that when you leave your garage, if you have an Energi block heater, you really need to start the engine very shortly, in other words EV later right away and let it start after 5% of battery use from 100 down to 95%.  If I had one here and I warmed up the engine, then drove 10 miles to 295 from my house and then pushed EV later to start the engine, well in 20+ minutes to drive those 10 miles the temp of the engine has cooled down and you've lost some of the benefit from using the block heater.

 

Works best for Hybrid folks like Paul who have to start the engine every time they pull out of the garage.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 03 October 2017 - 06:26 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

Just to be clear my Hybrid rarely has the ICE start first thing in the morning and I usually go a couple of blocks to a mile before the ICE comes on depending of SOC of HVB. I have been able to go 3 miles on flat ground at 35 mph. If you go above 35 mph the ICE comes on automatically when you first start the car to lube the Trans.  Not a NRG for sure, but not bad. :smile2:

 

Here is a thread that should help you now that winter is coming.  rbort is right if you don't plan on using the ICE on your next trip, probably doesn't make sense to preheat the ICE. If you are going to use the ICE on trip it would be most efficient to use ICE first and use EV at the end of trip. I wouldn't heat up ICE more than 3 hours prior to leaving, this is in the CMAX OM. I want to clear up some confusion with using Block/oil pan heaters, they work the fastest when first started. The heat is lost more quickly as the differential becomes greater to outside temp and at about 3 hours the ICE temp stabilizes.    Also I would use Grill Covers all year around and monitor Trans Fluid temp on ScanGaugeII.   If TFT gets above 200*F I would remove lower cover.

Here is Link to improve Winter MPG's.

http://fordcmaxenerg...e-winter-mpgs/  BTW Grill Covers keep snow from getting in your grill and potentially damaging them. :smile2:

 

Here is a Post I did earlier this year. 

 

Last week I found out my ICE block heater was leaking and I think it has been doing it for sometime. I noticed two days in a row that the WT wasn't going up very much with the block heater plugged in and assumed that the plug had come undone. I pulled the cover off to find coolant dripping from block heater plug, the plastic piece in the center had started to allow coolant to get by it. sad.png   It is such a big job to install a new block heater that I decided to screw in the old freeze. I bought instead a 250 watt oil pan heater pad off of eBay to go with the 125 watt Model 9 Wolverine oil pan heater pad. I plugged it in this morning for an hour and a half and only saw 25*F rise in temp over OT.  My WT did go up very quickly so apparently the hot oil warmed up the ICE fast. smile.png  Now I only have 375 Watts vs 575 Watts before, but it still seems to be working good enough. smile.png

sml_gallery_143_17_52805.jpg 
  

sml_gallery_143_17_46800.jpg
sml_gallery_143_17_228583.jpg
 

 

Paul

 

Edited by ptjones, 11 May 2017 - 09:57 AM.


Edited by ptjones, 03 October 2017 - 07:48 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:15 AM

Paul,

 

You can't go 3 miles on the hybrid battery in the Cmax on level roads.  If they are downhill sure, but level its going to be hard to do so and any uphill forget about it, unless maybe you're shifting into N to coast further.  Not to mention the hybrid battery is never full, only 2/3rds on average maybe 3/4 tops but really when you get home you're probably no more than 1/2 from my experience.  I can do about 2 miles with my Cmax with the hybrid battery.  A couple of blocks to a mile sounds much more reasonable as to what is expected.

 

About preheating, for Energi cars it won't make sense unless you plan to EV later right out of the house, at which point it might be 2-3 miles later after you use 5-8% of the battery before it will let you start the engine as 100% is more than 100 so to speak, it takes about a mile from 100% before dropping to 99%.

 

If you drive the Energi several miles and then start the ICE with EV later (more than the mininum), then your engine will cool back down and you've lost the electric money spent on preheating the engine.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 03 October 2017 - 08:18 AM.


#11 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 11:59 AM

In that scenario you wouldn't want to charge your HVB to more than say 99-95% and would want to start ICE right away to get above 128*F WT. Why can't you start with EV later and drive it like a Hybrid to start with like I do. This again points out how important Grill Covers are if you are going to be using  the ICE to conserve heat/energy and there is still the aero improvement of 2 mpg.  :smile2:  BTW FYI I did go 3 miles on the HVB and this is how it happen, the night before I got back from long trip, SOC was 59% and battery must have been pretty harm. The next morning I started the car and SOC was 80%, WOW!  I drove up and down hills to nearby city and pass to about 38% SOC keeping mph at 34 so ICE wouldn't start.  BTW I go uphills all the time in EV and Life Time EV Score 51% with 80% HWY. :smile2: Just another example on how well the CMAX Mods work.sml_gallery_143_17_33424.jpg 

Paul


#12 OFFLINE   SELT

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Posted 05 October 2017 - 07:28 AM

Really want to send a huge THANK YOU to you guys; swstnsko, raja  & Paul for your kindly advice about the block heater.

 

Now that ranging around 40-50km / charge, I'm assuming it's going to be half that in the cold months, hence why I was looking at the possibility of using the block heater... since it came with the car. Following great advice from you guys, I always switch to 'EV Later' right before going up hills... and I have a few to get over before hitting flat roads to my usual destinations.

 

With my specific situation, from what I've understood from your comments so far, I will save "the electric money spent on preheating the engine", by setting a timer to start the block heater 3 hrs before, and driving out immediately in 'EV Later', get over them hills, and 'EV Now' the rest of the way...

 

That's my plan so far :thumbsup:

John

 
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