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18 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:50 AM

So 3 years has gone by now and it's time to turn in my leased 2014 energi with 27,800 miles on it. I was allowed 31,500. It doesn't have nav or a back up camera but it does have pretty much everything else. It came with equipment group 300A. I have had no issues with it and I like the car. Although, I did notice the drivers side window has made a stammering noise a handful of times but has not done so in the last few months.

 

Inspection company came out and found no excessive wear, front tires are at 5/32 and the rears are at 7/32. With all this in mind I will be headed to the dealer in short time to go over my options. Says in the contract that the end of lease purchase option is 15,905. This, obviously, is WAY off. I have found a few of my exact same car for as low as 12,999 asking.

 

Although I have found many are in the 14,900 range... asking. I have a friend who has a leased nissan that he for various reasons is not putting the miles on it and said if I would like to I can take it off his hands for a couple months and wait until November/December or even longer while deciding what to do if the dealer and I don't come to an agreement.

 

With all this in mind I was thinking about starting at 9,000 for my C/max and working from there. This sound about right? I will not be buying or leasing another car from the dealer. Unless something changes I really want to purchase a used and/or certified C/max energi and I am not really looking at any other cars. Something with 30,000 miles or less. It be nice to get my car at a fair price but I really don't know what to expect, haven't been down this road before (bad pun intended).

 

What should I expect the dealer will come at me with?

 

Is certified really that much more desirable then used?

 

If we come to an agreed price will the dealer certify the car at that point or is that something you pay extra for?

 

Any and all answers are greatly appreciated. Thanks... 









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#2 OFFLINE   sporkinum

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:31 AM

I bought my 303a (literally everything) with panoramic sunroof, trailer hitch and 14,000 miles for $15k last December from a Ford dealer. You should be able to do better. Good luck!


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#3 OFFLINE   Perry Knopp

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 01:16 PM

 Your local dealer does not own your car. The leasing company does so it's up to them what they do. You want my guess? You pay the residual number or it goes off to auction.


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#4 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 03:53 AM

 Your local dealer does not own your car.

 

That's what I thought and was told by a friend of mine who use to be a finance manager the same. Come to find out when you call Ford credit they direct you to the car dealer and was in fact told that the car dealer owns the car and that (paraphrasing here) "we only handle the financing for the dealer.

 

 

As noted, I have a friend who has a Nissan, a few months back he came to the end of his lease on his last Nissan. He called Nissan and they negotiated the price of the car over the phone with him, in the end, a week later they sent him a letter in the mail with there final offer. He never stepped foot in the dealership.

 

 

The leasing company does so it's up to them what they do.

 

 

See above

You want my guess? You pay the residual number or it goes off to auction.

 

That's a bingo!

 

Talked to them (the dealership) today and they would not budge.

 

Side story... I believe the leasing manager saw I had my act together. I told him right off the bat I wasn't interested in buying or leasing another car from them but I would be interested in possibly purchasing the one I have been driving for 3 years at the right price. I continued to tell him as he was well aware of that there are many other cars just like mine out there with less milage and a lower price. There so just happens to be one 20 miles from me with 2,000 less miles that they are asking a 1,000 dollars less for then my purchase option.

 

Now get this, he totally lied to me. After telling him this he said (paraphrasing here, again) "I've never heard of anyone trying to purchase the car for less then the amount on the contract but I'll go ask my finance manager"! LOL! Yeaaaaaaaaaah. Sure buddy. You do hundreds of leases a year and nobody has ever asked you to purchase the car for less then the purchase option except me. I'm the first one ever. lol

 

Guess I don't understand why he wouldn't make me an offer. It's going to cost them money to get it ready for sale. I'm looking at 20 right now that have my miles or less all of them Ford certified and all of them are cheaper. Don't see how they are going to move it off the lot quickly unless they offer it for as much, or less, then the one right down the street from me. Ford already has a back log of cars with the 18's hitting the lot in September or so. If I really wanted to (which I don't) I could just wait them out a while and still buy my own car back in November way cheaper when they are desperate to get rid of cars...



#5 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 06:32 AM

I think the reason is that if you lease a car you're like renting it.  And the intent is to give it back after the rental period.

 

They don't want you to rent it, and then buy it at a lower price than the original price.  If they did that for everyone then all would lease the car, make payments, and buy it at a discount later.  A new car will never sell for the new car price in that case.

 

I'm thinking out loud, that this is probably the reason.  So they have to take the car away from you and make it difficult for you to get your car back since you rented it and you need to give it back.  Its as simple as that.

 

My thinking is that if you want to change cars every 3 years, or want to not worry about car care and such, then lease one.  If you want the max value from the car, then buy one at the best price you can get and keep it as long as you can.  

 

-=>Raja.



#6 OFFLINE   Carnoob

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:19 AM

 

 

Ford already has a back log of cars with the 18's hitting the lot in September or so. If I really wanted to (which I don't) I could just wait them out a while and still buy my own car back in November way cheaper when they are desperate to get rid of cars...

 

 

 

 

 

There isn't necessarily a backlog of 17's and I understand there will be no 2018 model of the C-MAX energy - they will only be making the hybrid version. That was one of the reasons we decided to bite the bullet and purchase ours now instead of waiting. 

 

http://www.blueovalf...tion/?p=1007058



#7 OFFLINE   Perry Knopp

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 09:58 AM

 I don't know what Ford told you but there are auctions specifically for lease cars. Once turned in, off to auction they go. Look at the registration of your car. I bet it doesn't list this dealership. 

 

 A story I find funny (no one else might). We have leased cars before. We leased a 2000 Mazda MPV years ago. (my wife drives very few miles). I think after three years it had like 18,000 miles on it. She wanted something else. Anyway the inspector came to the house to check it before turning it in. He said they would have to dock me $350 for new tires. The tires were fine. I argued with him but little did he care. So I asked that if I replaced them with tires with more tread would that be acceptable. He said it would be.

 

 I went to a second hand tire dealer friend of mine and he had a set of fug ugly rough tread white letter tires he sold me for $150 (I believe it was). Looked awful on the van. I guarantee the car brought less money at auction with those tires than the ones that were originally on it.



#8 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:28 AM

When the lease came up on my Focus Electric, my residual was almost $18k.  The dealer I turned it in at had a lease return Focus Electric nearly identical to mine sitting on the lot for $9800.  The dealer told me that they did have 1st rights to buy my car from Ford Credit, but that with the gap between residual and market value, there was no way they would touch it.  I'm sure it went to auction and Ford Credit wrote down the loss on their taxes in some way.  I briefly considered buying the other car, I even went so far as to test drive it, but in the end, they didn't seem interested in working with me at all, so I just dropped off my car and walked away.



#9 OFFLINE   Perry Knopp

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 11:36 AM

When the lease came up on my Focus Electric, my residual was almost $18k.  The dealer I turned it in at had a lease return Focus Electric nearly identical to mine sitting on the lot for $9800.  The dealer told me that they did have 1st rights to buy my car from Ford Credit, but that with the gap between residual and market value, there was no way they would touch it.  I'm sure it went to auction and Ford Credit wrote down the loss on their taxes in some way.  I briefly considered buying the other car, I even went so far as to test drive it, but in the end, they didn't seem interested in working with me at all, so I just dropped off my car and walked away.

 

 It's been noted that GM has a hard time getting salespeople interested in presenting the Bolt. Many years ago I sold cars. I'm nearing the age where I can retire from my current job and have thought about selling cars again. It would be more fun without the pressure of not being able to pay your bills unless you sold something.

 

 I'd love to sell people on the advantages of electric now.



#10 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 02:54 PM

I think the reason is that if you lease a car you're like renting it.  And the intent is to give it back after the rental period.

 

They don't want you to rent it, and then buy it at a lower price than the original price.  If they did that for everyone then all would lease the car, make payments, and buy it at a discount later.  

 

I'm thinking out loud, that this is probably the reason.  So they have to take the car away from you and make it difficult for you to get your car back since you rented it and you need to give it back.  Its as simple as that.

 

My thinking is that if you want to change cars every 3 years, or want to not worry about car care and such, then lease one.  If you want the max value from the car, then buy one at the best price you can get and keep it as long as you can.  

 

-=>Raja.

 

I guess? As noted previously, by buddy negotiated with nissan with the price of the purchase option at the end of his lease. It was a simple as him calling nissan, pointing out the car he was returning he could by elsewhere for much less. A week later they sent him an offer to purchase it at a discounted price.

 

 

A new car will never sell for the new car price in that case.

 

I wouldn't agree with this.

 

Many people I know buy new cars knowing full and well when they do so that they lose a ton of money the moment they drive it off the lot. They do this because they want the latest and greatest and want the peace of mind if you will of buying something new instead of somebody else's hand me downs.



#11 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:16 PM

When the lease came up on my Focus Electric, my residual was almost $18k.  The dealer I turned it in at had a lease return Focus Electric nearly identical to mine sitting on the lot for $9800.  The dealer told me that they did have 1st rights to buy my car from Ford Credit, but that with the gap between residual and market value, there was no way they would touch it.  I'm sure it went to auction and Ford Credit wrote down the loss on their taxes in some way.  I briefly considered buying the other car, I even went so far as to test drive it, but in the end, they didn't seem interested in working with me at all, so I just dropped off my car and walked away.

And this is precisely what I can't wrap my mind around.

 

I pointed out to the dealer that just 20 miles from me was my car, with 2,000 less miles with an asking price, an asking price... of a thousand dollars below my end of lease purchase option price. I fail to understand why they don't want to sell you that car and still make some money on the deal.

 

When I go to turn this car in it's not like they are going to start it up and stick it on the used car line. They (or somebody else down the line) are going to have a tech go through it ($), fix and replace what needs it ($$), get it detailed ($$$), transport it ($$$$) then sell it at auction for cheap ($$$$)! Some dealer is going to want to buy that car for say... $11,000.00 or less. My purchase option price is $15,900.00

 

The difference in the auction price and the purchase option price alone is 5 grand. I would have probably bought it for around 13 or so and they wouldn't have had to barely lift a finger...



#12 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:31 PM

 I don't know what Ford told you 

 

I told you what Ford told me.

 

 

Look at the registration of your car. I bet it doesn't list this dealership. 

 

 

 Cab west llc.

 

When you call them they direct you to Ford credit who directs you to the dealer who directs you back to Ford credit as to why they can't negotiate. And really, although I would like to purchase it now I can just wait until I find where it lands after auction, quite possibly wait until the end of November when they are practically begging me to take it off there hands and get it for less then I was willing to pay for it now. What I'm much more inclined to do is to find one every bit as good whenever I feel like it and buy that one instead. SMH... 



#13 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 03:38 PM

Sorry just gave you my thoughts as of why not give you your car at a discount after you owned it from new.

I thought the idea was to discourage leasing and buying it later. You don't have to agree, just go buy a different one.

-=>Raja.

#14 OFFLINE   Perry Knopp

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 04:37 PM

I told you what Ford told me.

 

 

 

 Cab west llc.

 

When you call them they direct you to Ford credit who directs you to the dealer who directs you back to Ford credit as to why they can't negotiate. And really, although I would like to purchase it now I can just wait until I find where it lands after auction, quite possibly wait until the end of November when they are practically begging me to take it off there hands and get it for less then I was willing to pay for it now. What I'm much more inclined to do is to find one every bit as good whenever I feel like it and buy that one instead. SMH... 

 

 It's going to be far easier to find another and buy it.



#15 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 18 August 2017 - 04:54 PM

Just think about this for a minute.  Let's go with a fictitious example:

 

You can buy this new car now for 31,500

Or you can lease this car now for 2k down + $300 a month for 3 years for 10k miles per year, with a buyout price at the end of the least of $18,700.

 

So you choose to lease it, drive it around for 3 years, and then you want to buy it. 

 

They tell you that you owe $18.700 on your deal, but you don't want to pay that, you want to pay $12,000. 

 

If they accepted that then you got the brand new car for 31.500 - (18700 - 12000) = $24,800.

 

Good price right, why buy it for 31,500 when you can lease it and then at the end of the lease ask for your discount?

 

-=>Raja.



#16 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:07 AM

Sorry just gave you my thoughts as of why not give you your car at a discount after you owned it from new.

I thought the idea was to discourage leasing and buying it later. You don't have to agree, just go buy a different one.

-=>Raja.

 

No worries Raja.

 

And no reason to apologize. Just having a discussion...



#17 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:09 AM

 It's going to be far easier to find another and buy it.

Well aware.

 

As noted previously there is one parked 20 minutes from me at another dealership with 2,000 less miles for a grand less...


Edited by DiPsTiCk, 19 August 2017 - 02:10 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   DiPsTiCk

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:26 AM

Just think about this for a minute.  Let's go with a fictitious example:

 

You can buy this new car now for 31,500

Or you can lease this car now for 2k down + $300 a month for 3 years for 10k miles per year, with a buyout price at the end of the least of $18,700.

 

So you choose to lease it, drive it around for 3 years, and then you want to buy it. 

 

They tell you that you owe $18.700 on your deal, but you don't want to pay that, you want to pay $12,000. 

 

If they accepted that then you got the brand new car for 31.500 - (18700 - 12000) = $24,800.

 

Good price right, why buy it for 31,500 when you can lease it and then at the end of the lease ask for your discount?

 

-=>Raja.

Because not everyone is as smart (wise? cognizant?) as perhaps you Raja.

 

Orrrrrrrrrrrr, some people are to lazy. They don't want to go through having to go through negotiations all over again in 3 years. Who knows why people do some of the things they do?! lol.

 

I know soooooooooo many people that buy new cars... perhaps more then used cars. They go into it knowing good full and well that the moment they drive it off the lot the value of the car drops, what? 20 percent or thereabouts? I wouldn't buy a new car for nothing. And that's just because in my mind they take such a hit value wise in just 3 years. Your milage may vary (bad pun intended), perhaps you prefer to purchase new cars.

 

The MSRP on my car was 32,460. I should be able to buy my car used for 12,900, in 3 years the value of my car has dropped a whopping 60%!!! And again, my buddy just got done negotiating with nissan over his lease purchase option...



#19 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:31 AM

 

 

 I wouldn't buy a new car for nothing. And that's just because in my mind they take such a hit value wise in just 3 years. Your milage may vary (bad pun intended), perhaps you prefer to purchase new cars.

 

At the end of the day, you only live once.  You have to treat yourself sometimes, enjoy life, you can't take money with you when you go.  

 

 

 

Orrrrrrrrrrrr, some people are to lazy. They don't want to go through having to go through negotiations all over again in 3 years.

 

If you bought the car your wouldn't have to revisit going through negotiations every 3 years because your lease it up.  You could keep it until whenever you want to replace it, drive it as much as you want and not worry about "I can't go here or take that trip because I'm going to go over my miles restriction."  Never forget that, people with a lease always think about that and end up not using the car as much as they would have.  I know it from friends and family with a leased car.

 

 

 

The MSRP on my car was 32,460. I should be able to buy my car used for 12,900, in 3 years the value of my car has dropped a whopping 60%!!! 

 

A car never was and never will be a good investment.  Stop thinking of it that way.  When you buy it, you keep it and you use it, that's it.  You never worry about the value of what it is down the road.  But in reality that's not only true for cars, but other stuff too.  Think about other things you buy, and try to resell a couple of years later.  Lost 60% of the value, you bet!

 

So the only reason you got the lease is that you want a lower payment, and they give you that lower payment because you're not actually buying any car, you're just renting it for 3 years.  You get out of the rental contract at 3 years, if you drive over on the miles they ding you for every mile, they charge you for closing the lease agreement, and you walk away with nothing.  Basically think of it as a car rental.

 

But now you want them to give you the new car you rented for 60% less, so that you are actually buying a new car at a discounted price.  Well if that works for everyone, tell me why anyone in their right mind would buy a car?  Just lease it, wait 3 years, tell them the car is worth nothing, and have them give it to you.  :camera:  You can pose for pictures with the sales guy, and laugh all the way home  :giggle:

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 19 August 2017 - 06:34 AM.

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