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105 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 12:46 PM

So I got a jump from AAA at work yesterday after getting these messages from MyFORDMobile.  Car was not plugged in nor near any charging station.

  • 05/11/2017 3:54:48 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:54:31 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:31:58 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:31:45 pmChunk: Charge fault
  • 05/11/2017 3:31:05 pmChunk: Your vehicle had an accidental unplug while charging.
  • 05/11/2017 3:18:25 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:17:37 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:16:53 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:16:15 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/11/2017 3:15:38 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low

 

I couldn't get in the car without the mechanical key.  No juice to any accessory.  Got a jump and ran a vehicle report says battery ok. MFM shows a charge fault but the car was nowhere near a charger.  It also gave an earlier message that car did not start charging and again was nowhere near a charger.  UGG.

 

My wife was waiting at the local dealership this am over an hour for the battery to get installed and after taht hour they tell her the car needs a $600 software patch for "the problem."

 

She gets service counter on phone. I ask him to break down the costs of a $600 dollar software patch for a 12v battery issue.

 

I tell him that a flawed design causing systemic problems requiring a software update seems to be a recall issue and again ask for a cost breakdown that could in anyway justify such a charge for a software update.

 

He thinks the car has an alternator.  Service counter says the 12v is fine but there is a 1500 page software patch that will  fix the issues with the ummm generator  (since the car doesn't have an alternator)he decides generator will suffice and I will stop asking questions.   I said not, and ask him to find out  from the technician what is wrong and what needs to be done.   

   

 

 

Software patch was not referenced by the tech.  Tech told service rep that  he has to pull wires from front doors and hatch and possibly change some modules.  

O BOY!

 

AT 43k miles and 4 years of ownership I am having:

Trouble with my second charge cord.

A loss of battery capacity to below 4.0KwH.

Now this mystery of software and general electronic failure to start the vehicle with other electronic troubles.

 

After having the drive by wire power steering fail that stranded my family in the desert for 3 days at 6 months of ownership it has been relatively clear sailing despite the numerous recalls and bad charge cords.   

 

This one may be the showstopper.  I am not sanguine about dumping money into ghost module, wiring, software, or charge issues.  I am also frustrated by  the rapid decline of the HVB capacity.  

Being an early adopter of a first model year, I hope Ford steps up with a show of good faith to fix this.

 

I will keep you informed as to how this plays out and hope for the best.   My 6.5 year old subaru outback has had zero issues.

 

Any rational suggestions would be appreciated, but kindly refrain if you only need to up your post count with insight to how wonderful your vehicle has been.  I would love to know if anyone else has experienced something similar or related and how they resolved it.

 

 

I want to continue to enjoy Chunk for another decade, but it may be time to cut bait if this is the future of owning my particular ride with the HVB capacity, charging, and now electrical issues to boot.

 

I can DIY most mechanical issues, but I am not going to pretend that I am going to DIY digital software electronic issues with the vehicle if the electrical  information management continues to become unstable and unreliable.

Thanks


Edited by altabrig, 12 May 2017 - 12:53 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 02:05 AM

Two days ago wife called having trouble starting the car.  After calling AAA she decided to try one more time and it started up, so she cancelled the roadside assistance.

 

I'm wondering if her 12V battery is starting to go, she had something connected that was draining it, or the audio system/My Ford Touch did not turn off like it should have when the vehicle was shut down.

 

I'm betting at least some of those errors were 12V related.

 

Wonder if I could program it for you with this:

 

https://www.motorcra...?productID=1177

 

72 hours for $32.95

 

I have a Drew Toyota Mongoose Pro cable that I've used to connect to my wife's before, to try to program daytime running lights. 



#3 OFFLINE   MaxLB

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 07:48 AM

I received a recall notice about something to do with draining the battery.  Maybe that's your solution?



#4 OFFLINE   bobs

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 11:58 AM

I think you really just had a 3 year battery fail after 4 years. I am at 4 years on mine and have not done any software updates though there have been 2 or 3 I think, I know Raja has done the same. So I would guess that is what they want to do.

My only problem was (I believe) due to the radio not shutting off and I caught it before I could not plug it in for a charge, but it would not start.

I only use a usb stick and am very careful to take it out when I shut the car off.

I would tell them to put it back together and try it.

Bob

#5 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 13 May 2017 - 06:34 PM

Bob,  I thought so too about the battery, but lacked your and Raja's foresight to the software flashes.   Unfortunately the battery is just fine.  I wanted it to be a new battery ( though the thing has zero corrosion and is clean as the day the stickers were slapped on it).  It charged right back up.

 

Unfortunately (as posted in a thread on the TSB I was charged for) .  Theodore Robbins in Costa Mesa held my car hostage for the same TSB 16 - 0157.   Software update for modules and they checked the trunk and front door panel wiring.  That is all they did and charged me $600.   I will probably go back to the GM next week if I can get some lower quotes.   I may anyways after the unprofessional manner in which the service counter behaved start to finish.

 

My helpful service counter guy didn't tell the mechanic that there was a door latch recall.   I ask him why he didn't let the mechanic know and he told me the recall wasn't on his information screen - not true.  Every  time I have gone in the recalls show up on the screens.

 

  So he calls the mechanic on my vehicle and the mechanic tells the counter guy he has several latches.

Oh well says the counter guy, " I couldn't have done it till Monday."

 

I ask him to itemize the labor because there is no hourly breakdown.  Counter guy shrugs,"You probably should just read it yourself."   Then the guy turns to harass a co-worker about his choice of lunch.   

 

I wanted to lose it.

 

I tell the guy that he is not just going to read it to me but explain each labor item (there is not a line item list for labor nor a total hours on the invoice) to help me understand the problem, labor, and costing breakdown of the labor and the  the problem's resolution.   This is the same guy who told me it might be an alternator issue so I wasn't expecting much especially after he replied to my correction to how the 12v charges with "its something like a generator " I had to give him a chance, but after about two minutes of inept disclosure and obvious disinterest in helping me understand how I was being hosed  I had him call up the mechanic.

 

Mechanic is sharp and shows me what has been done and almost chokes when I tell him the flash was $600.   He also tells me that the service rep should have seen the recall on his screen and that it would have been quick since he had to pull the door panels to check the wiring on the front doors (also on the hatch).   The TSB is a reprogram update and a wiring check for drains on the 12v.  Turns out the harnesses on the doors and hatch aren't insulated to go the distance and rub through after a few years of repeated contact with a few sheet metal angles in the door and under the rood near the hatch.   $600!!!!    No wonder they didn't disclose the labor time.   

 

Ford designs something that wears through and causes a drain in four years of use and needs reprogramming to correct battery drain issues and then a Ford dealership can charge me $600 for the insult.   The service representative also let my wife and young'n' malinger in their waiting area for a couple hours before letting them know that battery was good and they would be needing the car for another 24 hours.   Yep she brought it in at 8 in the morning and made it home car less at almost 12 and we live a couple miles away.   I didn't get the car until today at 1:30 pm.

 

I wish it had been a simple battery replacement.  That is why the car was at the dealership.  Turns out the battery was fine.   I went around the corner to the local dealership for what I thought was a dead  battery and ended up forking out $600 for labor that wasn't even itemized.  NO PARTS AT ALL.  NOT EVEN ELECTRICAL TAPE!   $600.   A fellow poster got nailed for $180.   $600 feels like rape.


Edited by altabrig, 13 May 2017 - 06:59 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   James2

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:23 AM

My local dealer tried to charge me 120.00. I called Ford and ended up getting it for free, but took me three days. software updates should be free for life if they are correcting a factory defect.


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#7 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 06:36 AM

James,

Exactly. The ethics are obvious. Was your dealership in GA?

My dealer charged 5x that.

Glad Ford made it right and it sounds as though your dealership at least charged you in line with the probable labor hours (1.5 to 2 max) to their credit.

Thanks


The OASIS system FORD uses to look up the TSB information should be annotated to state it is a non chargeable service for the reason you gave.

On my invoice with no labor hours listed, "TSB lookup on OASIS was actually written under the description.


If anyone has had this TSB, would you please either post or private message me the name of the dealer and the cost of the service if off warranty?

Thank you

#8 OFFLINE   Perry Knopp

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 09:24 AM

 My unsubstantiated two cents. The common battery issue isn't the battery but indeed a software glitch. Yes, it's one Ford should fix at no charge. 

 

 A fix may be a fuse pull and reinstall. Mine did this and I figured I would get a new battery as the battery was 4 years old. A few days later it did it again. I haven't had a problem since though.

 

 I noted elsewhere about my radio and related services locking up. A fuse pull fixed it. If my car ever does the battery issue again, I will pull a few fuses that may be related to such issues and see what happens.

 

 No, that isn't the correct way to deal with this but if it works for me...................



#9 OFFLINE   ArizonaEnergi

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 11:16 AM

There use to be Ford representatives on these forums.  Are they still around?  It would be nice to get their response to the TSB cost issue.  Hello?  Anyone there?


Edited by ArizonaEnergi, 14 May 2017 - 11:16 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 09:08 AM

On the cost of the TSB alone I have called 6 other local dealers and calling more.  Cost for Southern Ca dealership labor out the door for the TSB is from $230 to $405 out the door.    

 

It is for a software reprogram of the modules and a wiring harness chuck on the roof next to the hatch and behind the front door panel.  NO PART whatsoever.  

 

Battery tests fine, but I agree on the preventative purchase being a good idea.   My battery has zero corrosion on the outside and no acid leakage around the posts.  Looks new and still holds full charge.

 

OF COURSE FORD SHOULD COVER IT.  IT IS AN ENGINEERING ISSUE and not normal wear and tear.

 

Love to hear anyone's experience, what they paid, and if they contacted FORD - who did they contact?  Thanks for the responses.



#11 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 01:36 PM

With the $33 I was able to update the PCM to the latest, but it kept failing to update the ABS. It is currently at the dealer for the door latch recall and to get the ABS updated. FMP said to update the ABS as it is at an invalid level for the PCM current level...

#12 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:43 AM

My local dealer tried to charge me 120.00. I called Ford and ended up getting it for free, but took me three days. software updates should be free for life if they are correcting a factory defect.

 

Pfft, when I took my car into the dealer for what turned out to be a need for a GPS module update(that I ended up doing myself), they told me that it was required to buy a new $180 map update(which had nothing to do with my problem) every year they come out, otherwise they wouldn't even look at it.  He told me "It's just like your phone."  Yeah, not sure what phone you have where you're paying $180/year for map updates...

 

Dealing with that stupid hacked Ford IDS software is not fun in the least, but so far, it seems to be better than having anything to do with the dealers...(and at a dealer, it should take maybe 10 minutes of "work" to plug in the computer and do any software update by pressing a couple buttons...)

 

For the 3G upgrade, I even skipped the local dealer 15 minutes away and drove an extra hour each way to go to a dealer with a much better reputation.  At least they got the job I wanted done without a problem(beyond the problems that are now "features" with MFM), but they still called me to tell me I only had 1mm left on my rear rotors which I declined to do and thought sounded odd...  Later confirmed I wasn't completely blind when I went to my local garage for the NYS inspection and he told me there was lots of life left in them and not anywhere remotely down to 1mm...  I mean they wouldn't even hold together at that thickness...  

Oh, and the "better" dealer told me I should probably just "check" the car seat to confirm they had it in right...  Which they had belted back in, but not through the right location and completely loose belts!  The seat moved like a foot when I easily pushed on it!  If you don't know how to do the seat, just leave it obviously out of place, don't make it look like it's exactly as I left it in tight!



#13 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 07:53 AM

Pfft, when I took my car into the dealer for what turned out to be a need for a GPS module update(that I ended up doing myself), they told me that it was required to buy a new $180 map update(which had nothing to do with my problem) every year they come out, otherwise they wouldn't even look at it.  He told me "It's just like your phone."  Yeah, not sure what phone you have where you're paying $180/year for map updates...

 

Dealing with that stupid hacked Ford IDS software is not fun in the least, but so far, it seems to be better than having anything to do with the dealers...(and at a dealer, it should take maybe 10 minutes of "work" to plug in the computer and do any software update by pressing a couple buttons...)

 

For the 3G upgrade, I even skipped the local dealer 15 minutes away and drove an extra hour each way to go to a dealer with a much better reputation.  At least they got the job I wanted done without a problem(beyond the problems that are now "features" with MFM), but they still called me to tell me I only had 1mm left on my rear rotors which I declined to do and thought sounded odd...  Later confirmed I wasn't completely blind when I went to my local garage for the NYS inspection and he told me there was lots of life left in them and not anywhere remotely down to 1mm...  I mean they wouldn't even hold together at that thickness...  

Oh, and the "better" dealer told me I should probably just "check" the car seat to confirm they had it in right...  Which they had belted back in, but not through the right location and completely loose belts!  The seat moved like a foot when I easily pushed on it!  If you don't know how to do the seat, just leave it obviously out of place, don't make it look like it's exactly as I left it in tight!

 

Frustrating.   Driving an extra hour for less than excellent is tough.  Dealing with the software and dealers is enough to get the blood boiling.   

 

WHERE IS THE QUALITY CONTROL in the dealership service?   What inspection process do the vehicles go through?   Based on my experiences - none.



#14 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 08:05 AM

Frustrating.   Driving an extra hour for less than excellent is tough.  Dealing with the software and dealers is enough to get the blood boiling.   

 

WHERE IS THE QUALITY CONTROL in the dealership service?   What inspection process do the vehicles go through?   Based on my experiences - none.

 

I can't see any evidence of any sort of quality control for dealers.  I didn't even go into the other issues I had with the first dealership in terms of them ignoring their website/online scheduling and having to repeatedly tell them the issues which was basically just one guy writing it on a sticky note at best each time.

 

Or that they told me that I was just flat out wrong, there was nothing wrong with my car even though I could see from the trip log they didn't actually do what I told them to to reproduce the error.

Or that I asked them about a couple other errors with MFM/vehicle service report, etc and their response was "dunno, doesn't work for us either. Maybe call Ford online."

 

 

Inspection process?  Pretty sure that's marginal as well.  When I got my 2013 a year ago, it didn't even have the correct upper switch assembly meaning it was completely missing the switch for the pano roof shade...  I'm guessing the previous owner didn't even know it had such a thing.

 

 

I stand by my feeling that coming from Toyotas, it seems like Ford is including a bit more tech, gadgets, gizmos, but doesn't seem to have it all ironed out entirely...  It *mostly* works...



#15 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 06:02 PM

Ford/Bosch makes it hard to hack the IDS software. Even the FMP (version 105) software I downloaded immediately updated a "database" as soon as it linked up with the servers online! I am trying to go the legitimate route, but I'm not sure an investment in a CarDaq M will resolve the error I was getting. (I'm honestly thinking of starting up a repair shop). There are clone VCM IIs on Aliexpress, but I'm not interested in installing on a Windows XP computer when Drew Tech products work with Windows 10, and the experience I had with database update.

Wife told me they called and the car is all done. No mention of any charges....

#16 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:47 AM

Ford/Bosch makes it hard to hack the IDS software. Even the FMP (version 105) software I downloaded immediately updated a "database" as soon as it linked up with the servers online! I am trying to go the legitimate route, but I'm not sure an investment in a CarDaq M will resolve the error I was getting. (I'm honestly thinking of starting up a repair shop). There are clone VCM IIs on Aliexpress, but I'm not interested in installing on a Windows XP computer when Drew Tech products work with Windows 10, and the experience I had with database update.

Wife told me they called and the car is all done. No mention of any charges....

 

yeah, the only one I've seen work at all was SUPER kludgy....  Something along the lines of a hacked version of VMWare with some special settings to basically not connect to the internet and not update the date, then XP installed, then An old version of IDS that allowed a free day to try the software, then update the software to the newer version so that theoretically it had a current version of software with a free day trial that doesn't update either by date or internet...  Then for module updates you went out and manually downloaded the file from Ford on a networked pc and fed it to the VM...



#17 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:18 AM

Yes, sorry I didn't seem to mention my wife's battery issue. She was at a conference in Anaheim when she called me around 2:30 pm. She said car wouldn't start and had some kind of notice on the screen saying shutting down to save battery. After calling AAA she tried again and somehow it started, so she cancelled the service call. Strange it seems around the same time frame as the OPs issue. Maybe after an hour later her battery might have been drained....

#18 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 06:26 AM

Yes, the 12V seems to have similar issues to the Prius, except there are a few other "features" on the Fords regarding low battery notifications and "shutting down to save power" which  shows up on mine any time I try to listen to the radio for 10 minutes without the car being on. And it only allows that twice.

 

But if the 12V source is marginal basically anything is game as far as errors or problems or possibly still starting the car.  I'm not sure what all runs when on the C-Max, but I recall specifically on my 2003 Prius that when the battery was getting real low and cold, it wouldn't start, but I could hear the brake pump priming as usual, but at a considerably slower rate.  Once that actually finished, then the voltage came up enough and the car would start.

 

The C-max has so much more remotes, cell signals, electronics, software, controls and an active and semi active USB/cig lighter ports, etc that there are all sorts of ways that little 12V could get low enough to be marginal and then possibly the car is smart enough to shut something more off, or otherwise the drain gets accidentally removed and the voltage gets up that tiny fraction to what it needs to boot the computers.

 

I recall seeing the prius boot on as little as around 9V at times.

 

And if the battery is marginal the car can sometimes decide to throw any number of random oddities and errors which say nothing at all about the 12V battery.  I think the most common one in the Prius was that it would pop up saying that it couldn't engage the parking pawl into the transmission or something...



#19 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 09:23 AM

Yes, sorry I didn't seem to mention my wife's battery issue. She was at a conference in Anaheim when she called me around 2:30 pm. She said car wouldn't start and had some kind of notice on the screen saying shutting down to save battery. After calling AAA she tried again and somehow it started, so she cancelled the service call. Strange it seems around the same time frame as the OPs issue. Maybe after an hour later her battery might have been drained....

Trying to manage the error codes and updates with my inferential level software skills is not really an option if it isn't plug and play or a very user friendly interface.

 

I was in Santa Ana last Thursday afternoon when I started getting the 12v low code around 3:15 but also the car had an accidental unplug code when it wasn't near a charger.  

 

When I got out to the car around 4, I could only get in with the mechanical key and the vehicle was totally dead.  

 

I gotta think Levi is correct in surmising that  the 12v related issues set off false error codes.



#20 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 12:47 PM

So after $600 dumped on wiring inspection and module reprogramming.

 

I just got these messages from MFM.

 

Went down at 1:30.   TOTALLY DEAD.  UP THE CREEK.

 

  • 05/17/2017 1:33:57 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/17/2017 1:25:05 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  • 05/17/2017 1:24:06 pmChunk may have incorrect clock settings which will affect charging, GO Times, and more.
  • 05/17/2017 1:24:06 pmChunk: 12-volt battery is low
  •  










Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: electrical problems software, electrical problems, charging problems, 12v battery problems, software update, wiring problems, modules, charge cord problem, charger, charge fault -not charging

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