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When is Hybrid mode better than HV?

mileage speed efficiency

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10 replies to this topic

#1 ONLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:34 PM

When is Hybrid mode better than HV?

So I know all about best practices and driving slow run around town vs highway, and cold and hot weather etc.

But what I don't know is, at what speed does it become more efficient to drive with ICE enabled vs just battery?

Surely there is a cross point at which the ICE engine is just more efficient then Electeic???

I know there will always be variables at play, but for this question, let's pretend the road is perfectly flat, weather outside is perfect, and there are no what if's.

Is it under 60kmh 80kmh 100kmh..... I'm sure ther must be an engineered spec on this (which apparently I can't find).

Thanks in advance for your input!







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#2 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:16 AM

I believe there is no speed where the ICE is more efficient than Driving EV. Electric motors are inherently much more efficient that the gas engine. That said The CMAX as very limited power available for EV mode so managing when to use EV to be the most efficient is what drivers tend to concern themselves with. There are additional considerations beyond the efficiency of EV to consider, like protecting the HVB for the long term.

 

Drivers usually want to maximize the number of miles driven in EV. Driving at high speeds or aggressively defeat this this goal.  Since increased speed also increases wind resistance it is generally best to switch to EV later at speeds above 45MPH. Other considerations for increasing EV miles per charge is to moderate acceleration. 

 

Each driver has to figure out what their own goals are and to find the driving pattern that helps achieve those goals. 

 

I personally am driving around 50% of my miles on the interstate highway lately so I reserve EV driving for all the low speed segments of the drives.

 

Tom


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#3 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:43 AM

Tom's answer is spot on.  I think you have to figure out what fits best into the environment that you drive in.  I'd love it if there were a setting to set speed threshold where the car would automatically switch itself to EV Later.  For my driving around Winnipeg, I'd probably set it to 85 km/h. The fastest speed limits on the roads within the city is 80 km/h, a setting like this would automatically switch it over to EV Later when I left town, and automatically drop back into EV mode when I slowed down to go through a small town.


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#4 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:51 AM

85 mph

 

:wink:



#5 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:59 AM

True, 85 mph is a design threshold, but I believe that's the upper limit because anything above that is overly abusive of the battery.  I think the 1st year models had the threshold set lower, and I believe Ford mostly wanted to brag that they could go at highway speed in EV to differentiate the Energi from the Plug-in Prius.  There was speculation that the cars with the lower threshold would also not regen if your speed was above that threshold, but I've never seen a 1st hand account of a C-Max not regen-ing when descending a hill at highway speed, unless the battery was already full.



#6 OFFLINE   Matt Bonnett

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:03 AM

Yep. Generally speaking EV is always going to be more efficient than ICE. The way I always think about it is the law of conservation of energy. Energy is neither created or destroyed. ICEs waste energy on heat, noise, vibration, etc.. electric motors have none of those issues or very little of them. This is also one beauty of our vehicles is the move of various accessories off of the engine (AC compressor, power steering, alternator) and allowing them to be variably operated or simply shut off if not needed. No longer parasitic loads that are constantly wasting energy to some degree any time the engine is operating.

 

The biggest factor to take in though is electric motors have a torque/acceleration curve where at highway speeds it can maintain speed but is much harder to increase it in a prompt fashion so that is usually one reason people recommend using ICE for highway trips. That and overall range is expectedly reduced at those speeds.


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#7 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:06 AM

Yeah, there are still kinda "what if's" with your question...

 

Efficiency measured how?

 

Pretty sure even at the EV max of 85mph it's still going to use less energy at that moment than burning gas.

 

But at 85mph, you're probably degrading the quality of your battery.  In other words, if you drive around asking the maximum from your battery all the time, then your battery is likely going to permanently lose capacity quicker than it otherwise would.

 

In the real world even meeting your conditions the question is "What do I have to work with?"  So, if I pretended that my roughly 27 mile daily commute was flat and perfect weather and I don't have a place to recharge during the day I'd do basically the same thing I *usually* do now.  Go into EV mode, drive at 45 or 55mph(55mph roads and it saves some energy), then when EV runs out after about 20 miles, I'll drive the rest home on gas.

 

My general rule of thumb (which is generally that I'm always going to run out of EV before getting home) is to use EV for flat/downhill, slower speeds.  Try to keep it to 2 bars of power going uphills/accelerating.  Use the gas engine where I'm pretty sure I'll be using it long enough to get it up to operating temp and otherwise uphills/highway speeds.  So, most of it is chosen on battery longevity.  

There is the occasion I take my car to a different town and I can make it round trip on EV, but it takes about 25% of my battery to make it up one hill at 25mph which is at about the 2 bars of power.  So, it's definitely a lot slower trip than most anyone else would take.


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#8 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:34 AM

Two things to consider:

 

a) if you are driving 100% EV and

b) if you are driving partial EV and partial ICE.

 

In a), keep speeds down to 40mph or less, I set cruise to 38mph and go the whole way 100% EV.  This will give you a good range with not such a long time to get there, works well off highways.  If you need to take the highway, keep it brief and go no more than 50mph in EV mode, if you need to go faster I'd say 55 tops, if you can manage to go slower try 48.  The formula is the faster you go the less further you will reach, so for example when I was in Montreal going 27 miles EV with highway and city streets I needed to keep the speed to no more than 48-50mph on the highway stretch to make it 100% EV, if I went 51mph on the highway I would be arriving on EV fumes.  55 for sure wouldn't make it.  The moral of the story, if you are not planning to start the engine, then make sure you don't.  Slow down a bit and make it 100% EV would be 100% better than going faster and starting the engine for the last mile or 2.

 

In b), always use the engine as its already warmed up going up hills in the city.  So switch to EV later, climb the hill with the ICE, then switch back to EV mode.  Again use EV for all the slower speeds below 40mph, and when you get on a road you want to go 45 or more switch to EV later.  The trick here is to find a spot to warm up the engine without having it idle at a light.  So find a long stretch of road you can warm the engine on the initial fire up, and keep it SLOW while warming it up so that the battery is not doing more work than the engine.  That translates to about 40-45mph, not 65 when you fire up the engine cold.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 20 April 2017 - 07:35 AM.

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#9 ONLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:04 PM

Thanks everyone. I know this is a hard thing to "simply" answer... it's all playing around to find results.
Truth is I'm getting GREAT EV Km... better than expected. So I was just sniffing for ways of maybe improving.
As my 2017 was only delivered 10 days ago.

Commute to work for me is 56km 90% on Freeway and mostly down hill. But Toronto traffic is ridiculous so TONS of that is at stop and go.

Today I got 45km (of the 56) in EV of which 9.1km was from regen. This was accomplished by switching to hybrid when going over 75km/hr and back to EV Now when slower and in stop and go traffic.

However, on The way home (with full charge again), it's now 56km mostly uphill. So I only got 36km of EV and only 6.7 from regen following the same rules as above.

And on both legs of my journey I got to my destination with < 1% showing on EV Battery. For some odd reason that's what makes me happiest!

I appreciate all the input as I learn this "New Game"!

#10 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:24 AM

And on both legs of my journey I got to my destination with < 1% showing on EV Battery. For some odd reason that's what makes me happiest!

I appreciate all the input as I learn this "New Game"!

 

And that counts as "well played"!!



#11 OFFLINE   tr7driver

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:42 AM

It may be you get the best value out of EV now by avoiding using ICE when ICE is least efficient. 











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