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Two foot driving -- regen braking while driving?


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13 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   patbob

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Posted 30 March 2017 - 07:35 PM

Has anyone tried recharging the HVB by lightly braking while driving using the ICE?

 

Not that I'm recommending anyone do this, but I'm curious if anyone tried it and what their experiences were.

 

And yeah, I know.. TANSTAAFL.









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#2 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 05:21 AM

 No, I just always drive downhill.   :shift:


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#3 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 06:39 AM

I've not tried pressing on the brake pedal and accelerator at the same time while moving so I don't know exactly what will happen, but I can guess that the computer will give priority to the brake pedal over the accelerator. Remember, these are drive-by-wire vehicles. The pedals are just inputs to the control logic. I'll try it out on my way home from work today. I'd be shocked if the car did something other than slow down. Actually, that would be major safety problem if it didn't.



#4 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:33 AM

What you're describing from my experience is the same as the Prius.  If you balance both pedals, you'll be using energy to drive forwards and friction brakes to slow the car. (it's easy to tell if you've got squeaky brakes after some rain/rust).

If you push both pedals all the way, the cars come to an immediate stop.

 

Now, along your line of thinking, the place where the Prius and the C-Max DIFFER is while at a stop.  Press both pedals and the Prius WILL fast charge.  Near as I've seen from the C-Max it just runs the gas engine and...  I guess just wastes the gas?  Doesn't seem to be doing any charging...



#5 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:41 AM

I'm working on a Video on how to drive a CMAX/Fusion Hybrids to get great MPG's. The potential problem is you could be trying to stuff more watts than the battery can handle at one time. Also the ICE is the most efficient at 2 bars acceleration and above 202F* WT.  So in theory if you accelerate at 2 bars with light brake pressure so not to create more watts than the HVB can handle at one time, this might work. :headscratch: With my ScanGaugeII I can see the % change of the SOC about every second so you could watch the change when you are using Regen Braking and getting 100% on brake coach to guide your Regen pressure . It seems to me it would be more practical to use ICE and Regen and don't allow it to go into EV. :smile2:

 

 

What you're describing from my experience is the same as the Prius.  If you balance both pedals, you'll be using energy to drive forwards and friction brakes to slow the car. (it's easy to tell if you've got squeaky brakes after some rain/rust).

If you push both pedals all the way, the cars come to an immediate stop.

 

Now, along your line of thinking, the place where the Prius and the C-Max DIFFER is while at a stop.  Press both pedals and the Prius WILL fast charge.  Near as I've seen from the C-Max it just runs the gas engine and...  I guess just wastes the gas?  Doesn't seem to be doing any charging...

Do you have a OBDII gauge? I just tried it and the HVB does charge with both pedals to the floor. :smile2:

 

Paul



#6 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:48 AM

 

Do you have a OBDII gauge? I just tried it and the HVB does charge with both pedals to the floor. :smile2:

 

Paul

Interesting...  I haven't played with the OBD stuff on here in a while.

 

it's been a while but I recall sitting in the garage with both pedals for more than a minute and not seeing any change on the battery display...  Wonder just how slow it charges?  Or if perhaps there's some difference as to being in P vs D, etc...



#7 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 11:49 AM

Interesting...  I haven't played with the OBD stuff on here in a while.

 

it's been a while but I recall sitting in the garage with both pedals for more than a minute and not seeing any change on the battery display...  Wonder just how slow it charges?  Or if perhaps there's some difference as to being in P vs D, etc...

I was in Park and it didn't appear to be charging quickly. It seems to me to be a very inefficient way to charge the HVB.

 

Paul 



#8 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 03:51 PM

So in my 2015 FFE while in park the brake pedal does nothing. The accelerator will kick on the ICE if pressed hard enough. The RPM can be throttled up to about 2500 if you floor it. I could not really control whether the HVB was charging or not. When driving at highway speeds the accelerator is ignored when the brake is pressed. The empower screen shows throttle demand dropping to 0, ICE will turn off, and the car will come to a stop. I haven't tried "power braking" with the car stopped and in D yet. 



#9 OFFLINE   sporkinum

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 07:53 PM

 No, I just always drive downhill.   :shift:

Treebeard: I always like going South; somehow, it feels like going downhill.


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#10 OFFLINE   patbob

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Posted 31 March 2017 - 10:26 PM

I've not tried pressing on the brake pedal and accelerator at the same time while moving so I don't know exactly what will happen, but I can guess that the computer will give priority to the brake pedal over the accelerator. Remember, these are drive-by-wire vehicles. The pedals are just inputs to the control logic. I'll try it out on my way home from work today. I'd be shocked if the car did something other than slow down. Actually, that would be major safety problem if it didn't.

They recommend in the owners manual to lightly depress the brake while driving to dry your brakes off.  So, no, the computer won't override you, but yes, it will probably just slow the car down.

..

Tried it on the way home, and sure enough, the car indicated regen braking while the ICE was still pushing me down the road.  Didn't do it for more than a few seconds though, so I don't know if it actually charged the HVB or just applied the friction brakes to heat them up.



#11 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 06:08 AM

It's easier than two-foot driving.  Just drive in EV Later, note the % target.  Watch the %charge and the up&down arrows around the battery image.  Tap the EV button three times whenever the %charge is higher than the current target, which will slowly raise the target.  I generally end highway trips with significantly higher charge than I start, especially on hilly routes, cycling the EV button at the bottom of slopes or at the occasional traffic slowdown.

 

EV later won't set a target higher than 95%.



#12 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 06:43 AM

They recommend in the owners manual to lightly depress the brake while driving to dry your brakes off.  So, no, the computer won't override you, but yes, it will probably just slow the car down.

..

Tried it on the way home, and sure enough, the car indicated regen braking while the ICE was still pushing me down the road.  Didn't do it for more than a few seconds though, so I don't know if it actually charged the HVB or just applied the friction brakes to heat them up.

 

Like I mentioned in a followup post the computer completely cutoff the throttle and turned the ICE off when I lightly pressed the brake pedal at highway speeds even with my foot still pressing on the accelerator pedal. Now, I was able to power brake it from a dead stop though. When you tried it were you at a stop or were you going highway speeds?



#13 OFFLINE   patbob

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Posted 01 April 2017 - 08:28 AM

When you tried it were you at a stop or were you going highway speeds?

I was only doing about 35MPH, so maybe that has something to do with it.  Or maybe we have different versions of firmware.



#14 OFFLINE   jtespi

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Posted 03 April 2017 - 08:51 PM

Now, along your line of thinking, the place where the Prius and the C-Max DIFFER is while at a stop.  Press both pedals and the Prius WILL fast charge.  Near as I've seen from the C-Max it just runs the gas engine and...  I guess just wastes the gas?  Doesn't seem to be doing any charging...

At least in my C-Max hybrid, the ICE does appear to charge the HVB nearly any time it is running. Also, when the HVB is almost full and the ICE is running (hybrid mode), the fuel economy increases to the engine's max of 4 to 5 L/100km (48-55 mpg). Maybe because of the larger battery in the Energi and the different driving modes, it does not seem like the high voltage battery is being charged by the ICE. However, if you look at the arrows above and below the battery, you should see it charging (up arrow). When the battery is nearly full, the ICE is probably not charging it as much, reducing the load and improve FE.


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