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Total charge on 2013 C-Max energy


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38 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:41 PM

There is already a class action being investigated.  Please contact Karla.Rubalcava@capstonelawyers.com.  They are in LA and successfully sued Nissan and got them to replace these batteries.

 

I first contacted them back in September.  Two weeks ago they had me overnight my manual from Florida to California and made copies (at a cost of at least $140 to them)

 

Karla Rubalcava

310.712.8142 Direct


Edited by David Burnett, 16 March 2017 - 07:46 PM.








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#22 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:53 AM

There is already a class action being investigated.  Please contact Karla.Rubalcava@capstonelawyers.com.  They are in LA and successfully sued Nissan and got them to replace these batteries.

 

I first contacted them back in September.  Two weeks ago they had me overnight my manual from Florida to California and made copies (at a cost of at least $140 to them)

 

Karla Rubalcava

310.712.8142 Direct

 

No sure I would want to get involved with lawyers who would spend that much money for something that is readily available on line for free. Something doesn't feel right about that.

 

Tom



#23 OFFLINE   Zana Vaughn Wilson

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:24 PM

I live in Florida and drive very careful, I am 73 years old. My braking score is always 97-100 %, the only thing I use is the AC. My range is usually only 13.5 to 14.2 miles on a 4.3 kWh all the time, I have tried to drive at 50-55 mph and tried to drive back roads with little stopping. No matter how hard I try I have never got more than 15.0 miles until the ice kicks in, the weather has been in the 70-80 F. Ford told me if the range is between 0 & 19 miles this is the the normal range, I am at a total loss on what to do next.


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#24 OFFLINE   bsheaffer

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 04:25 PM

No sure I would want to get involved with lawyers who would spend that much money for something that is readily available on line for free. Something doesn't feel right about that.

 

Tom

 

I think it was more to get copies of the specific revision of the manual - comparing what we were given to what's available now.

 

I also was asked to send my manual, but since I'd just moved it took a while to find just which box it was in.

 

However, looking over it and the warranty book (pamphlet, really)... the warranty makes a reference that the manual has tips on how to minimize capacity loss. My manual has no such tips. I'm a little curious if that was revised.


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#25 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:58 PM

No sure I would want to get involved with lawyers who would spend that much money for something that is readily available on line for free. Something doesn't feel right about that.

 

Tom

What are you talking about?  This class-action law firm has proven their ability to get battery replacements for Nissan owners.  They work pro-bono and all you have to do is call and let them know you are having a problem.  A class-action needs a class of people with the problem.

 

My manual also has no tips on maintaining battery life.

 

It seems pretty obvious it is better to have an actual copy of a car owner's physical manual rather than an online copy that may have been changed or edited.


Edited by David Burnett, 17 March 2017 - 09:02 PM.


#26 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:05 PM

I am also in Florida and have the same problem.  Your only recourse is to call or email the following person.  It is quick and painless, they are friendly and it is free.  They just need enough people so they can proceed.  It is illegal for them to advertise.  They are already working on the case.

 

Capstone Law

Karla Rubalcava

310.712.8142 Direct

Karla.Rubalcava@capstonelawyers.com

 

I live in Florida and drive very careful, I am 73 years old. My braking score is always 97-100 %, the only thing I use is the AC. My range is usually only 13.5 to 14.2 miles on a 4.3 kWh all the time, I have tried to drive at 50-55 mph and tried to drive back roads with little stopping. No matter how hard I try I have never got more than 15.0 miles until the ice kicks in, the weather has been in the 70-80 F. Ford told me if the range is between 0 & 19 miles this is the the normal range, I am at a total loss on what to do next.



#27 OFFLINE   WheNRG

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 02:56 PM

I was getting ~5.3kWh with my '14, now it seems to be down to about 4.5 kWh.  I used to be able to do my 26.8 mile commute on battery alone if the weather was between 60-85 and no AC or heat, now I'm at least 5 miles short every day.  I'm sure they'll say that 20+ miles is still more than it is rated for, but there has definitely been degradation.  I'm thinking it is heat that is killing it.  The first summer I had the car (here in Dallas) I only had the OEM 110V plug.  Then in the fall of '15 I got a 220V charger and have used that ever since.  It can be very warm in my garage, and it is obvious that the battery gets quite hot during charging.  I was still getting good range last spring, but after last summer I saw the range go down in the fall when the weather should have been good to get me the whole way.  The question is, what are the magic words to say to Ford to get a warranty replacement?  I'll continue to drive it like it is now, and expect it to go down further, but at some point they will have to admit that it is degrading past the 85% (I believe that was the number I have seen) level. 



#28 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:30 AM

I was getting ~5.3kWh with my '14, now it seems to be down to about 4.5 kWh.  I used to be able to do my 26.8 mile commute on battery alone if the weather was between 60-85 and no AC or heat, now I'm at least 5 miles short every day.  I'm sure they'll say that 20+ miles is still more than it is rated for, but there has definitely been degradation.  I'm thinking it is heat that is killing it.  The first summer I had the car (here in Dallas) I only had the OEM 110V plug.  Then in the fall of '15 I got a 220V charger and have used that ever since.  It can be very warm in my garage, and it is obvious that the battery gets quite hot during charging.  I was still getting good range last spring, but after last summer I saw the range go down in the fall when the weather should have been good to get me the whole way.  The question is, what are the magic words to say to Ford to get a warranty replacement?  I'll continue to drive it like it is now, and expect it to go down further, but at some point they will have to admit that it is degrading past the 85% (I believe that was the number I have seen) level. 

 

Unfortunately there are no magic words to convince Ford to replace your HVB. I do agree that overheating the HVB is a likely cause to reduce the HVB capacity as that has been my experience as well. The steps I have taken to date are to document the concern with Ford service in their system when I take the car in for other work. Their first argument will be that some capacity loss over time is to be expected. The will not quantify any specific amount. 

 

Your best bet is to document the HVB capacity losses over time. Even if you show them kWh losses they will not consider it a problem it you can still get over 20 miles range. Once you have a large enough kWh loss and are consistently getting range of less than 20 miles you might be able to begin making a case that the battery should be replaced. 

 

These are just my ideas and the method I am using to document my own experience with the HVB. My HVB capacity is now about 4kWh in EV and I still can get around 20 miles range under good conditions. If I had to guess, any HVB capacity over 3.5kWh will be a tough sell to Ford for HVB replacement.

 

I am also taking steps to limit any additional heat damage to the HVB by activity monitoring the HVB temperature using a ScanGauge. I limit EV driving any time the HVB gets to 102ºf and I start limiting charging any time the outside temperature exceeds 85ºf. This help prevent any HVB capacity loss after the hot summer of 2016. All of my losses happened after a hot summer in 2015.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tom



#29 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 03:13 PM

More like any capacity over 0.0Kwh would be a tough sell to Ford for a replacement.  Believe us--the people who had 3.8 after only 30,000 miles of driving.

 

Best bet is to call the lawyer above which will make Ford give us an official number where they will replace the battery--just like what happened with Nissan.  Any talk of "limiting of damage" is really just proof that Ford sold us a broken system and will do nothing to fix it. Not only that, they keep on selling it and thousands of people are getting the short end of the stick and Ford is profiting. Lastly, if you "limit" the damage, when the class action is over your battery will not be not quite bad enough to get replaced for free.

 

I'm the last person to talk to a lawyer but this is one of those things that will help the consumer who has a legitimate problem and not hurt Ford at all.

 

It seems many of these vehicles are leased and I doubt a second hand user would get any benefit from the class action.

 

 

 

Unfortunately there are no magic words to convince Ford to replace your HVB. I do agree that overheating the HVB is a likely cause to reduce the HVB capacity as that has been my experience as well. The steps I have taken to date are to document the concern with Ford service in their system when I take the car in for other work. Their first argument will be that some capacity loss over time is to be expected. The will not quantify any specific amount. 

 

Your best bet is to document the HVB capacity losses over time. Even if you show them kWh losses they will not consider it a problem it you can still get over 20 miles range. Once you have a large enough kWh loss and are consistently getting range of less than 20 miles you might be able to begin making a case that the battery should be replaced. 

 

These are just my ideas and the method I am using to document my own experience with the HVB. My HVB capacity is now about 4kWh in EV and I still can get around 20 miles range under good conditions. If I had to guess, any HVB capacity over 3.5kWh will be a tough sell to Ford for HVB replacement.

 

I am also taking steps to limit any additional heat damage to the HVB by activity monitoring the HVB temperature using a ScanGauge. I limit EV driving any time the HVB gets to 102ºf and I start limiting charging any time the outside temperature exceeds 85ºf. This help prevent any HVB capacity loss after the hot summer of 2016. All of my losses happened after a hot summer in 2015.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tom


Edited by David Burnett, 22 March 2017 - 03:16 PM.


#30 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 22 March 2017 - 05:22 PM

Dave, I've been trying to do the right things to maintain my HVB.   If you guys come up with a replacement program based on a certain capacity, I'd also love to start over like everyone else with a new battery.  Almost 4 years now on my battery with a pretty decent capacity, a new battery would mean at least 4 more good years of service.

 

-=>Raja.



#31 OFFLINE   Matt Bonnett

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:02 AM

I'd also be interested in knowing if us second hand owners would be able to get in on this. Haven't gotten my hands on my C-Max yet but one of the first things, due to my commute, will be checking to see what the full EV charge is on it and lifetime EV mileage. Next week should be a good week here with morning temps being around 50 or so and afternoon around 60



#32 OFFLINE   WheNRG

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 11:41 AM


I am also taking steps to limit any additional heat damage to the HVB by activity monitoring the HVB temperature using a ScanGauge. I limit EV driving any time the HVB gets to 102ºf and I start limiting charging any time the outside temperature exceeds 85ºf. This help prevent any HVB capacity loss after the hot summer of 2016. All of my losses happened after a hot summer in 2015.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tom

 

Does anyone have the steps to monitor battery temp with the scangauge II?  I'm sure it's in here somewhere, but the search isn't the best.

 

tks,



#33 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 04:01 PM

Here is the formula that is to be entered as an xgauge into the ScanGauge II. There are around 24 memory slots available for programming xgauges. Pick any of the unused memory slots and enter each of the values listed below. The ScanGauge manual does have info on how to enter the xgauges if you need instructions. If you need more assistance send me a PM.

 

Tom

 

Hybrid Battery Temperature (Degrees Fahrenheit)

TXD: 07E4224800

RXF: 046205480600

RXD: 3008

MTH: 00090005FFC6

NAM: HBT



#34 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:40 AM

On a related note.  If you choose to display any of the temperatures reported by the car's ODB2 port in degrees F, don't be surprised that the gauge reads in decimal points, but jumps in roughly 2 degree increments.  My experience is that the car reports these temperatures in degrees C as whole numbers (no decimals,) and the appearance of reading to fractional degrees F is just a by product of the math equation used for the conversion.  If you display the values in C, they are whole numbers that go up and down in increments of 1.

 

FYI: the 0009 and the 0005 in the MTH: line is part of the equation for converting C to F



#35 OFFLINE   Mike G

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 05:31 AM

Here is the formula that is to be entered as an xgauge into the ScanGauge II. There are around 24 memory slots available for programming xgauges. Pick any of the unused memory slots and enter each of the values listed below. The ScanGauge manual does have info on how to enter the xgauges if you need instructions. If you need more assistance send me a PM.

 

Tom

 

Hybrid Battery Temperature (Degrees Fahrenheit)

TXD: 07E4224800

RXF: 046205480600

RXD: 3008

MTH: 00090005FFC6

NAM: HBT

Which OBD port do you use for the ScanGuage? The one behind the dash or the one in the dash behind the panel?

Thanks



#36 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 27 March 2017 - 06:30 AM

I always use the one behind the Dash. 

 

Tom



#37 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 08:45 PM

Mine is down below 3.9 kwh per charge after 4 years and 43k total miles of which about 35 k miles were EV. Kind of a bummer. Bet it is below 3.5 by the end if the summer.

#38 OFFLINE   JonC

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:39 PM

I'm still getting over 5.3 on my 2013 at over 92k miles, and I'm not doing anything to be nice to the battery.  I guess I won't be joining the class action, apparently I got one of the good ones.

 

Li-Ion batteries are weird like that.  The good ones run perfectly for a few thousand cycles, the bad ones act up after as little as a few hundred.  Best of luck to you, the bad ones absolutely are defective, and Ford should take responsibility for them.  I've certainly made Apple replace quite a few MacBook Pro batteries for my clients.  (Weirdly, my personal MBP batteries also seem to last for many years, my current 2011 MBP is still running really well on its original battery.)



#39 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 19 May 2017 - 06:57 PM

Didn't know there was a lawsuit.

It usually doesn't get much above 80f in the summer here.

Sure wish I had over 5kWH capacity on mine. Two years ago I could do a huge circle to work and back of over 27 miles in city traffic and over 31 in ideal conditions. Now I am scratching to get 17.








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