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EV/ICE threshold


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Jimmy Fett

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 04:53 PM

Good evening all. I've been lurking here for months, learning as much as possible in between enjoying my 2013 CMax Energi. I've searched this topic but possibly didn't use the right combination of keywords so I apologize if this has been addressed in the past.

Is anyone attempting to reprogram the EV threshold speed. I use my car for commuting varying speeds between 25mph and 55(58)mph with very few traffic lights for regeneration. This being the case I spend what I feel is an unreasonable amount of time regenerating the HVB at 20ish mpg just to have it sucked away descending small hills. I live in the coastal plains of NC so there is very little truly flat area.

I feel that people in my situation would greatly benefit from resetting the threshold to 50 mph so that the car would be in EV mode when drag is low and could use electric assist when incinerating dinosaurs making the best use of the HVB for commutes longer than our electrons allow.

Thoughts or experience?


Edited by Jimmy Fett, 02 February 2017 - 02:24 AM.








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#2 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 06:45 PM

Whatchoo talkin' bout Willis??   :headscratch:

 

"EV threshold speed"  :headscratch: 

 

"This being the case I spend what I feel is an unreasonable amount of time regenerating the HVB at 20ish mpg just to have it sucked away descending small hills."  You mean the ICE is recharging the HVB at 20mpg but then you say sucked away descending?  :headscratch: 

 

Do you mean ascending?

 

"I feel that people in my situation would greatly benefit from resetting the threshold to 50 mph"  :headscratch: 

 

" the car would be in EV mode then drag is low and could use electric assist when incinerating dinosaurs making the best use of the HVB for commutes longer than our electrons allow."  :headscratch: 

 

Can you say this one more time in English?  Sorry but its SOOOOO confusing...!

 

-=>Raja.



#3 OFFLINE   Jimmy Fett

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 02:23 AM

Sorry Raja, sometime I word things in such a was as to unintentionally confound the masses.

 

EV threshold speed-

From what I understand the C-Max will remain in EV mode up to 85mph. I was really just wondering if anyone had attempted to reprogram the car to have a lower EV speed.

 

From my experience, the ICE charges the HVB ascending hills and on the flats. I have a couple of moderate downhill grades that encourage the C-Max to drop into electric mode in EV Later. By the time I've reached the bottom of the grade the HVB has discharged all of the headspace I've gained. It seems that at highway speeds it would be more efficient to charge the battery while descending so that the battery would be available when ascending after the lowest elevation. I've tried tapping the gas to re-engage the ICE but the car tends to prefer electric motivation resulting in energy use of just shy of the first tic mark on the Empower screen. This results in loss of 4-5% battery power by the time I reach the trough.

 

I'm sure this is specific to my individual commute. I treat my commute like a game and I'm always trying to milk another tenth of an MPG out of it, resulting in some pretty silly theories.

 

I've learned a lot watching your videos and am thankful that you took the time to try to wade through my post.

 

Jimmy



#4 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 02 February 2017 - 06:53 AM

Ok, making a little more sense now.

 

First off, on the EV speed, you can go up to 85 mph in AUTO or EV mode, not in EV later mode.  The car gives you up to 4 bars of power in auto mode, and full EV power in EV mode (you can floor it and the ICE won't ever start).  

 

In EV later mode, the speed depends on your power draw.  You have a maximum of 1.5 up to 2 bars of power.  If you go over that threshold the engine will start.  

 

You saw my video, if you need to improve mpg numbers then,

 

Run the ICE and watch the charge level % since you selected EV later, you want to build that up to +2% more than the initial set point.

The ICE will shut off when going downhill, but all you need to do is fire up the ice asap when the hill shallows out not to lose the excess charge.

Do not try to accelerate uphill, more ideal to maintain speed or slightly lose some speed and gain it back on the downhill.

 

There really isn't any need to change the threshold you're talking about, you can run the engine by putting a little more power demand briefly to get it to fire up.  The only exception is that you most likely won't be able to run it going downhill, but in reality you don't need it down hill, the car will go forever on battery its always a free ride from the top of any mountain down to the base.

 

Also if you're travelling slower, like 50mph or less, it is more ideal to let the engine cycle on and off and use the battery to gain mpg numbers.  Once you are going over 60mph, then its more ideal to keep the ICE running all the time and get to +2% of EV later set point for better mpg.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 02 February 2017 - 06:54 AM.


#5 OFFLINE   Jimmy Fett

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 06:42 AM

Thanks Raja!

#6 OFFLINE   tbrenneman

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 07:46 PM

I recently purchased a C-Max Energi and also think the threshold should be lowered in Auto mode. Maybe 2 bars of EV power before the ICE turns on. Instead of 4.

I haven’t noticed much of a difference between Auto and EV modes. Auto uses all of the battery before switching to ICE. I could lock it in EV mode if I wanted, why not make Auto more of a balance between the two? Seems like a waste of battery power when on the freeway.

Love the car though!

#7 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 07:53 PM

Here is the deal:

 

AUTO mode is 4 bars of battery power, any more power demand than that and the ICE will start to give you full 188HP.

 

EV mode is 4 bars of power and no engine, so even if you floor it, limited to 88 HP or so IIRC.

 

EV later mode is 2 bars of power and the engine runs more.  

 

This car is VERY flexible better than others out there you just have to understand exactly how it works and then you can use it to your advantage.

 

I drive in AUTO mode all the time I'm doing EV driving, and EV later when I need the engine to save the battery from usage.  EV Now mode is only useful in the winter if you want to turn heat on and you don't want the engine to start, I would only use that option if I'm plugged in and running the heat on plug power while sitting in the car in a "home office" so to speak doing some work on my Ipad while waiting.  That or if you need to drive hard and not start the engine though I do not recommend ever being hard on the battery.

 

EV now mode also gives you range circles on the map to see how far you can get on EV power (estimate) with a definite circle and a probable circle (larger one).

 

Hope this helps.

 

-=>Raja.


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#8 OFFLINE   tbrenneman

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:56 PM

I understand the drive modes and their flexibility. And I’m fine with actively switching between them, as I’m sure most people on this forum are. My family isn’t interested in another thing to think about when driving though. I just thought the Auto mode could more accurately split the difference between EV now and EV later. And perhaps automatically save the battery from more aggressive use than it currently does. No big deal though, actually the only thing I would change about the car.

I didn’t know about the range estimate on the map in EV now mode, that sounds cool. Thanks!

#9 OFFLINE   spirilis

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 05:11 AM

Having done a long-distance trip in mine once before, I would prefer to see an EV Afterburner mode - EV Later up to 2 bars of gasoline torque and then EV torque from there, until the traction motor is maxed out then let the engine go further.  That would allow you to highly optimize the use of gasoline with supplemental EV torque only when needed and stretch the utility of the small battery out over a much longer distance.



#10 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 06:45 AM

Spirilis

 

The car already does this in EV later mode.  The battery WILL help the engine to climb hills if there is sufficient charge in it.  Its just an EV assist as long as the hill is there so the engine does not drop much below 20mpg.  Then when the hill is over the engine will charge it back up.  If the hill is too long then eventually ev assist runs out because its in EV later mode and it uses only a few percent of the HVB around the EV later set point.

 

Tbr:

 

Yes, AUTO is not ideal for people who don't know how to drive the car.  It will use the battery first and then default to engine.  That means you can waste the whole battery the first 20 miles of the trip even at highway speeds and then switch to EV later.  In order to make this car perform you have to switch modes yourself.  Train them properly and you will be all set.  I train my wife how to use her battery piecemeal in her Mini Countryman EV.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 13 August 2018 - 06:47 AM.

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#11 OFFLINE   spirilis

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 06:54 AM

Spirilis

 

The car already does this in EV later mode.  The battery WILL help the engine to climb hills if there is sufficient charge in it.  Its just an EV assist as long as the hill is there so the engine does not drop much below 20mpg.  Then when the hill is over the engine will charge it back up.  If the hill is too long then eventually ev assist runs out because its in EV later mode and it uses only a few percent of the HVB around the EV later set point.

 

Tbr:

 

Yes, AUTO is not ideal for people who don't know how to drive the car.  It will use the battery first and then default to engine.  That means you can waste the whole battery the first 20 miles of the trip even at highway speeds and then switch to EV later.  In order to make this car perform you have to switch modes yourself.  Train them properly and you will be all set.  I train my wife how to use her battery piecemeal in her Mini Countryman EV.

 

-=>Raja.

Didn't realize that!  I should pay closer attention when going up a hill next time.  Alas this isn't in a "charge depletion" manner, it will eventually cancel that to maintain the HVB charge % so what I'm talking about is slightly different.



#12 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 07:14 AM

Yes you can watch that in the Engage screen.  In the old 2013 model you could switch modes while the engine was running and case the system to switch to battery drain mode.  I think maybe it was a bug.  The battery would assist the engine all the time on the highway and net 60mpg approximately until its gone flat.  Do a search here about it, I think people used to call it EV blend mode.  I tried it a while back, I don't like that mode its not efficient.

 

-=>Raja.



#13 OFFLINE   bob_ninja

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 07:06 AM

Same for me. AUTO limit is too high.

 

4 bars is about 20 kW which is too high for 7.5 kWh battery to being with.

Moreover most of the time there is almost no point in using EV mode since AUTO mode has pretty much the same 4 bar limit.

While expert users like us can figure out when to switch modes to avoid going over 10 kW, average driver will not bother.

 

IMHO

 

Makes much more sense to go with:

EV = same 4 bars, 20 kW

AUTO = 2 bars, 10 kW

EV later = 1 bar, 5 kW

 

This was you have more logical progression from pure EV to standard hybrid mode.

 

One situation that really annoys me when battery is low, say 10% or lower and EV later mode will still allow 2+ bars, 10 kW power.

I really don't want to pull 10 kW or more from near empty 7 kWh battery. I have to play with throttle to keep engine on and battery charging causing some odd behavior for other cars around me.

 

The current settings make it very easy to damage battery and is unfortunate that there is no setting to select from, like "Aggressive" vs "Gentle" configuration.


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#14 OFFLINE   tbrenneman

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 07:15 AM

Same for me. AUTO limit is too high.
 
4 bars is about 20 kW which is too high for 7.5 kWh battery to being with.
Moreover most of the time there is almost no point in using EV mode since AUTO mode has pretty much the same 4 bar limit.
While expert users like us can figure out when to switch modes to avoid going over 10 kW, average driver will not bother.
 
IMHO
 
Makes much more sense to go with:
EV = same 4 bars, 20 kW
AUTO = 2 bars, 10 kW
EV later = 1 bar, 5 kW
 
This was you have more logical progression from pure EV to standard hybrid mode.


I agree Bob. Wonder how hard it would be to reprogram the “threshold” settings. I don’t have any expierence with modifying cars like that but it seems doable.

#15 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 04:14 AM

In the old 2013 model you could switch modes while the engine was running and case the system to switch to battery drain mode.

You can't do that in later models?  I'd *hate* that.  I'm an engineer, and I'm very used to running in EV Now (my commute is well within electric range) but switching to EV later if my trip takes me on the highway (usually at the bottom of the on-ramp).  I essentially never use Auto, since my commute includes a busy rotary, and the punch needed to join the fray would reliably start the ICE that I didn't need for the rest of the trip.



#16 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 05 September 2018 - 06:01 AM

Stolen:

 

What I mean by that is "EV Blend" mode as what people named it.  Its like the engine is running but the battery is assisting all the time giving you 60mpg until you run out of battery.  I never found that to be useful, I think its like a bug in the system.

 

You shouldn't be punching full throttle in the rotary, I suppose you feel safer but I would wait until there is a better moment to pull out more gently and join into the rotary.

 

-=>Raja.



#17 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:20 AM

Raja, how often do you join the Concord rte 2 rotary, at rush hour, from a minor side street?   :wink:



#18 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 06:40 AM

Thankfully never  :wink:  Retired life from the corporate world does have its fringe benefits!!

 

-=>Raja.










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