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2013 CMax Energi electrically Dead

#wontstart #nodashboard #noli

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16 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   ssteadmana

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:35 PM

Wednesday I drove my Cmax did some errands and parked it in the garage for the night.  Plugged it in all the right things happened blue circle charge indicator came on, I heard the battery fans running, and I swiped the sensor pad and all the doors locked.

 

I went to use the CMax on Thursday and the blue charging ring was at 100% fans were still running but car wouldn't unlock with the fob.  I've never replaced the battery on the fob so I figured this was the problem.  I used the key blade to open the door and get in.  I couldn't find anything to start the car with the key.  So I stepped on the brakes and hit the power button.  The dash partially lit and flashed but it didn't start.  I hit the power button again and it turned off the partial dash flashing. 

 

I tried holding the FOB next to the right side the steering wheel where it has a 'picture' of the key and radio waves.  Then hit the power button again.  It did not start and just flashed a partially lit dash board.  I went inside and got the spare but this did not work either with similar flashing.  I was able to uber to where I was going.

 

Even though the 12V battery is only a few months old I thought maybe its that and called for a jump the next day.  This time when I got in the car it did NOTHING.  No flashing no sign of life even the blue charging circle wasn't on any more and the fans weren't running. The roadside assistance guy wanted to jump in the passenger seat to have a look and I couldn't unlock the doors using the power lock button.

 

My assumption is still the 12V battery or possibly a fuse but I'm not sure.  

 

Any suggestions from the forums?









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#2 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 21 January 2017 - 06:50 PM

Sounds like a dead 12V battery to me. Did the jumpstart work? If a Volt meter is available it would be nice to get a voltage reading from the terminals under the hood. When my battery went bad the 12V battery had a voltage reading of less than 10V and no lights would come on the dash when entering the car on when the Start button was pressed. Jump starting the car did allow allow me to drive it the the dealer who confirmed that battery was bad. The replacement has worked fine since then.

 

Tom



#3 OFFLINE   C-Maximus

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 05:14 PM

Any update on this problem?



#4 OFFLINE   daudette

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 05:14 PM

This sounds like the occasional problem reported by C-Max owners and which Ford will not acknowledge.  (There were a number of posts in a dedicated thread here about this a year ago.)  

 

It happened to me, too.  I didn't know what the problem was and I had it towed to a dealership at Ford's cost.  The dealership said it was a dead 12v battery and they charged it and blamed me for leaving some accessory on or lights on or something.   BS!  Can't be done!

 

I tracked the 12v battery charge daily for the next month and once I put a charger on it when it looked low.  But that was a year ago and it hasn't happened since.

 

It's intermittent.  Do you know how to charge the battery by connecting under the front hood?  There's no need to open up the back to access the battery to charge it.



#5 OFFLINE   Izzy

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 04:32 PM

I just had this happen today!  Oddly, my dealership had a power outage today.  So I had AAA come and jump start my battery.  They said, nope, no juice in your battery, it's dead, we don't carry that one, go drive to your dealer.

So I drove to a dealer that actually had power, and they said someone had the same problem, same 2013 model, just last week, and that it seems to be A Thing but no recall (yet).

They did something with resetting the touch screen (probably pulled fuse 79, but who knows?), and I have power again.  For now.  Argh.



#6 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 11:56 AM

Maybe the 12v battery isn't making a good connection?  Tighten the terminals?

 

Paul


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#7 OFFLINE   Billyk24

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Posted 25 September 2018 - 03:15 PM

Do you know how to charge the battery by connecting under the front hood?  There's no need to open up the back to access the battery to charge it.

 

Details?



#8 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 27 September 2018 - 11:24 AM

Easy peasy - use your key blade to open the car then pop the hood.  On the far right you'll see the red positive terminal next to the fuse box.  The under-hood negative connection isn't obvious.  From the positive connection, look about 5 inches toward the front and then down in about 6 inches.  It's a post that sticks up quite close to one of the big orange cables.  You'll need to clamp on to it from above - I've used to jump the Cmax after a dead battery, or to attach a battery tender to every 4 -6 months to get it back to full charge.



#9 OFFLINE   Izzy

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 08:28 AM

And now my C-max is completely dead for the second time in a week.  Both times, the radio/audio stopped working a couple of days before.

The Ford dealership is being cagey, claiming they "don't know" if it's covered by the extended warranty they sold me which is supposed to cover everything. And they don't even know what's wrong!   I've loved this car for the nearly 5 years I've had it, but if this is how it plays out, I'll go back to Honda or Toyota and will never buy another Ford again.



#10 OFFLINE   Billyk24

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 10:25 AM

And now my C-max is completely dead for the second time in a week.  Both times, the radio/audio stopped working a couple of days before.

The Ford dealership is being cagey, claiming they "don't know" if it's covered by the extended warranty they sold me which is supposed to cover everything. And they don't even know what's wrong!   I've loved this car for the nearly 5 years I've had it, but if this is how it plays out, I'll go back to Honda or Toyota and will never buy another Ford again.

5 years for a 12V battery usually means it is time for a new one regardless of what may be stated.    That would be my first item to do.

 


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#11 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 October 2018 - 10:28 AM

And now my C-max is completely dead for the second time in a week.  Both times, the radio/audio stopped working a couple of days before.

The Ford dealership is being cagey, claiming they "don't know" if it's covered by the extended warranty they sold me which is supposed to cover everything. And they don't even know what's wrong!   I've loved this car for the nearly 5 years I've had it, but if this is how it plays out, I'll go back to Honda or Toyota and will never buy another Ford again.

Come on Izzy, you have had 5 great years and now you are going to give up on your NRG?  Your problem to me is your Dealer, find a more Knowledgeable one that has solved these kind of problems. Have you replaced your 12v battery? I know there have been others that have had this problem and it's been fixed. Another thing is your car is 6 yrs old, not to bad for New Tech. Do some searching on this NRG and Hybrid Forums to get some help with your problem. You will probably have to educate your dealer it seems to me.  Good Luck, the problem is solvable with some help. :smile2:   

 

Paul


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#12 OFFLINE   raucous

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Posted 07 January 2019 - 05:55 PM

And now my C-max is completely dead for the second time in a week.  Both times, the radio/audio stopped working a couple of days before.
 

I've had this problem with my 2013 for the last few years. Usually it's just once or twice a year - not a week (ouch!). I've been tracking the battery voltage for the last couple of years looking for patterns. Unfortunately the battery currently dies with only a day or two of warning so checking the voltage to catch it would have to be done daily.

 

The "audio off" problem is usually associated with the failure and so is an easier to track sign that I'm going to have battery problems. The last time I saw that I checked the battery voltage the next morning. It was a full volt below where it should have been only 8 hours after a charge. So there was clearly a drain correlated with that audio issue. Pulling the fuse for the radio both restored the audio and stopped the drain.

 

Our dealer has claimed that the audio stops working because the battery voltage is low and I've seen that claim elsewhere. I think that it's the radio/audio system that's causing the problem.

 

Oh - I've had the dealer check the 12V battery every time this has happened. They always say that it's fine. On the other hand, I have a neighbor who had this same issue with their 2013 Energi being dead in the morning multiple times in a month. Replacing the battery fixed it for them. It may be time to get mine replaced despite what the dealer says. It might still be fine to turn on the car in normal circumstances but it takes less time for the battery to go dead now if there's a problem than it did a few years ago.



#13 OFFLINE   JeanLucBlue

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:01 PM

Hey guys, I had similar problem last week. My radio stopped working. It showed that it was turned off on the screen. No amount of touching the screen would make a difference. I stopped/started the car ( it worked in the past) but to no avail. This went on for about 4 days until I could get to the dealer.

 

On the 2nd day before I went to the dealer, my backup 'beep-beep' sound stopped working. The camera worked but no sound. The next day I went out to start the car to go to the dealer to address the radio dead and back up beeps and when I pushed the start key the message that the '12-Volt battery is low' came up (and texted to my phone) then the car went dead.

 

Please note that this is the 2nd battery in my 2013 Energi.

 

I tried to jump start it to no avail ( i have been able to in the past). I eventually called AAA who came out with their portable charger (he said it had a higher voltage or something then the 12-Volt i was jumping from?) and the car started right away. I was able to drive to the dealer and this is what they did to address the problem:

 

Funny thing is, I was on my way in to the dealer with suggestions to fix this problem from what I found out on here from the various threads!

 

Anyway, they ended doing the following. So far so good but time will tell.

 

"Verified vehicle not starting, connected vehicle to IDS and performed self test, found multiple low voltage codes. Checked oasis and found TSB 16-0157 for battery discharged, Reprogrammed IPC,GWM,DC/DC,PCM and ABS module. Tested battery on rotunda tester and battery OK. Check door jam and lift gate for chaffed wiring, none found."

 

They updated my sync to v3.10 and reprogrammed sync using IDS



#14 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 05:05 PM

So something to keep in mind with the symptoms you posted is the parking sensor beeps pass through the audio system's ACM module which is almost always what fails in a 'frozen' state which causes these battery drain issues, no audio, no ability to change audio sources, etc.. Being frozen also means any voice alerts or beeps from Sync or in this case the parking sensor beeps don't get properly routed to the speakers in this state. So just a little bit of extra info to be aware of with this common issue.

 

So to try and explain what is going on in laymens terms is the audio system in our vehicles is a multi-module system. It's not like the old days where it was just the one single headunit doing everything. The following diagram is from Ford's own service manual. It seems to be missing a few small details.

 

Attached File  SDG~us~en~file=E153620_EUR_650_JPG~gen~ref.JPG   219.83KB   0 downloads

 

The APIM is responsible for just stuff like Navigation, Bluetooth Audio, USB ports, and any alerts like voice notifications, touch 'tick' sound, parking sensor beeps, etc.. This is what you see. It is the touch screen interface and UI and all those tasks therein. The ACM just handles the AM/FM/Sirius tuners, and CD playback. Just like an old school head unit like the following. No user interface. It acts at the whim of the APIM.

Attached File  Ford-Oem-Cd-Deck-Radio-Tuner-Stereo-Wire.jpg   16.93KB   0 downloads

 

Now the ACM has multiple audio INPUTS. One for the main media audio from the APIM so when you are listening to a Bluetooth audio device or playing from a USB flash drive, this will be used. Then there is a second audio input purely for alerts and voice notifications from Sync. This gets passed from an isolated source from the APIM to the ACM.

 

The ACM then acts as a glorified audio mixer and switcher at that point. When you change sources on the APIM, say from FM to Sirius or USB to FM, it is telling the APIM to switch inputs itself as needed and re-mix the audio to go out to the speakers at the correct desired volumes. When any alerts come up such as parking sensor beeps or turn by turn directions, the APIM signals this to the ACM over the Canbus while feeding said alerts on that isolated input mentioned above. The ACM then 'ducks' the main audio and mixes in the alerts at their set volume and out to the speakers.

 

So what happens in the no audio cases is quite simple. The ACM essentially locks up. Why this often ends up draining the battery is there is no longer an analog switched power line to tell it to turn off and off with the key. It is all communicated over the Canbus digitally. If the ACM is frozen it cannot shut off when told to do so even if the rest of the car is off. What also happens as you all experience is you may be on a given audio source that may still be audible. USB media can change tracks for example. Radio stations will likely be stuck but audible. But beyond that volume can't be changed, sources can't be changed, and audio can't be turned off or on. All that is handled by the ACM. And stuff like parking sensors, the touch screen 'tick' sound and other 'alerts' are being sent by the APIM but the ACM is not responding to any commands to duck the media audio and send those alerts out to the speakers so they are never heard in this state.

 

As has been covered ad nauseum in this forum, the easiest workaround which can be done in minutes is to pull the relevant fuses for the audio system for a few minutes and it'll resolve it for a while again. Basically giving it a hard reboot. If you ever see any of these odd symptoms with the audio system, anticipate needing to do this or risk a drained battery. It's as simple as that.

 

The system may seem a tad complex but it is also what has allowed Ford in the original inception of Sync to keep the costs insanely low compared to other existing infotainment systems on the market. No need to re-build existing headunits and the APIM is largely an early generation smartphone hardened for the automotive environment and the rest is software to have the various bits interact with each other in a cohesive manner.


Edited by cr08, 10 January 2019 - 05:54 PM.

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#15 OFFLINE   Billyk24

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 07:52 AM

Thanks for the reply.  Pulling fuse(s) is the quick fix with this issue.



#16 OFFLINE   komptonwhitey

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:09 AM

Does this seem to happen after you go through a car wash or drive in the rain?



#17 OFFLINE   JeanLucBlue

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 01:41 PM

Thank you! 










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