Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

Ford CEO Fields: We will fight EPA's 2025 emissions mandate


  • Please log in to reply
56 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 14 December 2016 - 06:25 AM

One other interesting note reading about this was other planets are also warming up. :headscratch:

 

Paul









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#42 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,270 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:52 AM

One other interesting note reading about this was other planets are also warming up. :headscratch:

 

Paul

 

I hadn't heard this one so I did a quick internet search like most people do.  Results promoting this idea came back from sites I never heard of like this one composed of very young  journalists; kids really see this pic   :https://insideclimatenews.org/about   

 

   https://insideclimat...DLo4aAqen8P8HAQ

 

Some other sites I tried linked their info to other sites and those to others, etc to the point I gave up and never found the original source; one went to a forum chat room such as this!

 

 

OTOH, here's a link debunking this from a volunteer group of scientists; not a PR firm funded by secret big money.   https://www.skeptica...ntermediate.htm

 

The basis of this argument is that the sun must be causing global warming and in fact, warming throughout the solar system. There are several flaws in this line of thought. Firstly, the characterisation that the whole solar system is warming is erroneous. Around 6 planets or moons out of the more than 100 bodies in the solar system have been observed to be warming. On the other hand, Uranus is cooling (Young 2001).

Secondly, the theory that a brightening sun is causing global warming falls apart when you consider the sun has shown little to no trend since the 1950s. A variety of independent measurements of solar activity including satellite data, sunspot numbers, UV levels and solar magnetograms all paint a consistent picture. Over the last 35 years of global warming,sun and climate have been moving in opposite directions.

That begs the question - what is causing warming on other planets? With the exception of Pluto, climate change on other planets are fairly understood:

  • Martian climate is primarily driven by dust and albedo. Global dust storms increase the surface albedo by settling brighter dust on dark surfaces. Higher albedo leads to more sunlight being reflected which has a cooling effect. Snapshots of Mars' surface in 1977 and 1999 find that the surface was brighter in 1977 and darker in 1999. However, this doesn't necessarily point to a long term warming trend - the 1977 snapshot was made shortly after a global dust storm while the 1999 snapshot occured before a dust storm. Consequently, there is little empirical evidence that long term global warming on Mars is occuring (Richardson 2007). More on Mars...
  • Neptune's orbit is 164 years so observations (1950 to present day) span less than a third of a Neptunian year. Climate modelling of Neptune suggests its brightening is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003). Eg - Neptune's southern hemisphere is heading into summer. More on Neptune...
  • Neptune's largest moon, Triton, has warmed since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight (Elliot 1998).
  • Jupiter's storms are fueled by the planet's own internal heat (sunlight is 4% the level of solar energy at Earth). When several storms merge into one large storm (eg - Red Spot Jr), the planet loses its ability to mix heat, causing warming at the equator and cooling at the poles (Marcus 2006). More on Jupiter...
  • Pluto's warming is not clearly understood. Pluto's orbit is much more elliptical than that of the other planets, and its rotational axis is tipped by a large angle relative to its orbit. Both factors could contribute to drastic seasonal changes. As Pluto's orbit is equivalent to 248 Earth years and observed warming spans only 14 years, it is likely this is a seasonal response (Sromovsky 2003).

 

Bottom line: in this day of fake and/or misrepresented information, it's just as important to understand the source and possible motives as it is the information itself.  


  • dr61 likes this

#43 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 14 December 2016 - 09:54 AM

You still haven't found why Mars is about twice as cold as Earth when it should be twice as hot at least. My point is CO2 isn't the cause of Climate Change. :smile2:

 

Paul



#44 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,270 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 14 December 2016 - 12:44 PM

Paul, you're chasing a red herring which is a large part of junk science. :headspin:     Mars is not Earth.  They are vastly different but your question ultimately comes down to basic chemistry.  For example, I have a jar of water and a jar of vinegar to which I add equal parts salt to both and stir.  Why aren't they the same?*      :future:

 

 

 

 

* One became a brine bath for our Thanksgiving turkey :happy feet:  and the other became an acid bath to clean corrosion off the copper bus plates of the prius battery I rebuilt.  :shift:


  • dr61 likes this

#45 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:36 PM

Paul, you're chasing a red herring which is a large part of junk science. :headspin:     Mars is not Earth.  They are vastly different but your question ultimately comes down to basic chemistry.  For example, I have a jar of water and a jar of vinegar to which I add equal parts salt to both and stir.  Why aren't they the same?*      :future:

 

 

 

 

* One became a brine bath for our Thanksgiving turkey :happy feet:  and the other became an acid bath to clean corrosion off the copper bus plates of the prius battery I rebuilt.  :shift:

You still are ignoring my point, Mars is a perfect example of showing that CO2 by it's self isn't a GWG. Nice try. :smile2: 

 

Paul 



#46 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,237 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:32 PM

Grill covers anyone?? :sneaking:

 

-=>Raja.


  • fotomoto likes this

#47 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,270 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 15 December 2016 - 10:59 AM

You still are ignoring my point, Mars is a perfect example 

 

No, I'm not.  Mars is a perfect example of a red herring.  I gave you an example/analogy=adding too much of one chemical does little to one environment while having huge effects in another.   Mars and Earth are completely different environments that has been previously pointed out here more than once.  

 

The atmospheric pressure on the Martian surface averages 600 pascals (0.087 psi; 6.0 mbar), about 0.6% of Earth's......  The Martian atmosphere consists of approximately 96% carbon dioxide, 1.9% argon, 1.9% nitrogen, and traces of free oxygencarbon monoxidewater and methane, among other gases,[1]     https://en.wikipedia...osphere_of_Mars

 

While

 

The atmosphere of Earth protects life on Earth by absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation, warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night (the diurnal temperature variation).

By volume, dry air contains 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen,[1] 0.93% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1% at sea level, and 0.4% over the entire atmosphere.  https://en.wikipedia...sphere_of_Earth

 

 

 You're missing the percentages factor.   CO2 may make up 96% of the Martian atmosphere but it (basically) has no atmosphere compared to Earth.   What would you rather have:  1% of a million dollars or 99% of one dollar?   :spend:


Edited by fotomoto, 15 December 2016 - 11:00 AM.

  • dr61 likes this

#48 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,237 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 17 December 2016 - 10:16 AM

 

 

1% of a million dollars or 99% of one dollar?

 

Not for nothing but I'd rather have 1% of 1 million...!

 

That's 10k versus 99 cents  :smile2:

 

-=>Raja.



#49 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 19 December 2016 - 08:15 AM

Here is another good Scientific read on Global Warming/Climate Change: www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3   Very interesting.  :smile2:  It Looks like we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Paul



#50 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,270 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:27 PM

Not for nothing but I'd rather have 1% of 1 million...!

 

That's 10k versus 99 cents  :smile2:

 

-=>Raja.

 

Ding, ding, ding.   We have a winner!   :happy feet:

 

Here is another good Scientific read on Global Warming/Climate Change: www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?id=3   Very interesting.  :smile2:  It Looks like we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Paul

 

From their own position statement, "While FoS does not do any original scientific research,......"      Again, check the source of the information (bold mine).  "In the course of an internal review and audit begun in March of 2007, the University determined that some of the research funds accepted on behalf of the Friends of Science "had been used to support a partisan viewpoint on climate change."   http://www.sourcewat...ends_of_Science   

 

FOS runs political ads and has known ties to the oil industry in Canada (tar sands) of which the USA is its biggest customer.  Some of these Oil&Gas industry antics reminds me of this:

 

Attached File  smoking ad.jpg   462.14KB   0 downloads


  • dr61 likes this

#51 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 19 December 2016 - 02:56 PM

Ding, ding, ding.   We have a winner!   :happy feet:

 

 

From their own position statement, "While FoS does not do any original scientific research,......"      Again, check the source of the information (bold mine).  "In the course of an internal review and audit begun in March of 2007, the University determined that some of the research funds accepted on behalf of the Friends of Science "had been used to support a partisan viewpoint on climate change."   http://www.sourcewat...ends_of_Science   

 

FOS runs political ads and has known ties to the oil industry in Canada (tar sands) of which the USA is its biggest customer.  Some of these Oil&Gas industry antics reminds me of this:

 

attachicon.gifsmoking ad.jpg

So I need to go through all of your Post to show how bias they are. Unfortunately I don't have time for this.  

 

Like I said before "I guess we will have to agree to disagree".   Fortunately President Trump will bring some sanity back to the EPA so they are only worried about Air/Water Pollution. CO2 isn't a pollutant. :smile2:

 

Paul

 



#52 OFFLINE   bro1999

bro1999

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 499 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • Locationmaryland
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2012 Chevy Volt / 2017 Volt / 2017 Bolt EV

Posted 21 December 2016 - 03:18 AM

Like I said before "I guess we will have to agree to disagree". Fortunately President Trump will bring some sanity back to the EPA so they are only worried about Air/Water Pollution. CO2 isn't a pollutant. :smile2:

Paul


Supreme Court said otherwise. They ruled the EPA can regulate CO2 emissions. But what do those bozos know.


Edited by bro1999, 21 December 2016 - 03:23 AM.


#53 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 21 December 2016 - 08:26 AM

Supreme Court said otherwise. They ruled the EPA can regulate CO2 emissions. But what do those bozos know.

Congress passes Law and the Supreme Court miss interpreted it so Congress needs to amend or come up with  New Law. :gaah:  Or President Trump can make Presidential Order and make it go away.  :smile2:  President Obama made plenty. :nono: LOL

 

Paul



#54 OFFLINE   wantaPHV

wantaPHV

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationNew England
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:'14 SEL Energi and '13 SV LEAF

Posted 22 December 2016 - 08:29 PM

I'm not saying Climate change isn't happening, It's been happening since the Earth was formed.  :smile2:  You haven't given any evidence that Man is causing it. Where is the proof. :headscratch:  Remember all the heat the earth gets comes from the Sun and the Sun has a 11 year cycle, the number of Sunspots very from a large number when the Sun is the Hottest to practically none when the Sun is putting out the least amount heat during the cycle. This is one of the reasons for climate change. Lookup Wikipedia Solar Cycle. :smile2:

 

Paul

 

There's plenty of evidence that we are causing the current uptick in temperatures.  Here's a nice summary of it: 

 

 


Edited by wantaPHV, 22 December 2016 - 08:31 PM.


#55 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 23 December 2016 - 10:45 AM

There's plenty of evidence that we are causing the current uptick in temperatures.  Here's a nice summary of it: 

 

 

Really? Nice try, Your info is eleven years old.  No need to post information that isn't current.  Environmentalist have dropped Global Warming for Climate Change, kind of a catch all phrase.  We should be in a cooling phase now with Solar sun spot activity at minimum for the next few years. :smile2:

 

Paul



#56 OFFLINE   wantaPHV

wantaPHV

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationNew England
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:'14 SEL Energi and '13 SV LEAF

Posted 23 December 2016 - 08:44 PM

Sun spot cycles are 11 years -- and tiny compared to the temperature change we're observing.  If you believe sun spots are what are driving things, look again at 0:37 in that video.  Not much of an impact there since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, especially compared to the impact of rising greenhouse gas levels.

 

While Milankovitch cycles are believed to be the driving force of the ice age's periods of glaciation over the last half million years, the overwhelming scientific consensus is that (as shown in this video) there's no natural explanation for the current upswing in temperatures -- and it matches up extremely well with what we'd expect from increasing greenhouse gas levels (and deforestation) from human activity.

 

I don't have any skin in this game other than concern for the future of the planet, because I've seen the consensus grow on this over the last few decades.

Personally, I think it'd be great if the scientific consensus on this were wrong, and we didn't have to include it on our list of things to worry about, but I just don't see it.  You point out some very basic things like 'climate has always been changing' (true, but natural factors don't explain the current change -- human impact does), and the CO2 is a small % of the Earth's atmosphere (true, but it still plays a huge role in warming/cooling cycles, and has throughout geologic history), and that the term 'Climate change' has become more popular (because the way air and water currents distribute increased heat around the planet does/will vary, so the term better reflects our understanding).

 

If you really stop and think about it -- all baggage of economic, political, and social influences aside -- which is more likely?  That the global scientific consensus on this is wrong, or that the well-publicized funding of climate denial in the US by the fossil fuel industry over recent decades has had an impact on quite a few people, such as yourself?  No shame in that -- just something to think about.

 

And politically, my 'side' has 100% lost on this all of a sudden, so we'll see how much the new administration can push us into further experimenting with the Earth's thermostat.  Seems awfully short-sighted to me, but here's hoping that the very long shot of the scientific consensus on this issue being wrong is actually right -- though I don't think that's how science works! (ie, wanting something to be true does not make it true)

 

 

Really? Nice try, Your info is eleven years old.  No need to post information that isn't current.  Environmentalist have dropped Global Warming for Climate Change, kind of a catch all phrase.  We should be in a cooling phase now with Solar sun spot activity at minimum for the next few years. :smile2:

 

Paul


Edited by wantaPHV, 23 December 2016 - 08:45 PM.


#57 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 754 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 24 December 2016 - 01:24 PM

One  of the positives of increasing CO2 is improved Plant Growth around the Globe.  http://www.plantsnee...?menuitemid=329   :smile2:

 

Paul










0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·