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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
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Protecting the HVB capacity during the hot NC summer of 2016.


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44 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   sporkinum

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:20 PM

 So.......(from my question in another thread).......I did learn something here that I should have figured out anyway.......I would be wise to not plug in and start charging after just arriving home from exhausting the battery. Plug in and set to charge later when possible. 

 

 Anyone fiddled around with a system to increase battery cooling? Seems to me that it wouldn't have been too difficult for Ford to have run a vent to the battery that cools when A/C/ is on.

 

 Anyone on here swapped batteries out? How big of a job is it? I see battery packs out of wrecked cars with 15k on them for $7-$800 that should still have lots of life in them. I didn't really buy the car to "save money". I simply like playing with the technology. Having something a little different. I know it would take forever to make that money back. That's not the point.

 

 If I thought I could charge the batteries without a care for another 40K and then swap out to a low mileage replacement, I might be happy doing that.

I downloaded this in case I may need to swap the battery in the future. http://elvsolutions....moval_Final.pdf


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#22 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 06:36 PM

I mentioned this in a former post, but on my 2016, I can tell that Ford changed the highway battery programming. It was evident the moment I drove it on the freeway - very different from the 2014. Basically it did not go into EV mode as much.

 

Of course, I don't have many miles yet (about 1K), and I intend to charge only at night in the summer, between Midnight and 0800. We will see how it works out! I plan to keep this one a long time, unlike my 2014 lease.



#23 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 10:20 PM

What do you see in the new highway programming Steve?  Can you describe it more and/or better still shoot a youtube video to show it?

 

-=>Raja.



#24 OFFLINE   bdginmo

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 07:59 AM

Is this change in behavior evident while in EV+Auto or EV+Later?



#25 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 08:34 PM

It is subtle. In EV Later, on my old car, when I was on the highway, I observed it going to EV very often. When I drove the 2016, it seemed to keep the engine on more, and use less EV. I suppose it isn't a difference most folks would notice, but I kept my eyes on the EV displays as a matter of course in my old car.

 

Unfortunately, I have traded cars with my wife, and I don't drive it now. We got a Subaru Outback (for her), and the seats hurt her back - but the Energi seats are great. She didn't like driving my 2014, but she absolutely loves driving this one. There is something very different all around than the other one - it also seems to ride differently. Perhaps because it is using less air in the tires, I'm set at 42 rather than 50 this time. But I had the other one that low occasionally, and it didn't seem as good a ride. Whatever it is, we both like this one better.

 

Raja, no, sorry, I don't do videos while driving, and I don't have a dashcam or gopro. And I don't have a before/after anyway.



#26 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 06:25 AM

Well here is an easy question for you to answer Steve since no video or anything for me to look at.  Did Ford lower the threshold in EV later for the battery running?  Usually its 1.5 to 2 bars depending on conditions, did you notice this value drop as the speed picks up on the highway to say maybe 1 bar?  Simple thing to look at and see.

 

Hey maybe Ford watched my videos about how to increase the MPG on the highway by keeping the engine running and followed suit in later models!   :wink:

 

-=>Raja.



#27 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

Well here is an easy question for you to answer Steve since no video or anything for me to look at.  Did Ford lower the threshold in EV later for the battery running?  Usually its 1.5 to 2 bars depending on conditions, did you notice this value drop as the speed picks up on the highway to say maybe 1 bar?  Simple thing to look at and see.

 

Hey maybe Ford watched my videos about how to increase the MPG on the highway by keeping the engine running and followed suit in later models!   :wink:

 

-=>Raja.

Raja,

You mean that the "energy available" part of the graph gets to 1.5 or 2? I never noticed. Assuming I get to drive the car on the freeway again, I'll try and check that out.



#28 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 05 March 2017 - 09:24 PM

I mean in the Empower screen while in Auto mode.  There is a blue box of how much ev power you can use before you break out into the ICE.  

 

If you say the car EVs less on the highway, then logic would state that this box gets smaller with speed.

 

-=>Raja.



#29 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 06 March 2017 - 06:12 PM

I mean in the Empower screen while in Auto mode.  There is a blue box of how much ev power you can use before you break out into the ICE.  

 

If you say the car EVs less on the highway, then logic would state that this box gets smaller with speed.

 

-=>Raja.

Raja,

Yes, I knew what you meant.



#30 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 04:01 AM

My wife has two cars, the '13 Energi and a '15 BMW 535xi GT.  I find the ride in the Energi more plush.  You feel a lot more bumps in the road in the BMW set a 35 PSI front and 38 PSI rear per placard.  The Energi I set to 38 PSI both front and rear per placard as well...

 

One could tweak the pressure up to the maximum for that extra MPG, at the cost of a more plush ride, and help protect the battery from degradation by not using it as much, in particular in really hot weather.  I guess I wanted something simpler when we got a plug in hybrid.  We didn't buy a plug-in, knowing the caveat that we needed to do something special to protect it's battery.  I am as such resistant to doing so because of this.  If we had known that the battery would be an issue and we'd need to "take care of it", then maybe we wouldn't have gotten one in the first place.  Ours seems to have experienced some degradation in capacity, but I chalk it up to use.  No, I don't think it's abuse.  The range of the battery was around 21 miles, maybe it is 18 miles now, but I haven't had to worry is it too hot to charge the battery now, do I set the charge later time even though our solar is not on TOU, what to do when going up a mountain to preserve it, etc.  I just drive, and save burning some more gas.  That's what was advertised, you simply plug it in when you can/want to, but you don't need to because you have the ICE...

 

My son just got a plush pencil case that is pretty desirable, and hard to find, for children his age around here.  I told him to put it in a zip lock when he took it to school to protect it from damage.  Obviously that takes some enjoyment/utility out of it.  I guess it all comes down to becoming a matter of opportunity cost.  Do I keep using the battery, or am I worried about degradation in range.  My wife does not complain about the 18 mile range which doesn't make it completely to her work 20 miles away.  (She is not having to fill gas more frequently enough to feel it in the pocket I guess...)



#31 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:19 PM

I wish I knew this before the summer of 2015 when I lost that kWh of capacity.

 

Tom

You and me both Tom.  

 

I lost 1.4 kWH capacity in the summer of 15.  Down below 4 now.   Wish I had a fridge to charge in (or the battery had better cooling).



#32 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:23 PM

 

One could tweak the pressure up to the maximum for that extra MPG, at the cost of a more plush ride, and help protect the battery from degradation by not using it as much, in particular in really hot weather.  I guess I wanted something simpler when we got a plug in hybrid.  We didn't buy a plug-in, knowing the caveat that we needed to do something special to protect it's battery.  I am as such resistant to doing so because of this.  If we had known that the battery would be an issue and we'd need to "take care of it", then maybe we wouldn't have gotten one in the first place.

Well see how it plays out as more Li HVBs get cooked.   

 

BMW and Nissan are guarantying minimum degradation or replacement.    As long as gas is cheap and/or CAFE standards are rolled back, consumers may get shafted.



#33 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 04:55 PM

Today I drove around until I found a spot in the shade, 2 times in 2 different places, it was in the high 80's here.  Yes it may be anal, but then again it can also be worth it.  Looking back I've done that alot, to keep the temps down in the car as baking in the sun is bad I agree, and when you live in a hot climate well no matter what its going to be bad when the temp doesn't drop at night, etc.  One guy here did put an AC in the garage to keep the battery cooler. 

 

-=>Raja.



#34 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 07:13 PM

Yeah, I'm not too happy they decided to go this route with cooling and not sure exactly what the thought process was in that regard. I know with the Ford Escape hybrids when they first came out, the initial 2005-2008 model years had a separate AC loop for cooling the battery directly and also had an outside air intake. Apparently starting in 2009 they eliminated that and went with passive cooling and cabin air only like we have now.



#35 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 07:16 PM

I had a 2008 FEH. They had battery cooling in the car until the 2010 model. 2009 introduced electric AC.



#36 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 17 May 2017 - 08:03 PM

Well after today tonight I went to plug in my Cmax and let it charge up a bit.  1/2 hour later I check on it and the charging fan is racing in the back behind the right seat.  I check the air coming out and its like a blow dryer (hot).

 

So I unplugged the car, going to let it rest overnight and will charge it tomorrow morning up some instead.  It was a hot day here, and tomorrow is hotter.  I need to drive it tomorrow to patriots place and back.  Usually I just put 40% in it and I can get there and recharge while I'm there, but I'm not sure I should do that tomorrow, charge in the heat.  It will be around 6:15pm when I get there, but it still might not be a good idea.  Maybe better to charge it in the shade inside the garage tomorrow and just park it in the shade somewhere at the pats stadium area.

 

-=>Raja.



#37 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:45 AM

Everyday my fan is racing when I get home from work and pushes hot air throughout the charge.

#38 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 05:58 AM

Well after today tonight I went to plug in my Cmax and let it charge up a bit.  1/2 hour later I check on it and the charging fan is racing in the back behind the right seat.  I check the air coming out and its like a blow dryer (hot).

 

So I unplugged the car, going to let it rest overnight and will charge it tomorrow morning up some instead.  It was a hot day here, and tomorrow is hotter.  I need to drive it tomorrow to patriots place and back.  Usually I just put 40% in it and I can get there and recharge while I'm there, but I'm not sure I should do that tomorrow, charge in the heat.  It will be around 6:15pm when I get there, but it still might not be a good idea.  Maybe better to charge it in the shade inside the garage tomorrow and just park it in the shade somewhere at the pats stadium area.

 

-=>Raja.

The hot weather has hit here this week with temperatures of 90ºf yesterday and a bit hotter today. Drove EV yesterday morning then recharged. For the afternoon trip the battery got over 102ºf so i switched to hybrid for most of the trip. My general rule is that if I driven earlier in the day and the outside temperature gets above 85ºf no more charging is done. usually I select value charging to give the HVB plenty of time to cool down. Checked this morning before any driving and the HVB is 82ºf while the outside temperature is 75ºf. Glad I only have one trip to do this afternoon since it will be hot.

 

Tom



#39 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:19 AM

I had a chance the other day to check out the effects of EV driving in the AM without using AC then taking the same round trip in the afternoon with the AC running. These trips are each all EV and did not deplete the HVB. The first leg of each trip always uses more HVB power due to more upslope driving. The return trip takes advantage of the downslope to reduce kWh usage.

The morning round trip took 3.2kWh and the afternoon trip took 3.7kWh. The extra .5kWh used for the afternoon trip was well spent for the comfort the AC provided in the cabin. The AC may also help keep heat building up in the HVB but this is hard to determine. I attached the driving logs to show the details. Enjoy!

 

The AC initially started out at 1.5 bars on the power screen but within a couple of miles drops quite a bit and settles around 1/2 bar for most of the trip. 

 

By the end of the second trip the HVB got to 102ºf while the outside temperature approached  89ºf. With hotter weather the second trip will have to be done partly using EV Later.

 

It the temperature gets to 100ºf I guess I'll be driving my Ford Ranger.

 

Tom

 

Attached Files


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#40 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 18 May 2017 - 06:45 AM

If its only 115 mpge the first part of the trip climbing out of your house maybe you ought to use the engine then and the battery for the rest of the way.  This way you don't draw it hard climbing as that is the #1 reason of the fastest temp increase in the battery.

 

I'm still on the fence about the AC, its for our comfort, but I am pretty sure if you use it that it makes the battery hotter not cooler as you're drawing more power out and the cooler air maybe at best makes it net zero or still slightly hotter at the end of the trip.

 

-=>Raja.










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