Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

Low Battery capacity thread (4.5 kwh or lower via myfordmobile)


  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#61 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

Levi Smith

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Facebook
  • PipPip
  • 850 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationUpstate NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi 303A W Panoramic Roof

Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:49 PM

I wonder how much difference it really makes as well...

 

But one point I think you're missing is that plugging in immediately after would actually be a GOOD thing as it will run the battery fan and help keep it cooler.  But yes it may very well be better to have value charging set so that it doesn't do full power charging until later.


  • cr08 likes this







Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#62 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 520 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Honda Clarity PHEV

Posted 26 January 2018 - 08:12 AM

June 29, 2013 delivery

 

Current ODO:  55141.0 miles

EV:  34439.3 miles

 

last full drain 1/23/18 16.4 EV miles, 4.0 kWh, trip total 20.8 miles, FE 172 MPG, 3.2 miles from Regen.

 

Charge whenever mostly,  switching to value charge from 10 pm to 8 am because of change from domestic to TOU electricity rate.


Edited by jzchen, 26 January 2018 - 08:13 AM.


#63 OFFLINE   vossman77

vossman77

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Region:U.S. Mississippi Valley
  • LocationChicago, IL
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-max Energi & 2007 Escape Hybrid

Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:11 AM

2013 Ford Cmax with slowly degrading battery.

 

3.8 kWh (14.7 EV miles) on Feb 19

4.0 kWh (14.7 EV miles) on Feb 21

 

I am going to log the numbers as a go for a couple of months to provide to Ford. The system I use is to charge to full capacity, drive in EV now for 20 mile commute then log into myfordmobile.com -> "My Driving" ->  "Trip & Charge Log" and screenshot the values. We'll see how this goes. I am sure Ford will tell me to buzz off.


  • Stevenwalt@yahoo.com likes this

#64 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 520 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Honda Clarity PHEV

Posted 23 February 2018 - 04:27 AM

2013 Ford Cmax with slowly degrading battery.

 

3.8 kWh (14.7 EV miles) on Feb 19

4.0 kWh (14.7 EV miles) on Feb 21

 

I am going to log the numbers as a go for a couple of months to provide to Ford. The system I use is to charge to full capacity, drive in EV now for 20 mile commute then log into myfordmobile.com -> "My Driving" ->  "Trip & Charge Log" and screenshot the values. We'll see how this goes. I am sure Ford will tell me to buzz off.

 

I opened the warranty booklet somewhat recently because I am hearing a noise that I am worried could be the transmission, and was wondering the duration of the transmission warranty.  In the process I found the booklet clearly states that battery degradation is considered normal and is not covered....



#65 OFFLINE   cr08

cr08

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 171 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ice Storm C-Max Energi

Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:08 AM

Transmission in most cases should fall under the hybrid warranty which for you in CA is 10yr/150k mi.



#66 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 520 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Honda Clarity PHEV

Posted 23 February 2018 - 01:25 PM

Transmission in most cases should fall under the hybrid warranty which for you in CA is 10yr/150k mi.

Thank you cr08! I did find that. I replaced a bottom out scratched roll restrictor bracket, and am left with some scratches on the transmission case. I wonder what service/Ford would have to say about the scratched casing? (Worried)

Actually remember reading 15 years, but I'm afraid I'm not home to verify...

Edited by jzchen, 23 February 2018 - 01:28 PM.


#67 OFFLINE   jzchen

jzchen

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 520 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationArcadia, CA
  • My C-MAX:None
  • Current Vehicle:2018 Honda Clarity PHEV

Posted 24 February 2018 - 06:16 AM

cr08 is correct, it is 10 yrs/150000 miles...

#68 OFFLINE   raucous

raucous

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationPNW
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi

Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:13 PM

Here are the results of a survey of Tesla owners on what they've experienced for battery degradation:
 
   
They're seeing more than 90% capacity left after 160,000 miles. 
 
So it's not that you can't make a long-life EV battery pack... I wonder what Tesla did right here and what Ford did wrong.


#69 OFFLINE   LittleBlueCar

LittleBlueCar

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationOklahoma
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 16 April 2018 - 11:26 PM

 

Here are the results of a survey of Tesla owners on what they've experienced for battery degradation:
 
   
They're seeing more than 90% capacity left after 160,000 miles. 
 
So it's not that you can't make a long-life EV battery pack... I wonder what Tesla did right here and what Ford did wrong.

 

 

Tesla batteries have heatsinks that are liquid cooled with propylene glycol - basically antifreeze.

 

All of the CMAX battery systems are air cooled. Only the Focus Electric has a liquid cooled system.

 

It was just a way for Ford to save money from what I can tell.

 

However, according to an interview between SAE and Ford's chief engineer on the subject, there's no harm in charging the car regardless of the outside temperature. The battery has safety systems to not let it exceed a certain temperature level. I can only assume, then, that the battery stops charging once it reaches 140*F and won't continue to charge until the interior temperature drops below that.

 

I live in a fairly hot climate during the summer, but my car is always in the shade when charging at home, so it never really exceeds ambient by too much - certainly not 140*F - but others might be able to chime in with whether or not their car goes over 140*F inside when they're parked somewhere in the sun and charging simultaneously.

 

http://articles.sae.org/11705/



#70 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,080 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:18 AM

The bigger the battery, the less hot it gets when you load it.  In other words if you have a battery that goes 30 miles and you put a 100 amp on it to accelerate, that's alot harder than a battery that goes 10 times further or is 11 times bigger (300 miles or 85KW) with the same 100 amp load.

 

That's #1, #2 is that Tesla in general tells you not to charge up to 100% to prolong battery life unless you need it for a trip.  You can set their cars to charge to 80%, Ford will go to 100 if you plug it in and forget it.  True 100% Ford is not 100% on the battery, probably neither is Tesla's, but any charge level lower than another is better for the battery.  You want to store you car with the battery not full, the lower the better as sitting time is concerned.

 

#3, it may be possible, but I'm not sure, that Tesla can manipulate the charge settings as the battery gets older.  For example, when brand new maybe they only charge the pack to 4v per cell, but as time goes on and battery age goes up, they can slowly increase the charge level to 4.01, 4.02, 4.05, 4.10 and make it seem like the battery still has the same capacity as initially you never used the full potential of the pack.  Don't quote me on this, its an idea I have that may or may not be true.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 17 April 2018 - 07:20 AM.

  • ptjones likes this

#71 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 670 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:36 PM

Coming back from Orlando, FL yesterday with OT 90*F and my HVB got up to 111*F so I turned the A/C and it only dropped 2 degrees. SOC was running between 38-50%. I'm thinking I must be at 120*F for HVB going across AZ at 105*F.  BTW my EV% was 57.5  and 54 mpg. :smile2:

 

Paul



#72 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,080 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:07 AM

^^ that's too hot I don't like it.  Maybe in the hot summer days I will refrain from using my car until evenings this year.

 

-=>Raja.



#73 OFFLINE   ptjones

ptjones

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 670 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNewnan,GA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2013 CMAX Hybrid

Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:37 AM

I'm thinking if you keep the SOC below 80% and use EV for cruising and not accelerating. Bottom line monitor HVB temps when it's HOT.  I think you are over thinking this thing. :headscratch:  I have 191k miles with 51.5% EV and I'm getting the best MPG's that I have ever gotten. :smile2:  

 

Paul



#74 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,080 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 20 April 2018 - 09:49 AM

Yeah well I'm at 78mpg and I'm trying to keep my battery as healthy as possible this time around.  If it means I won't use the battery this summer, then I won't just drive around in EV later when its really hot out.   We'll see how it goes now that the winter cold battery security blanket is leaving us.

 

-=>Raja.

 

 

Attached Files



#75 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted 21 April 2018 - 12:59 PM

Hi Raja,

I thought that with your previous C-Max that you barely lost any HVB capacity. How much capacity did you have remaining in the previous car when you changed to the newer model?

#76 OFFLINE   cr08

cr08

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 171 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationColumbus, Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ice Storm C-Max Energi

Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:43 PM

Honestly now a year down the road and with the EV/HEV/PHEV space opening up a bit more, I've changed my own perspective a little on all of this. As much as I am still annoyed at Ford's lack of proper thermal management on the batteries, I am not going out of my way to the very extremes to eke out every last bit of battery capacity over the life of the vehicle. I still make sure to run EV Later on highways at all times, limit EV acceleration to 2 bars max, crack the windows while charging during the summer in our hot garage (I am considering looking into a temp controlled vent fan to go into the open vent in our garage), etc.. However as this is my only car there is not going to be any outright restriction of when I drive it. If windows down or running A/C don't help the battery temps, then oh well. If it means 5-6 years down the line I have reduced EV range then so be it. It's a great car for what it is, I love it, but others coming out are going to be better and I am anxiously waiting to see what Ford's offerings are going to be down the line. With the increased competition in the xEV space if they don't take care to improve in some of the key concern areas such as better range in PHEV's and better thermal management, other manufacturers are simply going to eat their lunch. And as much as I love my Ford, I am not averse to shopping around if other makes have better designed xEV's. Don't care if it is Ford, Chevy, Honda, etc.. All I know is my next car down the line WILL be a PHEV minimum. I've gotten the bug and I'm not going back to straight ICE at this point as my daily driver.

 

Right now I'm still waiting to see what my summer mileage is going to be with no heat usage. Still hasn't warmed up enough here for that. Looks like for the next week probably it is going to remain cold in the morning in the low 40s or below but warm up to 50s and 60s in the afternoon. So have to use heat in the morning but it is comfortable enough to go without around lunch time and leaving work. On the few days we've had all day decent temps by no-heat range has shown 19 miles beginning of the day but is likely still skewed due to lower temps. This is all city stop and go with 45mph speed limits or below. Generally takeoffs are 2 bars accel for the most part to speed. I make no extreme attempts to hypermile, try to keep the braking coach to 90% minimum but no promises due to other idiots and traffic.



#77 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,080 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 21 April 2018 - 01:59 PM

Hi Rick,

 

I'd say I lost 5% of the capacity after 73k miles, 4 years and 43 of those in EV.  Last time I drained the battery I still got 5.4kwh out of it.  But, I made some mistakes that I recall, so this time around I'm going to be better.  I remember being in FL in December and using the battery alot,  Charging every day twice and putting like 60 miles on the battery daily.  Also I remember charging it in Vermont in the afternoon and I get back to the car and the car is a sauna, ouch, bad idea couldn't have been the best for the battery.  I disconnected it right away and left with only 50% charge on the HVB.

 

Anyway, I strive to do better this time around.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 21 April 2018 - 01:59 PM.

  • ptjones likes this

#78 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:24 PM

Only 5% loss in four years is excellent in my book.  

 

According to BatteryUniversity.com, the best place to leave the charge of the battery is at 3.92 V per cell or 329.3 V for the pack.  "In terms of longevity, the optimal charge voltage is 3.92V/cell. Battery experts believe that this threshold eliminates all voltage-related stresses; going lower may not gain further benefits but induce other symptoms."  This is to minimize damage due to overcharge or under charge and it is better to err on the low side.  On my vehicle that is at about 88% displayed charge level.  I don't need 100% to get to work so I'm going to cut off the charge with a timer one hour before the value charge finishes.  Hopefully that will limit the charge to less than 88%.  Here is a link to the article: http://batteryuniver...based_batteries

 

 

I've been recording the value of the estimated kWh to empty vs state of charge (SOC).  For some reason the internal 100% SOC jumped up in kWh.  Previously the internal 100% SOC calculated to 6.5 kWh.  Today it worked out to 7.0 kWh.  Perhaps this is due to the warmer weather today.  Previously the battery was always relatively cold at about 50°F (10°C) and today it was at 75°F (24°C).  See the graph attached.

Attached Files


Edited by RickOzone, 22 April 2018 - 06:04 PM.


#79 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,080 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 22 April 2018 - 05:34 PM

I'll say this, always strive to park the car in the shade, and when you get home roll down the windows in the garage to let the heat out.  Today we went to providence and back, drove 67 miles round trip and used up the entire HVB without recharging. Even though the temps were cool, in the 50's maybe 60, the HVB got to 84F.  Highest its been this year so far.  This evening 4 hours later the battery is still at 80F.  Even though the garage is cool the car is still warm inside from the sun earlier in the day while driving.  I rolled down the windows and within 15 minutes the HVB dropped to 78.  Note to remember roll down the windows to let the heat out of the car at night.

 

-=>Raja.



#80 OFFLINE   RickOzone

RickOzone

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 41 posts
  • Region:Canada Ontario
  • LocationToronto
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Energi

Posted 22 April 2018 - 06:27 PM

Once upon a time in another post, someone said they put a fan on top of the HVB intake grill.  However, he complained that it made the inside of the car too hot.  If he opened the windows or turned on the air conditioning then this strategy to keep the battery cooler should work.










0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·