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Low Battery capacity thread (4.5 kwh or lower via myfordmobile)


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105 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 04:45 AM

I'm fairly new to the C-Max, 103,000 miles and I haven't found how to see the capacity of the battery, anybody point me in the right direction?

 

Start with a full HVB. reset one of the trip odometers. Drive until the HVB is depleted and the trip odometer should show the amount of kWhs used. 

The kWhs should also be available in the driving log in MFM.

 

Tom


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#42 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 19 November 2017 - 08:34 AM

Can someone with a 2013 do a test for me?

 

Start from home with 100% charge level.  Go to EV later right away.  Reset the trip meter.  Drive until your HVB drops to about 91 to 94% WITHOUT allowing the engine to start by being careful with the accelerator staying under the threshold of it kicking in.  When you get down into the low 90% charge level, stop and look at the trip meter.  You should have 3 miles +/- 1 mile maybe in miles traveled.  What is the KWH used?

 

On my 2017 I noticed it doesn't count KWH at all in EV later, its a flaw in my opinion.  I don't remember the 2013 to be like that.  So yesterday I drove in EV later from the house to route 109, its was like around 3.8 miles.  I looked at the trip meter, I had 0.0 kwh used and the battery was down to 91%.  No wonder when I switch from EV later back and forth to Auto I used up the whole battery charge and get something like 4.6kwh out.

 

Let me know guys and thanks!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 19 November 2017 - 08:35 AM.


#43 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 06:27 AM

Can someone with a 2013 do a test for me?

 

Start from home with 100% charge level.  Go to EV later right away.  Reset the trip meter.  Drive until your HVB drops to about 91 to 94% WITHOUT allowing the engine to start by being careful with the accelerator staying under the threshold of it kicking in.  When you get down into the low 90% charge level, stop and look at the trip meter.  You should have 3 miles +/- 1 mile maybe in miles traveled.  What is the KWH used?

 

On my 2017 I noticed it doesn't count KWH at all in EV later, its a flaw in my opinion.  I don't remember the 2013 to be like that.  So yesterday I drove in EV later from the house to route 109, its was like around 3.8 miles.  I looked at the trip meter, I had 0.0 kwh used and the battery was down to 91%.  No wonder when I switch from EV later back and forth to Auto I used up the whole battery charge and get something like 4.6kwh out.

 

Let me know guys and thanks!

 

-=>Raja.

Probably a bit difficult for me to do right now in the cold and since I live in hills.  But I'm about 90% sure you are correct, it DOES count KWH in EV later.  I know I've seen it at some points when I've done it before. If I think of it, I'll see if I can try it a bit.

 

Well, actually from what you're describing, wouldn't it be a valid test if I just reset my trip meter and started the car in EV later and kept the engine off and see KWH accumulating even if I'm not starting at 100% charge?



#44 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 07:37 AM

Yes but would be harder to do as you can't drive as much in EV later without starting the engine when the battery is not full.

 

I did it from full and drove almost 4 miles, should have used at least 0.6kwh depending on how you drive, with hills might be more.

 

In any case try it and let me know?

 

Thanks Levi,

 

-=>Raja.



#45 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:24 AM

Can someone with a 2013 do a test for me?

 

Start from home with 100% charge level.  Go to EV later right away.  Reset the trip meter.  Drive until your HVB drops to about 91 to 94% WITHOUT allowing the engine to start by being careful with the accelerator staying under the threshold of it kicking in.  When you get down into the low 90% charge level, stop and look at the trip meter.  You should have 3 miles +/- 1 mile maybe in miles traveled.  What is the KWH used?

 

On my 2017 I noticed it doesn't count KWH at all in EV later, its a flaw in my opinion.  I don't remember the 2013 to be like that.  So yesterday I drove in EV later from the house to route 109, its was like around 3.8 miles.  I looked at the trip meter, I had 0.0 kwh used and the battery was down to 91%.  No wonder when I switch from EV later back and forth to Auto I used up the whole battery charge and get something like 4.6kwh out.

 

Let me know guys and thanks!

 

-=>Raja.

 

I attempted to do your  EV Later test but due to the up hill drive right after leaving my house I only got 1/2 a mile before the ICE came on. I did record .2kWh in the trip odometer prior to the ICE starting. The center screen was still at 100% when the ICE started. If I get a chance I will try again when driving on more level roads. At least I did prove the 2013 C-Max does record some kWh usage in EV later prior to starting the ICE.

 

Tom



#46 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 November 2017 - 02:17 PM

Thanks Tom, appreciate it and I thought so (counts KWH in EV later)  2017 clearly doesn't, a bit of programming change on Ford's part, but it puzzles me some of the decisions they make.

 

-=>Raja.



#47 OFFLINE   Milkman

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 02:26 PM

Start with a full HVB. reset one of the trip odometers. Drive until the HVB is depleted and the trip odometer should show the amount of kWhs used. 

The kWhs should also be available in the driving log in MFM.

 

Tom

 

Thanks Tom, I started with a full HVB and drove till it was depleted, turned off the car and the display said 5.6Kwhs, does that sound right?



#48 OFFLINE   jaimi

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Posted 22 November 2017 - 02:37 PM

2013 CMax Energi

36638 miles  (purchased new)
Southwest Missouri. 
 
3.7 KWh used until empty - went 9.2 miles.
 
What a disappointment. I can't even go to work and back anymore without the gas engine kicking on (it's a 10.2 mile trip - when I first purchased the car I could go to work and back twice on a charge).
 
Car is garaged over night. 99% of the time it's plugged in. Usually just drive to work and back, occasionally take longer trips (once a month maybe). 


#49 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 23 November 2017 - 05:38 AM

Thanks Tom, I started with a full HVB and drove till it was depleted, turned off the car and the display said 5.6Kwhs, does that sound right?

 

5.6kWh is a great result. Looks like your HVB is working like new.

 

Tom


Edited by Tom_NC_1, 23 November 2017 - 05:39 AM.

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#50 OFFLINE   Stevenwalt@yahoo.com

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 04:57 PM

Aloha Fellow Cmax Owners! 

 

I happen to have a JuiceBox level 2 charger that has a LED readout and will tell me the charge rate and totals. A couple of months ago, I noticed that It stopped charging at the 3.1 Kwh rate and would only go 1.7 Kwh at 120V. Dealer did a system software update that corrected for about a month and a half, then it went back to 1.7 Kwh at 120V. So, I took it back and they kept it for a week, cleared codes and did multiple charge discharge cycles and suggested it was an intermittent problem and suggested using the 110v cord that came with the car. It did correct for now, but I'm concerned it will happen again. Of course this is inefficient and causes more wear and tear on the battery and the cooling fans run harder, etc. I'm also thinking this could be happening to other owners and they don't have a clue as they most likely don't have a read out on the chargers. Also, it will take in about 5 Kwh and discharge about 3.8-4 Kwh in driving before the ICE kicks in. Thoughts anyone? Thanks/Mahalo!   

 



#51 OFFLINE   spirilis

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 05:29 PM

The JuiceBox is running at 120V? It should be sending whatever voltage it has... sounds like the C-Max BCCM module is throttling itself? Bad cooling fan or something?
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#52 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:56 AM

Your HVB is showing signs of lost capacity. It has been my experience that lost capacity is most likely when the HVB gets overheated. I actually limit charging during high summer temperatures. If the overnight lows stay at or above 80ºf I stop charging altogether. I use a ScanGauge to monitor the actual HVB temperature and since then I change my driving and charging activities to prevent HVB overheating. This has prevented any further capacity degradation.

 

During driving high HVB temperatures will cause the car to reduce available EV power or simply stay in EV later to protect the HVB. As for the charging rate problem, high temperatures will cause the charge rate to drop or even stop. As a test make sure the HVB is cool. Then charge the HVB. It should charge at the normal rate if heat was causing the problem your currently seeing.

 

If there is some fault codes found by the dealer service let us know what they were since that is an indication something else might be wrong. 

 

Tom



#53 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:37 AM

Tom NC 1 speaks truth! And Tom your strategies are valid and effective, in my experience of employing them.

I can add five points as well.

According to Battery University and other reliable sources, the combination of high heat and full charge is most harmful. This implies that starting charge in the middle of the night is better than starting charge as soon as one gets home. (Here I am assuming a typical commuting to work driving pattern.) At 3 AM or so, the HVB has cooled somewhat and also by the time it hits 100% SOC later in the morning, the internal fan and cooler ambient temps will have brought the temp down even more in most circumstances.

Heavy acceleration raises HVB temperature a LOT. When it’s really hot out, I accelerate with like 1.5 bars as much as possible.

Regen also raises HVB temp a lot. When I see my HVB temp hit 105F, I brake harder so that the mechanical brake pads get used more, and less regen occurs. Once, in a moment of pique, I braked in N a few times to avoid any regen at all! But I did manage to keep it at 105F....

Windows wide open or, better yet, using A/C, if it’s just me in the car, I have both back seats folded down and the cargo cover open in hot weather. Just like I’m carrying cargo in the back, even when there is none. And never block those HVB vents on the left and right in the back!! These things all improve air circulation.

Finally, in three years of experimentation in all forms of ambient temperatures, in our garage and out, starting with both high and low HVB temps at the start of charge, I have determined this:
L2 charging leads to lower full-charge temperatures than does L1 charging.
Or, to put it another way, 110V charging with the car’s charging gear consistently leaves us with a higher HVB temperature at the end of the charge.

It’s not a big difference—usually 2 to 4 degrees F—but it is consistent.

It’s funny to be writing about hot batteries in January. I’ve been turning this around and charging on L1 sometimes just to keep the battery as warm as possible!

Rick

Edited by P=E/t, 21 January 2018 - 08:41 AM.

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#54 OFFLINE   spirilis

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 10:41 AM

Thanks for that Rick! Fascinating stuff.

#55 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 12:23 PM

I happen to have a JuiceBox level 2 charger 

 

 

Have you tried another level II charger?



#56 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 09:49 AM

Yeah, your capacity is low, but I'd also think your charger is having an issue...  I'm not aware of any way that your charger would be charging at 120V if it's being supplied with 240V... Are you sure it didn't just drop the charging rate to 1.7KW but is still running at 240V?



#57 OFFLINE   Stevenwalt@yahoo.com

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 11:35 AM

Thanks for all the responses. It doesn't seem to matter on the temp. ever since i got it back last week it's charging at the correct rate. 3.1 Kwh 15 Amps @ 208V. My juicebox will supply up to 15 Kwh at 60 amps. @ 240V. My understanding it will only "give" the power that's "called" for by the vehicle's on-board 3.1 Kwh charger. Good idea to try and get the codes from the dealer. Again, if anyone has a level II charger and is having challenges with charging and capacity, I'd suggest trying to get some kind of meter to measure what rate is actually happening, as you may be at a lower rate and causing inefficiencies and possible further heat damage. I will keep you posted.    



#58 OFFLINE   spirilis

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 11:40 AM

Basically the EV charger (EVSE, i.e. the JuiceBox in this scenario) tells the car how much is available, and it's the car's responsibility to take what it wants.  Theoretically the EVSE might not even know if the car starts drawing more than it should, unless the EVSE has current measurement circuitry built-in and logic to disconnect the power if the car gets too naughty.


Edited by spirilis, 22 January 2018 - 11:41 AM.


#59 OFFLINE   Stevenwalt@yahoo.com

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 02:47 PM

Dealer said had codes for the BECM POD80 and  the SOBDM POD80 & POD57.  They further said, once cleared they did not return after 2-3 days of charging/depleting. Thoughts? Thanks! 



#60 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 12:43 PM

Quick question -- Assuming outside weather temperature is good and stable (e.g. 50-65 degrees) and there is no cost benefit to charging at night, how important is it to let the car cool after driving before charging?  For example, say my normal charging period is 9pm-3am..and for whatever reason, I had to drive for an hour at 10pm....safe to charge when I get back home or should I be giving the car a 30 minute cooldown before connecting the charger?

 

Unfortunately, there have been a few situations recently where I immediately connected the charger after driving ...but only in relatively cool weather.  I'm just wondering if I should have ensured a minimum wait time after driving....










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