109 replies to this topic

[David Burnett]

I would like to create a low battery capacity thread to see how low batteries have gone over time, and hopefully get an idea of how low they can/will go in the future.  Please post the year of your car, where you mostly drive (climate matters), how many miles you have, and the total KWH used when driving and using a full charge on the battery as shown in myfordmobile or via the dash after your trip.

 

I'll start

 

Fusion Energi 2013

32,650 miles

Florida

4.1Kwh per myfordmobile trip today.

Edited by David Burnett, 08 October 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[rbort]

My bad, didn't read the heading clearly, post deleted then!

 

-=>Raja.

Edited by rbort, 27 September 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[dontfret]

Cmax Energi 2013

32,000 miles

San Diego CA

~ 3.9 Kwh per myfordmobile or trip meter in dashboard

Edited by dontfret, 27 September 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[bsheaffer]

Cmax Energi 2013

48,900 miles

San Francisco, CA

4.0-4.1 Kwhr

 

(in Dec 2015 was 4.3 Kwhr @ 38,588)

 

Weekday commute is 54 miles round trip, mostly highway.

Morning: 27.7 miles, low traffic, ~20.1 miles EV

Afternoon: 27.3 miles, high traffic, ~23.4 miles EV

 

General Charge times from 0% to 100%:

220 @ 6am underground for 90 minutes (Charge Now)

110 @ 10pm driveway for 3hr 53min (delayed charge)

 

(Note: I've only added value charge times after figuring out the capacity loss - used to always Charge Now).

Edited by bsheaffer, 27 September 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[dtvconsult]

C-Max Energi 2013

47,917 miles

Minneapolis, MN

4.4 to 4.8 kWh

 

Weekday commute is 52 miles round trip, mostly highway

Morning: East bound, moderate traffic (end up 200 feet higher in elevation) 16 to 19 miles EV

Evening: West bound, moderate traffic (end up 200 feet lower in  elevation) 18 to 21 miles EV

 

General Charge times from 0% to 100%:

240V@16A EVSE Home  1 hour 52 minutes

120V@16A EVSE Work   4 hours 13 minutes

 

Note:  I bought a 16A Level 1 EVSE to use at work. The outlet in the parking lot is a dedicated 20 Amp, 120 Volt outlet and I wanted to minimize my charge time. It is faster than the 12A that came with the car.

Edited by dtvconsult, 14 February 2017 - 07:16 AM.

[RubyMax]

General Charge times from 0% to 100%:

240V@16A EVSE Home  1 hour 52 minutes

120V@16A EVSE Work   4 hours 13 minutes

Interesting, I was under the impression that the supplied Level 1 EVSE was limited to 12A .  A fully depleted battery charges at just about 7 hours for me at 120V.

[Tom_NC_1]

C-Max Energi 2013

44,500 miles

Raleigh NC

4.1 to 4.4 kWh

 

First three years 90% low speed roads.

Starting 2016, Several trips per week 57 miles round trip about 70% Highway.

 

General Charge times from 0% to 100%:

240V@16A EVSE Home  1 hour 45 minutes

 

Note that all the lost capacity occurred over the summer of 2015 when the HVB had overheated a number of times throughout the hot summer.

Better summertime temperature management in 2016 prevented any HVB overheating and no additional lost capacity occurred.

 

Edit: About 4.1 to 4.2 kWh is the point the primary HVB capacity is depleted and it drops to Hybrid. 

Edited by Tom_NC_1, 08 October 2016 - 04:41 AM.

[JonC]

Mod Note:  Please do not post results above 4.2kwh.  The purpose of this thread is to tally those at or below 4.2.  Thx.

Edited by fotomoto, 07 October 2016 - 09:34 AM.

[Smiling Jack]

Mod Note:  Please do not post results above 4.2kwh.  The purpose of this thread is to tally those at or below 4.2.  Thx.

 

You might get a lot more interesting data if you raise that threshhold to 4.4

 

You could always do a separate tally counting only 4.2 or less.

[rbort]

Trouble is, would be best if there was a list for all, so you can see what the range of the batteries is, from best to worst, and you could sort them by editing the list and putting yourself in the right spot.  At the end of the day, this thread may yield about a 1/2 dozen folks, but if it was everyone on the board then you could see the whole picture.

 

Just saying..but anyway, go with what you got now -- so far I see about 3 1/2 folks.

 

-=>Raja.

Edited by rbort, 07 October 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[David Burnett]

I changed the topic subject to 4.5 Kwh.  I'm wondering if 3.9 is the limit of degradation because at this point you would have theoretically 3.7kw (1.7 + 2) in "reserve" (or 49% of the battery). 

 

Ford should know the answer to this.  If this is true, then that means they knowingly sold cars with a battery that could severely degrade after only the first couple of years and then no more.  They would be "covered" because the battery would never lose more than 30% of capacity but you could get a big wallop essentially right after purchasing the car.  That is pretty shameful if you ask me.

Edited by David Burnett, 08 October 2016 - 03:50 PM.

[RubyMax]

I changed the topic subject to 4.5 Kwh.  

I just drove three trips, total of 4.4 kWh

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2016-10-10 at 8.00.42 PM.png   155.79KB   2 downloads

[dontfret]

I pursued this with Ford at teh dealership, demanding to know what they warrantied the battery capacity to be.  The dealership was authorized by Ford Hotline, conducted the battery tests, including determining the battery capacity at 100%, 50% and 20% charge levels.  Despite agreeing the battery was only delivering around 14 estimated miles, and only capable of storing 5.4 kwh (that includes the ~1.5kwh it reserves for hybrid mode, so my getting around 3.6kwh as EV driving makes sense), Ford Hotline concluded by telling the dealership to tell the customer (me) this is 'normal wear and tear battery loss of capacity.'  I pushed to get them to state what is ABNORMAL battery loss that would justify a warranty replacement.  They refused to answer.  I spent around 15 minutes on a taped phone call with Ford Customer Service which concluded with the agent also refusing to tell me the warranty level, instead telling me the battery is warranteed for miles and time, but the capacity level which warranteed is "proprietary and cannot be divulged to customers."  So in essence whatever your degraded capacity is, it will always be within warranty since they won't tell you what that level is.  I would expect if it at some time runs only as a hybrid with no significant plug in capacity (e.g., show estimated 5 EV miles at full charge, worst case scenario), that would still (in Ford's mind) qualify as being within warranty and not justify a replacement.  At that point, enjoy your Cmax Hybrid - oh wait, we bought Energis, didn't we ??? 

[fotomoto]

 instead telling me the battery is warranteed for miles and time, but the capacity level which warranteed is "proprietary and cannot be divulged to customers."  So in essence whatever your degraded capacity is, it will always be within warranty since they won't tell you what that level is.  

 

 

Unacceptable!  Unless this policy changes (it's written on paper not in stone), this will be my last Ford.  Full disclosure:  I did read the warranty info before buying but thought they would stand by their products better than this.

[timwil56]

...and this is why I got rid of mine while it still had an acceptable trade in value and before it would be virtually worthless.

[bro1999]

...and this is why I got rid of mine while it still had an acceptable trade in value and before it would be virtually worthless.

Or lease, like I did. Let the manufacturer take the devaluation hit.

Definitely sounds like legal action is the only way Ford will divulge the capacity warranty numbers.... which really is ridiculous.

Edited by bro1999, 20 October 2016 - 02:17 AM.

[dontfret]

That what happened to Nissan Leaf, in the lawsuit they had to declare a warranty value )in their case based on bars of estimated mileage at full charge), and replace batteries that didn't meet that standard within 7 years.  Some of us here have already registered with the law firm (Capstone) that was successful in that case to see if they would take on Ford in a similar suit.  Details from other thread below:

 

Feel free to contact the paralegal Karla at the law firm that may form a class action (Capstone, they got the Nissan Leaf owners settlement) .  They are still researching whether such a case is possible, would be nice for more from here to join in.  They cannot recruit clients or advertise, but you can call her 310-712-8142 to volunteer your information.  or email at karla.Rubalcava@capstonelawyers.com   All Energi owners, Cmax or Fusion should volunteer.

Edited by dontfret, 20 October 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[Gmdeacon]

2013 CMAX Energi

63,300 miles

San Diego, CA

~3.8 kWh Typical 100% electric use per MyFordMobile before gas motor kicks on

 

 

Attached Files

•  Trip Log.JPG   18.51KB   1 downloads

Edited by Gmdeacon, 23 October 2016 - 10:52 AM.

[bdginmo]

On thing that may be slightly confusing is how people are defining their capacity. Is it when the ICE kicks on or when the vehicle switches to hybrid mode. The later would be a better number to post because it can be more reliably compared with figures posted from other drivers. The time at which the ICE kicks on can be highly variable depending on driving style and conditions. For example, I get 5.4-5.5 kwh when my vehicle switches to hybrid mode. But, I've had the ICE kick on anywhere between 5.4-5.9 kwh.

[markii]

2013 CMax Energi

36000 miles  ( driven 2 1/2 years)

Raleigh NC

4.3 KWh today ( shutoff and gathered data when hybrid mode kicked in)

 

Quite disappointed.  Unfortunately other family members have been driving the car and I attributed the first drop in estimated miles  (from 20 to 17 or so) due to driving differences.  But another drop to 15 or so - and with me driving -  and I knew things weren't right - and finally started resarching things.  I imagine hot weather is not helping - and  I know EV has cut off many times - Will be following Tom_NC_1 summer time steps to hopefully extend the life as there seems to be little traction with getting battery replacements or an understanding of what level of loss is acceptable under the warranty.