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Suddenish drop in MPG


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11 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Bryan Davis

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 05:33 AM

So in the last 3000 miles or so I've noticed my MPG in my energi drop on the freeway from 38-39 to a pretty constant 33 mpg.  I did the usual ICE maintenance, air filter, new plugs, checked tire pressure, checked alignment clean MAF, oil change, etc.  The new plugs did make it pep up quite a bit which I though was odd since it only has 42k and a lot of that is EV.

I have noticed it does not stay in EV as much in EV later mode and I have about 4 less miles in EV only range than I have in the past.  I also noticed it is not keeping the EV range in EV later like it used to.  I'm going to run a vehicle health report later today but I was wondering if anyone else has run into these symptoms?  I wonder if it may be a bad cell in the EV battery or something.









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#2 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 05:48 AM

Where are you located?



#3 OFFLINE   Bryan Davis

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 03:22 PM

Florida.  But I made a trip to Ohio last month and avg 33 mpg.  I made the same trip last year an got 39 mpg.  Also the same trip to the theme parks that last summer pulled 40ish mpg is again right at 33 mpg. I thought about the heat dropping some range but then i would have expected the same drop annually since I've owned the vehicle.  Last year with the AC on full blast on a 95 degree day I could still manage 38-39 mpg freeway cruising. 

 

In EV mode I can usually get between 24-26 miles with ac off and 20-22 with it running (totally flat here EV loves it).  Now maybe 16-17 miles with AC on and never more than 20 with it off.  Even my wife noticed it.  She used to be able to borrow the car and go to work, run to the store, come home and still have a few miles in reserve.  Now if she goes to work  and straight back and the battery runs out on the return trip.



#4 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 14 September 2016 - 05:37 PM

OK, thought you might be far enough north to maybe getting into winter blend gas.

 

Too many variables on long trips to make an apples-apples comparo.  How many kWh are you getting out of a full charge now?



#5 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 10:59 AM

sounds like the HVB battery capacity is degrading.  Welcome to my world.  Now only get around 4 kwh out of a full charge (don't look at the estimated miles per charge or how many you get, that is driver/temperature/accessory dependant.  Need to look at what the plug in portion actually delivers.  Reset your trip counter right after charging to 100%, then look at it as your car goes from EV to hybrid mode - a healthy battery pack should read around 5.4 kwh in the bottom number.  Another item if you have a OBD2 reader and can look at the PID output is BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM for a fresh full charge, that is the total charge capacity of the entire HVB battery - was 7.6 kwh new, mine is now only 5.35.  It always will reserve around 1-1.4 kwh for the hybrid mode.



#6 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 03:45 PM

I'm not sure I see the connection between the HVB capacity and freeway mpg on trips.  I can easily get the 38-39 mpg that Bryan used to get without charging the battery at all.  The only time I've seen a number as low as 33 mpg was driving at 75+ mph into a strong headwind.

 

It's a bit off topic, but I don't think the Energy to Empty PID would ever show 7.6 kWh because the car is designed to protect the battery by not utilizing the full capacity. I would guess the highest number you'd see on a new battery would be no more than 7.2.  I do agree that maxing out at 5.35 is disappointing.



#7 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 04:31 PM

I'm not sure I see the connection between the HVB capacity and freeway mpg on trips.  I can easily get the 38-39 mpg that Bryan used to get without charging the battery at all.  The only time I've seen a number as low as 33 mpg was driving at 75+ mph into a strong headwind.

 

It's a bit off topic, but I don't think the Energy to Empty PID would ever show 7.6 kWh because the car is designed to protect the battery by not utilizing the full capacity. I would guess the highest number you'd see on a new battery would be no more than 7.2.  I do agree that maxing out at 5.35 is disappointing.

 

My thought was if he was utilizing the EV charge as part of the MPG until the charge ran out, less HV miles + more gas.  Not instantaneous MPG, but average over a tank or trip.

 

I agree the E2E would never be 7.6, that's theoretical max capacity as sold.  But it does not exclude the amount the car reserves.  I just checked E2E at 0% charge as shown on the touch screen, actual SOC=18.6% as shown on TorquePro to compare your formula - you're spot on. At that SOC TorqePro using your PID shpows 1.1 kWh and FORScan shows 1.146.  Thansk for adding another PID to the library :)  I'll add a picture.

Screenshot 2016 09 15 17 24 32

Edited by dontfret, 15 September 2016 - 04:38 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 05:28 PM

Glad to hear that it matches ForScan, that means the conversion process I found on one of the Toyota Forums appears to be good :-)

You can adjust the decimal places shown in the gauge by adjusting the gauge properties.  I show it to 2 decimal places. 

 

As an FYI, the reason the temps in F are always oddball numbers and they jump in big increments is because they are whole degrees C in the PID, if you display the temps in C, they are just whole numbers with no decimal places.



#9 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 15 September 2016 - 06:28 PM

Rich,

 

Why is the HVB temperature 100F?  The outside temp is 73 and the battery is so hot?  Did you let it bake in the sun all day, or did you drive it to empty at highway speeds and then bake it in the sun?  Just trying to understand what drove the temperature up for my own personal use so to speak.

 

-=>Raja.



#10 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 04:54 AM

Rich,

 

Why is the HVB temperature 100F?  The outside temp is 73 and the battery is so hot?  Did you let it bake in the sun all day, or did you drive it to empty at highway speeds and then bake it in the sun?  Just trying to understand what drove the temperature up for my own personal use so to speak.

 

-=>Raja.

 

Raja, It is not hard for the HVB to reach 100ºf when the outside temp is in the 70s. I have battled this issue quite a lot this summer. Just because the outside overnight low temperature might dip 70 does not mean the HVB gets that cool. After charging at 10PM it is not unusual for my

HVB to still be in the mid 80s the next morning. Take a drive, charge and take another drive and 100ºf for the HVB is very possible.

When the outside air hits the mid 90s and the AC keeping the cabin around 78 degrees I am luck if I dare charge once per day to make sure the HVB does not overheat. 

 

Tom



#11 OFFLINE   Mikekoz

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 07:47 AM

   Our Cmax starting getting reduced mileage after we had it about a year and a half. It will be three years old this coming May. Ford says the battery is OK, but it is apparently just simply not lasting as long per charge. After the first year and a half, it was averaging about 249 mpg. Now it is at 137 and drops every month.



#12 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 06:00 AM

   Our Cmax starting getting reduced mileage after we had it about a year and a half. It will be three years old this coming May. Ford says the battery is OK, but it is apparently just simply not lasting as long per charge. After the first year and a half, it was averaging about 249 mpg. Now it is at 137 and drops every month.

 

Average MPG does not provide enough information. charge up the HVB then reset the trip odometer and drive until the HVB is depleted. This should provide a reading on how much capacity is left in the pack. A good pack should have >5kWh capacity.  What I and others have seen is a loss in capacity. If the pack overheats it can result in reduce the capacity. Without external gauges the harder to tell if the pack has been overheating. If you ever have had the mode switch to EV later while there is still available capacity in the HVB it is an overheating condition. Charging more than once per day in hot weather is likely to contribute to HVB overheating.

 

The dealer is not likely admit that lost capacity is a problem since no trouble codes will be raised. They will say that some lost capacity over time is normal without ever specifying what the limits of normal are.

 

Tom










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