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Rapid battery discharge


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32 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:40 PM

Oh yeah, something to note that you cannot set go times unless you power up the car.  If you just turn the radio on with the car off and go to the leaf menu, you can see the battery charge level, change from charge now to value charge, but you can't set any go times unless you power up the car.  Go figure, that's why I had to do it that way and when done I powered it back off.  Also go times cannot be set while moving for the record.

 

-=>Raja.









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#22 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 02:49 PM

Or I guess I could set a go time from MFM - but apparently not this weekend (down for scheduled maintenance) and only as long as we still have 2G service.

 

This is a really good idea from Raja !  I must give it a try.

 

It has been extremely hot in Houston even at night, and I've been limiting charges to 30 to 60 minutes at a time.



#23 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 05:39 PM

Another thing you can do to control temps a bit when the car is charging is to remote start it a few times.  I think the default temp setting for remote start is 72.


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#24 OFFLINE   daudette

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 11:07 AM

Back to rapid battery discharge.... I may have found some useful evidence.   I drove the car on the 9th and pugged it in to charge when I returned home.  That evening it finished charging no doubt but it remained plugged in, and the next morning (the 10th) I unplugged it.  It sat for several hours and then I checked the battery voltage.  It was 12.8 volts.

 

The car sat all day and in the evening of the 10th it was 12.65 volts.    This morning (the 11th) it was still sitting there, unplugged and unused for over 24 hours now, and at 7:30 AM the voltage was 12.30 volts.   I went back out a while ago (11:30 AM) and checked it again.  The voltage had gone back up to 12.50 volts.

 

The only way I can see that the voltage could go up while the car sits, unplugged, after more than 24, is if the computer is detecting the battery voltage and at some point when it determines it is needed, it begins a charging routine taking power from the HVB to do it.   How else could what I described happen?  

 

And if I'm correct, then the problem of unexpected, inexplicable battery discharge must be due to a computer bug that occasionally fails to correctly identify the need to charge and then charge it.

 

By the way, during the entire time referenced here no car door was ever opened and no accessory was run.  IOW there was no drain nor input on the 12 volt battery that I had control of.  All voltage testing was done with a multimeter under the open hood.

 

Thoughts?


Edited by daudette, 11 September 2016 - 12:58 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 11:34 AM

What does voltage on a 12v battery have to do with the high voltage battery??

#26 OFFLINE   daudette

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 12:50 PM

Well, for one thing, when you plug into 120v to charge the HVB, it also charges the 12 volt battery at the same time.  And there is probably a computer routine to manage it.

 

There is a thread "Is it true that the HVB charges the 12 volt battery?" above that discusses it.


Edited by daudette, 11 September 2016 - 12:51 PM.


#27 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 03:50 PM

The car can occasionally use some power from the 12v battery to report to MFM queries, pump up the brake booster (usually then you handle the car, open door, etc).  Those things will bring the 12v battery voltage down, and then when they go dormant the 12v battery voltage can bounce back.

 

Incidentally, 12.8v is high, because the battery was recently fresh off charging.  You should see a voltage typically anywhere from 12.5v to 12.2v.  a 12v battery at 12.6v+ after sitting for a while off charge is considered 100% charged.  

 

I have checked my Cmax 12v battery voltage, as seen in the video in the other link you supplied being shown as low as 12.25v or there abouts, and other times I've checked it and it has shown 12.5v  All these numbers are considered OK and nothing to be concerned about.  If you want to find out the draw on the 12v battery you can run the positive line in series with a 10a voltmeter set on amps, then you should see the draw with you operate stuff, open the door, turn on lights etc, and also the parasitic draw from the car's computer and other modules.  There is always some draw on the battery hence why over time if the car is not used the 12v battery will die and get destroyed.  For long trips or time without need to use the car it would be best to disconnect the 12v battery hence it will hold its charge until you get back.  In that case I would charge the HVB to 50% before doing so to put the car in storage.  Anyway, off topic a bit but more details for you in case it helps you understand stuff better.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 11 September 2016 - 03:51 PM.


#28 OFFLINE   daudette

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 05:39 PM

Raja, what are "MFM queries"?   I'd like to know anything that could use 12 volt power when the car is parked, shut down, left fully charged, not touched by anyone except for checking the voltage under the hood with a multimeter when the hood remains open for the entire time period of 2 or 3 days in the garage.  No doors opening.  No lights on.  No accessories on or plugged in anywhere.  No use of power that a human can control.  Fob left in the house in a drawer so inadvertent touching of the door handle or anything else would have no effect.

 

You said the car could use some 12v power to "pump up the brake booster (usually then you handle the car, open door, etc"

 

If you meant "WHEN" you handle the car, open door, etc. then this does not apply to my situation.

 

So what are "MFM queries"?  I can't translate "MFM".

 

Thanks.



#29 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 06:36 PM

That is My Ford Mobile.  If you go there to check on your car it has to report charge level, location, etc.  I'm not sure what happens behind the scenes but when you log into MFM then it has to query the car to update the data on the application.

 

Maybe what you ought to do is put the amp meter in series with the battery.  I have not done that on my car so I don't know what is the normal draw on the battery though for sure there is something going to be there.  I have seen the voltage drop for a while on the battery while checking it under the hood and later go back up, all I can say is that the car is doing something I'm not sure what and eventually that something stops and the voltage comes back up.

 

Sometimes when I get home several minutes after even with the car not plugged in and the HVB almost dead I hear something running in the back, not sure what it is but after a while it shuts off.  

 

My point is that when you see the voltage drop on the battery, there is something running.  What is it I can't tell you for sure, but then you see the voltage go back up that something has stopped.  The car is not charging the 12v battery, you are just seeing a load come and go.  

 

-=>Raja.



#30 OFFLINE   daudette

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Posted 11 September 2016 - 07:34 PM

Oh, ok.  Well I have not set up MFM so I can't do anything with the car from my phone.  So that's not it.

 

I figured the voltage drops because something is running.  I know about the voltage fluctuation and that after a voltage draw, the voltage will come back up.  But I didn't think anything would be running to drop the voltage that much.  And then the return was so large a change that I figured the HVB was charging it.  I guess not.

 

I think what you are hearing in the back of the car may be the cooling fan for the HVB.  I often hear what you're referring to as well.  But after sitting for a full 24 hours unplugged and charged, nothing was running.  It's quiet in my garage and I always easily hear that sound you are referring to when it happens, but I don't think that's the draw in this case.

 

So the dead battery is still a mystery.



#31 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 05:58 AM

The sound I'm referring to is different from the fan while charging for me, its like a whirring sound and it comes on about 5 to 10 minutes after I arrive home from a long trip with a dead HVB even though I have not plugged the car in.  I'm not quite sure what it is.  I plug the car in for a bit like 45 minutes on 120v to bring the HVB of out the hybrid back to somewhere around 1 to 3% and then unplug it to rest for the night as I don't want its voltage to drop too deep into the hybrid section with whatever needs to whir after I get home.

 

I also notice when I charge it that the cooling fan is racing for the charger/hvb, a good indication that the HVB is hot from driving and that charging at the moment is not a good idea, hence why I just bring it up slightly and unplug it.  I much prefer to charge when the HVB fan is not running initially or running at a slow to medium pace but not racing.

 

Are you still having a problem with the 12v battery dying?  It could be your telematics board that communicates with MFM, some people commented about that being the issue as it keeps trying to communicate but it can't get through.

 

Just as a comparison for you I just went to the garage and popped the hood (the driver's window was down).  Somehow the car knew I did that and the brake booster pump went off.  Anyway I checked the 12v battery and its showing 12.44v.  I had charged the car yesterday afternoon at the EV car show in Walpole and driven it home, that was it.  The HVB is sitting around 17 miles range or 60% at the moment.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 12 September 2016 - 06:08 AM.


#32 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 06:40 AM

I wouldn't assume that just because you haven't set up MFM, that your car is not communicating with the Ford servers on a regular basis.  People who have monitored their car closely report spikes of up to 10A when the communication module comes to life to "phone home"



#33 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 07:02 AM

I just checked my 12v battery again, now its showing 12.64v.  The brake booster coming on when I popped the trunk drew it down, and now its bounced back up.

 

-=>Raja.










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