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Rapid battery discharge


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32 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Matthew Skib

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 02:56 PM

Hi there,

 

I recently purchased a used 2013 C-Max Energi with 34,000 miles on it from auction. The auction house stated the car was in top-notch condition, however I'm now having obvious issues with the battery and I'm beginning to regret purchasing the vehicle if I cant resolve it with either ford or the auction house.

 

When I first drove it the sync system showed it was around 23%, I charged it up fully to 100% last night for 6-hours on a 120v plug. This morning I had to drive somewhere. I started the car and the system showed 100% battery. Perfect.. however within 10 minutes of driving the battery percent had rapidly depleted from 100%, to just 7%.

 

Has anyone experienced a similar issue or know how I can resolve this?

 

I did have the air-con on quite high because its a hot day.

 

Also model is an energi which is supposed to be able switch between 3 modes, hybrid, electric and gas. However I'm unable to switch to the other modes from the hybrid mode.


Edited by Matthew Skib, 11 August 2016 - 03:03 PM.








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#2 OFFLINE   James2

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 08:07 PM

 good news is it has a 8 year, 100000 mile warranty.


Edited by James2, 11 August 2016 - 08:09 PM.


#3 OFFLINE   ShoulderThingThatGoesUP

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 01:58 AM

It's definitely not supposed to do that. There's no don't-use-the-battery-at-all mode - the modes available are EV Now, EV Auto, and EV Later. "Now" won't turn on the gas engine until you're out of battery, Auto will use battery until you're out unless you really stomp on the gas (pulling on to a freeway), Later will preserve whatever level you have in the battery - if you're doing a highway drive with city driving at the end this is a good idea. In every mode the car will use regenerative braking.

 

That said clearly something isn't working right with your car. How long did it take to charge to what it said was 100%?

 

Never mind, I read your posts in another section and yeah after driving 30 minutes on the highway with the AC on you're not going to have a ton of battery left.


Edited by ShoulderThingThatGoesUP, 12 August 2016 - 02:04 AM.


#4 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 03:46 AM

Reset the trip odometer at the start of a trip with a full HVB(100%). Drive in EV only or EV mode until the battery is depleted. Note the kWh used in the trip odometer to see how much capacity the battery has. about 5.5kWh is good for a new HVB. I would expect at least a little less capacity in a three year old battery. Only ten minutes of driving should not deplete the HVB even with AC on unless there are capacity problems with the HVB.

 

Driving at highway speeds will deplete the HVB much faster than slower driving on city streets. To take the best care of the HVB avoid the AUTO or EV Only modes when driving highway speeds.

 

Tom



#5 OFFLINE   James2

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 04:17 AM

How did you get the display to show percentage and not miles of range available for the battery?



#6 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:30 AM

Only ten minutes of driving should not deplete the HVB even with AC on unless there are capacity problems with the HVB.

 

 

Tom

Oh, if I'm in EV mode on my trip home from work and take the highway uphill I can easily use up more than 4KWH in 10 minutes...



#7 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:32 AM

 

 

Oh, if I'm in EV mode on my trip home from work and take the highway uphill I can easily use up more than 4KWH in 10 minutes...

 

And probably take some life out of the battery while you're at it...!

 

Let me say that one more time, never ever rapid discharge the battery...

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 12 August 2016 - 06:34 AM.


#8 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:34 AM

How did you get the display to show percentage and not miles of range available for the battery?

Press the leaf button at the middle/center of the Sync screen and I believe it's the Settings button on the left hand side of the screen.  The battery percentage will be near the top right of the screen.



#9 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:35 AM

And probably take some life out of the battery while you're at it...!

 

Let me say that one more time, never ever rapid discharge the battery...

 

-=>Raja.

 

Yeah, I don't normally but it would be nice if Ford included a list of normal driving which it will let you do that this car should not be used for.



#10 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 06:38 AM

Press the leaf button at the middle/center of the Sync screen and I believe it's the Settings button on the left hand side of the screen.  The battery percentage will be near the top right of the screen.

Also note, that the reading is not actual battery charge, but a 100% range of the EV portion of the battery.  IIRC 100% on there is somewhere around 95% of total battery capacity and 0% when you enter hybrid mode is somewhere around 20% of total battery capacity.



#11 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:03 AM

Oh, if I'm in EV mode on my trip home from work and take the highway uphill I can easily use up more than 4KWH in 10 minutes...

 

You are right of course as this will draw a high current for an extended period of time. It is a good way to overheat the HVB especially in warm weather. Raja is right that this type of usage could have a detrimental effect on the HVB. The method of HVB cooling is sketchy at best and was a major compromise implemented most likely to keep manufacturing costs down. Ford was not very accommodating for those of us who tend to make the HVB work hardest.  For whatever reason Ford does not seem very interested in selling this car.

 

Tom



#12 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 07:28 AM

Well, this is my take on it.  When Ford designed the car, they did not expect people to buy this car and use it exclusively in electric mode.  I think the intent was to use the EV mode in the city and use the ICE on the highway or on longer trips.  The 240v charging thing was actually more of a downfall for some people, because it gave the opportunity to recharge the car very quickly and people starting using it to go in and out all day on electric power.   Remember Gary drove almost exclusively on electric 100% EV all the time and went as far as going to the dealer to ask them to drain the "dealer" gas (free tank of gas he got with the new car) and put it in containers for him so he could burn that in his Ford Explorer, crazy right?  I'm sure he got laughed out of the dealer or laughed on after he walked out.  He lives in Florida and you don't see him on the forums any more...I'm sure his battery is worn out already and down on capacity with all the EV driving 100% of the time and his 500+ mpg average that he was so proud of.

 

Don't get me wrong I use EV when I can around town, but I also use the engine and travel quite the distances with the car.  I'm pretty much netting somewhere around 68mpg lifetime with the car.  Yesterday I drove to Boston, recharged there and drove back home.  It was hot so what I did during that recharge was to program the car to run the AC while it was charging to keep the temps down inside.  I got like 90% charge while I did my business and headed back home.  I got stuck in traffic with the AC running and I'm sure the HVB got hot as it can't not with all the heat outside in the mid 90's so when I got home I just let it rest overnight and this morning I charged it from 0 to 20% and that's it, I'm letting it rest some more I don't need to use the car much today anyways.  Later tonight I'll go to the store with the 20% and charge it there some after the sun has gone down.

 

Your best bet is to use the battery slowly and never draw more than 2 bars out of it.  I turn off cruise control up hills and limit the battery draw to 2 bars and let the car slow down as necessary instead of having CC draw like 2.3 bars to keep up the speed up a steeper hill.  Taking 1 hour to drain the battery for 30 miles is way better than doing it in 10 minutes at high speed.

 

Tom, after the summer is over it would be interesting to see where your HVB range ends up, I would expect some loss due to age and usage, but not as steep as last summer with the overheating and all the EV driving you were doing, I think you said you used to drive like 70 miles EV a day with recharging in between?

 

-=>Raja.



#13 OFFLINE   Matthew Skib

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:01 PM

Cheers all! Raja thanks for that write-up.. When you say 2 bars do you mean the blue-bar on the dash tachometer?

Edited by Matthew Skib, 12 August 2016 - 12:07 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:09 PM

Yes, it will be the blue bar in the Empower screen on the left.  Usually you have up to 4 bars in Auto Mode and 2 bars in EV later.  I never use EV mode as you don't get the 4 bars that I'm talking about in EV mode, just a blue line.

 

-=>Raja.



#15 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 12 August 2016 - 12:14 PM

...

 

Tom, after the summer is over it would be interesting to see where your HVB range ends up, I would expect some loss due to age and usage, but not as steep as last summer with the overheating and all the EV driving you were doing, I think you said you used to drive like 70 miles EV a day with recharging in between?

 

-=>Raja.

 

I am in the middle of our NC  hot summer with lots of humid days 90+ degrees. Today got to about 95ºf. To control the HVB temperature I am limiting to one charge per day. This normally consist of a partial charge before noon and a partial charge after 10PM using value charging. It is hard to keep below my goal of 102ºf. Today with the overnight low of about 80ºf the HVB was already 91ºf at the start of my morning drive. Could not hold to 102ºf today and it got to 104ºf. So most of todays driving is EV later. I will not have to charge it much tonight since the the HVB will remain nearly full.

I have also driven a lot this summer. Close to 1500 miles per month. Due to a change in my driving patterns much of the driving is on the highway where EV later is the rule. I have gone from gassing up once every two to three months to once every three weeks or less.

So after all the local driving and a 2k mile trip to NH and back I did perform one test of the HVB capacity. I am still getting about 4.5kWh after using both the main pack and Hybrid reserve as far as I can reasonably go. This is promising. I still have at least another month of hot weather but the temperature management does seem to be protecting the HVB capacity. Wish I had started this temperature management plan a year sooner. I will provide more more details when summer ends.

 

By the way in the NH vacation even though the days were getting up in the high 80s overnight the HVB would cool down to the unheard of temperature near 70ºf. Makes me long for winter in NC. 

 

A cool HVB is a happy HVB!

 

Tom


Edited by Tom_NC_1, 12 August 2016 - 12:14 PM.


#16 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 06:48 AM

Well, this is my take on it.  When Ford designed the car, they did not expect people to buy this car and use it exclusively in electric mode.  I think the intent was to use the EV mode in the city and use the ICE on the highway or on longer trips.  The 240v charging thing was actually more of a downfall for some people, because it gave the opportunity to recharge the car very quickly and people starting using it to go in and out all day on electric power.   Remember Gary drove almost exclusively on electric 100% EV all the time and went as far as going to the dealer to ask them to drain the "dealer" gas (free tank of gas he got with the new car) and put it in containers for him so he could burn that in his Ford Explorer, crazy right?  I'm sure he got laughed out of the dealer or laughed on after he walked out.  He lives in Florida and you don't see him on the forums any more...I'm sure his battery is worn out already and down on capacity with all the EV driving 100% of the time and his 500+ mpg average that he was so proud of.

 

Don't get me wrong I use EV when I can around town, but I also use the engine and travel quite the distances with the car.  I'm pretty much netting somewhere around 68mpg lifetime with the car.  Yesterday I drove to Boston, recharged there and drove back home.  It was hot so what I did during that recharge was to program the car to run the AC while it was charging to keep the temps down inside.  I got like 90% charge while I did my business and headed back home.  I got stuck in traffic with the AC running and I'm sure the HVB got hot as it can't not with all the heat outside in the mid 90's so when I got home I just let it rest overnight and this morning I charged it from 0 to 20% and that's it, I'm letting it rest some more I don't need to use the car much today anyways.  Later tonight I'll go to the store with the 20% and charge it there some after the sun has gone down.

 

Your best bet is to use the battery slowly and never draw more than 2 bars out of it.  I turn off cruise control up hills and limit the battery draw to 2 bars and let the car slow down as necessary instead of having CC draw like 2.3 bars to keep up the speed up a steeper hill.  Taking 1 hour to drain the battery for 30 miles is way better than doing it in 10 minutes at high speed.

 

Tom, after the summer is over it would be interesting to see where your HVB range ends up, I would expect some loss due to age and usage, but not as steep as last summer with the overheating and all the EV driving you were doing, I think you said you used to drive like 70 miles EV a day with recharging in between?

 

-=>Raja.

 

Raja,

 

When you say that you "program the car to run the AC while it was charging,"  what exactly did you do to do that?

 

Thanks in advance for explaining.

 

Jack



#17 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 07:20 AM

Hi Jack:

 

Its easy.  I parked at 12:55 and plugged the car in.  The sun was out and its hot outside.  I powered the car up and set go times for 1:30pm at 65F and 2:20pm at 65F.  This way the car doesn't have enough time to get hot.  Within 15 minute or so the car will kick on the AC, stay running past 1:30 by a few minutes, and kick on again later and stay running some more.

 

By the time I got back to the car the HVB wan't full (88%), due to taking some power to run the AC, but at least the car's interior was not blazing hot.

 

Its an idea if you have to park out in the open with no shade and charge.  Also slowing down the charge with the AC is a good thing, because you won't dwell along at 100% charge in the heat.  The AC doesn't put a load on the battery since it runs from the outlet on 240v, it will just reduce the charge rate for the battery.  Maybe just a slight load when it first turns on if the car is hot but will be gone in short order.

 

-=>Raja.



#18 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 12:27 PM

Hi Jack:

 

Its easy.  I parked at 12:55 and plugged the car in.  The sun was out and its hot outside.  I powered the car up and set go times for 1:30pm at 65F and 2:20pm at 65F.  This way the car doesn't have enough time to get hot.  Within 15 minute or so the car will kick on the AC, stay running past 1:30 by a few minutes, and kick on again later and stay running some more.

 

By the time I got back to the car the HVB wan't full (88%), due to taking some power to run the AC, but at least the car's interior was not blazing hot.

 

Its an idea if you have to park out in the open with no shade and charge.  Also slowing down the charge with the AC is a good thing, because you won't dwell along at 100% charge in the heat.  The AC doesn't put a load on the battery since it runs from the outlet on 240v, it will just reduce the charge rate for the battery.  Maybe just a slight load when it first turns on if the car is hot but will be gone in short order.

 

-=>Raja.

 

 

Raja,

 

Thanks.

Do you need to l;eave the car in Ready condition, and doesn't that leave it vulnerable to theft?



#19 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:14 PM

No Jack, its the GO time function, you just lock the car and walk away.  

 

The other option you're thinking of is powering up the car and turning on the AC.  In that case you need to leave the doors unlocked as when I tried to lock the doors from the outside the car just shut off.    This option is better suited if you're sitting in the car waiting for someone or working from your "remote office".  It will charge slower though due to the car being powered on (when compared to GO times which is still slower than nothing).

 

-=>Raja.



#20 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 13 August 2016 - 01:35 PM

No Jack, its the GO time function, you just lock the car and walk away.  

 

The other option you're thinking of is powering up the car and turning on the AC.  In that case you need to leave the doors unlocked as when I tried to lock the doors from the outside the car just shut off.    This option is better suited if you're sitting in the car waiting for someone or working from your "remote office".  It will charge slower though due to the car being powered on (when compared to GO times which is still slower than nothing).

 

-=>Raja.

 

Got it. What set me off was that you said youmpowered up the car and set go times.  You did not mention that you then  turned the car off again.

 

Thanks for explaining further.










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