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Going long range


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30 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 08:51 PM

Here is another video for you showing the delights of this car:

 

 

I topped the car off in Patterson, NJ where gas was cheap at $1.89/gallon credit ($1.79 cash) and from there I was able to drive to Lehighton, PA and then onwards up to Hazelton for breakfast the next day.  Then from there I drove 9% battery to get on the highway at 88% (I-80), set the cruise to 65/66 mph and stayed in the car in motion all the way to Lima, OH.  

 

Without using the HVB at all, the car's ICE net 43.7mpg all the way through  PA and to Akron, OH.  There I used some battery due to traffic, 6% to be exact down to 82%, and from there I went all the way until about 25 miles out of Lima at 44.2mpg before I burned the rest of the battery in AUTO mode as I was stopping for dinner there and figured I could charge some while I ate.

 

I tried to go to a Ford dealer there but their HV charger even though I powered it on with the breaker would not start charging the car.  I messed with it for 15 minutes, asked them for help, and they couldn't figure it out either they said it works all the time, well not for my car.  So I left and drove to Applebees where I found an outlet outside (tried Texas Roadhouse first but no outlets found) and plugged in while I ate and checked my emails.  I was able to add 40% to the battery using just the 120v stock charger.

 

From there I drove the country roads at 55 to 60mph (65 was too fast at night afraid of deer or animals in the road) and then finally used the last 40% of battery to get to my hotel in Muncie.  

 

Ended up burning 18.25 gallons, less than last year by over a gallon I did better this year by making sure the car was not using HVB at much as possible on the highway (to prevent recharging).  So even without the HVB for over 400 mile leg I still net 43.7mpg in EV later.  Someone please tell me again how/when/why are people complaining that this car doesn't net the original 43mpg estimate that Ford posted??

 

Attached are pictures of my trip between gas stations, I love the long range as it allowed me to skip over all the expensive gas stations in between and hit only the lowest price ones between my house and Muncie.  When I stopped in Lima to get gas, I still had 44 miles range of gas left!  A full tank showed a total of 614 miles range on gas only.  I'm also posting a picture of the trip meter where you can see I only used about 2.5 charges for the entire trip and net 48.6mpg.  I charged at home overnight before departure, in Lehighton overnight plus 19% earlier in the evening to go to get something to eat and back (didn't use it all), and at Applebees another 40%.

 

Hope you enjoy your Cmax as much as I do mine!  I've shut down the ICE last night around 10:45pm and finished my trip on the remainder of the HVB arriving at the hotel on the hybrid battery (my estimate of when to shut down the engine was right on) and now I won't have to run it at all until I leave next weekend, driving about 20 miles a day on average on the HVB.  I setup a value charge profile here at the hotel (from last year) and I just plug it in when I get back and it kicks of charging at 3am so its ready by 9am for me.

 

-=>Raja.

Attached Files


Edited by rbort, 30 July 2016 - 08:59 PM.

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#2 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:49 AM

 set the cruise to 65/66 mph 

 

 I still net 43.7mpg in EV later.  Someone please tell me again how/when/why are people complaining that this car doesn't net the original 43mpg estimate that Ford posted??

 

I don't think most folks drive these speeds on the highways especially in other parts of the country.  Here in Texas, 75-85mph are the PSL on most highways and interstates.  Even FM's (farm to market rural two lane roads), are 70mph.  

 

Most of the complainers were talking about the original 47/47/47 rating of the hybrid.  The energi, released later and retested, has always been lower.  



#3 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 10:30 AM

I don't think most folks drive these speeds on the highways especially in other parts of the country.  Here in Texas, 75-85mph are the PSL on most highways and interstates.  Even FM's (farm to market rural two lane roads), are 70mph.  

 

Most of the complainers were talking about the original 47/47/47 rating of the hybrid.  The energi, released later and retested, has always been lower.  

Where is it posted 85mph in Texas? I-10/I-20 are 80mph , usually I go 65-70mph unless I'm drafting. Doesn't cause any problems out in the middle of nowhere. LOL  There is usually a fair amount of Semi traffic and going 80mph you don't have to get very close at all to draft. Heading East there is usually a 20-30mph tail wind plus drating I can get 50mpg for about 100 miles going 80 mph, then winds shift to north/south mpg's go down. :(  I still average 47+mpg going across country without A/C. :smile2:

 

Paul 



#4 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 12:15 PM

Where is it posted 85mph in Texas? 

 

http://jalopnik.com/...isnt-a-big-deal     :drop:

 

And when you add in that many folks believe in the "+5mph won't get you pulled over" while others follow the "+9 over isn't a big ticket if you are pulled over" mantra and you've got real world 80+mph traffic in a majority of the state.  I stick to the PSL, the right lane, and get mid to upper 30's with a/c and cruise.  I don't do a lot of highway driving and only used two tanks of gas last year.  This year is looking more like three for sure.   :2thumbs:


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#5 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 31 July 2016 - 07:21 PM

Great, so according to your link in Texas they call you an asshole if you drive the speed limit?  Oh well, sorry if I go to Texas doesn't mean I'm going to drive as fast as they want, they can drive around me in the left lane.

 

And no they were complaining about the Energi too, that's why Ford lowered it to 38mpg rating which is what you get at 75mph.

 

-=>Raja.


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#6 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:29 AM

Dunno, I finally had the opportunity to do some straight highway driving for around 50 miles each way.  Given, there are some rolling hills through there, but with the trip meter reset for just the cruising on the highway with eco cruise at 69mph I got right around 35mpg each way.  

 

Not sure which direction had more ascent, but the way out it was about 62F and I had all the windows open.  Strictly EV later at 95%.  It got about 34mpg.

 

The return trip it was about 89F, Climate control set to 69F.  I played with EV Later to raise the set point as it allowed, then used up maybe 10% of the battery on downhill sections.  Got about 36.5MPG.

 

So, either my car has a bit more drag somewhere, or the C-Max is just VERY picky about the actual conditions(like it doesn't like hills whatsoever) to get the sort of mileage you're talking about.

 

 

Overall for my purposes the Energi is coming out at around 62MPGE with roughly maybe 75% of my driving on EV.  Though I do have to taper the power output on some of the hills with the C-Max to avoid the ICE kicking in.



#7 OFFLINE   stolenmoment

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 11:39 AM

ISTR (from >30 years ago) that somebody did the tests and discovered that open windows present more load (aerodynamic drag) than the air conditioner (drag on the motor).

 

Our MUCH newer air conditioning really should use less power than those old systems.

 

Whoops!  I see that MythBusters also did the test http://www.discovery...s-open-windows/, and open windows won.  Now, that was at 45mph, with a couple of SUVs, and aero drag goes up sharply with speed.

 

Here's another one: https://blog.gasbudd...457041-563.aspx which has references that show that a higher speeds, it's better to roll up the windows, especially with a more aerodynamic vehicle.

 

Ahh, here http://www.sae.org/e...s/2004-hill.pdf is the original SAE report.  Good bedtime reading!



#8 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 12:23 PM

Yup, 45mph has always been about the point where I've heard it's more efficient to use the air conditioner.

 

Realistically, I've tried going at a constant speed with windows down and rolling them up and watching the mpg gauge.  Nothing noticeable.  So i'm guessing there might be a few mpg difference there, but not a lot.



#9 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 04:10 PM

My experience has been with the front windows down about 1/3 and back closed it doesn't effect MPG's noticeably and sometimes I only open passenger side window.  Using A/C on the FWY you loss 2-4mpg. :( 

 

Paul 



#10 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 06:00 AM

Levi, didn't you say that your car had new tires put on it right before you bought it, and that they were not LRR tires? This could explain why your mpg is as low as it is. Under the conditions you describe, I would have expected better mileage if you were running the Michelin Energy A/S tires.

 

I have the stock tires inflated to about 45 psi.  I made a very flat 75 mile trip twice, late last week. 

  • On the way there, I drove about 72-73 mph in EV Later and it was cool enough outside that I was able leave the AC off. According to the car, I got about 42 mpg on that leg.  Elevation gain in that direction is 60' over the 75 miles, and the tallest hills were the overpasses.
  • On the way back, it was a bit warmer, so I ran the AC, but drove at about 68-69 mph.  I was playing with recharging the battery while driving for about 1/3 of the trip, bringing the battery from 0% to 20%.  While doing that, I was getting about 38 mpg, once I stopped messing with charging the battery, it jumped up to about 41-42 mpg with the average for that leg being a bit over 40 mpg.

So from what I can tell, at highway speeds, the effect of using the AC is roughly the same as the effect of driving 3-4 mph faster.

 

Driving on the highway in Manitoba, the speed limit is generally 100 kph (62 mph). At that speed, with AC on, I get 5-5.5 l/100km, depending on terrain, elevation gain etc.which converts to 43-47 mpg



#11 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 06:07 AM

Levi, didn't you say that your car had new tires put on it right before you bought it, and that they were not LRR tires? This could explain why your mpg is as low as it is. Under the conditions you describe, I would have expected better mileage if you were running the Michelin Energy A/S tires.

 

I have the stock tires inflated to about 45 psi.  I made a very flat 75 mile trip twice, late last week. 

  • On the way there, I drove about 72-73 mph in EV Later and it was cool enough outside that I was able leave the AC off. According to the car, I got about 42 mpg on that leg.  Elevation gain in that direction is 60' over the 75 miles, and the tallest hills were the overpasses.
  • On the way back, it was a bit warmer, so I ran the AC, but drove at about 68-69 mph.  I was playing with recharging the battery while driving for about 1/3 of the trip, bringing the battery from 0% to 20%.  While doing that, I was getting about 38 mpg, once I stopped messing with charging the battery, it jumped up to about 41-42 mpg with the average for that leg being a bit over 40 mpg.

So from what I can tell, at highway speeds, the effect of using the AC is roughly the same as the effect of driving 3-4 mph faster.

 

Driving on the highway in Manitoba, the speed limit is generally 100 kph (62 mph). At that speed, with AC on, I get 5-5.5 l/100km, depending on terrain, elevation gain etc.which converts to 43-47 mpg

 

Well, the sales guy told me before I had seen the car that the tires looked brand new.  In reality they're maybe half worn down.  But they are LRR.  Michelin Primacy MXM4.  Looks like about the most expensive tires you can put on the car:

https://www.tirerack...gi&autoModClar=

 

My tires are up to 51psi.

 

I can't get an exact reading for the highway itself, but it looks like there's about 2000' of total ascent in either direction.



#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 12:32 PM

Well, the sales guy told me before I had seen the car that the tires looked brand new.  In reality they're maybe half worn down.  But they are LRR.  Michelin Primacy MXM4.  Looks like about the most expensive tires you can put on the car:

https://www.tirerack...gi&autoModClar=

 

My tires are up to 51psi.

 

I can't get an exact reading for the highway itself, but it looks like there's about 2000' of total ascent in either direction.

Those aren't the best for MPG's :(

 

Paul



#13 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 12:43 PM

Those aren't the best for MPG's :(

 

Paul

What, the tires or the 2000'?

 

Not sure why the tires would be much different than other LRR tires.

 

I agree, elevation doesn't help any, but I'm still surprised the C-Max is so sensitive to elevation.  These are just normal around here.  The Prius nor any other car I've had was ever this sensitive.  Sure, they all get noticeably less mpg on my 13 mile trip each way to/from work with a 1000' of elevation and the warmup period, etc.  But get them out on the highway like this and they're all back up to normal mpg.  Heck, I recall a trip or two over to Boston where I was doing 85mph fairly frequently to keep up with traffic and the mileage didn't take any huge dips.

 

Maybe it's just the aerodynamics or something...  It definitely has a larger flat portion of the backside that sucks dirt like no one's business.  I don't recall any other vehicles where I've actually used the rear wiper without washer fluid and had it just clear piles of dirt off.  Or get to the grocery store, and have to stand back when the hatch opens because the wind would literally blow dirt out from around the hatch and on to me.



#14 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:32 AM

Not all tires labeled as LRR deliver the same efficiency.  The stock Michelin Energy Saver AS and the Bridgestone Ecopias (which I believe are stock on most Prius and Leafs) seem to be the only 2 widely available tires that deliver top-tier fuel mileage.  There are a lot more threads on the BEV forums about the range hit associated with different brands of tires.  From what I remember, the MXM4 was about a 10% reduction of range in a Leaf or Focus Electric, but these estimates tend to be a bit exaggerated since brand new tires are never as efficient as the worn out tires they are replacing. 


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#15 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 05:40 AM

Woah, I know different tires/LRR aren't the same, but 10% is a HUGE hit...  I'd expect something more along the lines of 1 or 2%...

 

But it does become more plausible if you're talking anecdotal evidence of someone replacing worn out tires with new ones...  Besides the new tires having the added weight of the full tread, the numbers on the odo are going to be off a bit even if there isn't actually a mileage hit because the old tires will have had less diameter compared to the new ones(new tires are going to go farther per revolution), so the odo/speedo are going to read differently...



#16 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 06:48 AM

I was talking about the tires, my daughter has Prius, she went to Cooper LRR tires(cheaper) and lost 4-5mpg.  I have tied with her now with my Fuelly avg.(47.2mpg) :smile2:

 

Paul



#17 ONLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:47 AM

I was talking about the tires, my daughter has Prius, she went to Cooper LRR tires(cheaper) and lost 4-5mpg.  I have tied with her now with my Fuelly avg.(47.2mpg) :smile2:

 

Paul

 

Sounds like you get what you pay for.


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#18 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 07:51 AM

Sounds like you get what you pay for.

Except it was just stated that going for more expensive tires also dropped the mileage...

 

Still hard to tell actual facts without comparing multiple sets of brand new tires on the same car.  It's always going to at least look worse going from old to new tires even if it might not actually be...



#19 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 11:58 AM

I'm on my Third set of Michelin's Energy Savers and I use GPS mileage, not odometer.  When new the tires are off by 2.2%, by the end(64K mi.) 1.6 % on the difference in miles. That's worth +1mpg more. Worn out tires get a little better gas mileage, maybe 1 MPG or less. :smile2:  Prius Forum also said Michelin's Energy Savers are the best.

 

Paul



#20 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 02:01 PM

Well I just got back from Indiana last night.  Was a good trip, the car performed flawlessly throughout.  I drove 100% electric while there from Friday night until Monday the week after, about a total just under 200 miles.  I chose to charge the car once a night at the hotel starting at 3am.  During the day I tried to park it in the shade whenever possible, and I'd say 6 out of the 9 days it was in the shade, the other 3 in the sun with the windows down.  It was very hot there, in the low 90's on average.

 

On the way home I went back through Lehighton in PA and spent the night there, then stopped in Danbury CT at my favorite pitt stop where I can get some good food at Outback and charge my car at the same time.  This time around I decided to go through the country way from Union, CT all the way to Franklin, MA.  Last time I drove further on 84 to the mass pike and then got off the pike and took 140 back down to Franklin to use up the battery.  Last night worked much better as it turns out most of that way seems to be more downhill than up, and I was able to go quite some distance on the battery, somewhere between 36 and 40 miles due to the hills.  I used the engine to climb the steeper or longer ones and left the battery for the flats and downhills or just a short hill.  Not going the mass pike also meant I didn't have to pay a toll, and yes I could have gone the fastest way home all highway and saved maybe 25 minutes, but there wouldn't have been any good place to use the 100% charge I got at Outback while eating there.  And to be honest I really enjoyed navigating all the windy hilly roads, deciding when you use the battery, L gear and when to have an ICE burn.  Time didn't matter, with this car its like you're playing a game, you don't care for the ride to end.

 

Going that way I net 63mpg with 1 charge, and I timed the engine off (last burn stop using the engine now) perfectly 25 miles back and arrived home with 75% hybrid battery left.  Furthermore, I think I broke my record as far as fuel burn is concerned going to Indiana and back, with a total of 35.86 gallons I think last year it was at least 3 gallons more.  I would have had a post here with pictures I'm sure, but I keep having to delete older post attachments to make room for new ones.

 

The night before, notice I net 51mpg with no battery in the last leg of the trip home to Larry's house.  This is due to descending down from Hazelton back to Lehighton and there is a steep section of the road with truck runaway ramps that you can bring your dead hybrid battery back to 12% HVB with several miles to drive.  Its practically almost a free ride from the top of that hill all the way to Larry's house, I think I had to do only 1 engine burn coming out of Jim Thorpe I ran out of the HVB before the end of that hill but then it was downhill again and enough for me to squeeze it to Larry's home without the ICE.

 

Fun times with my Maxie!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 10 August 2016 - 02:07 PM.

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