Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

HVB cooling


  • Please log in to reply
40 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   NedB

NedB

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Cmax, 2005 FEH & 2007 Prius

Posted 21 July 2016 - 11:59 AM

I just thought I'd put this out there as an idea (I still haven't pulled the trigger on my own CMax yet... Have some stuff to pay off first) I'm brainstorming here, writing as I go, bear with me:

Since battery temperature is so important, and there is existing ductwork to pull cabin air across the battery, why not add more capacity to that system? How about adding an auxiliary fan to push more air through the hvb? Find a pc cooling fan, and add some additional ductwork to the hvb? More airflow ought to keep the battery cooler... (Obviously there's some trial & error fitment/placement solutions to work out)
You could add a small battery pack to the system, and perhaps a solar trickle charger to make it independent from the vehicle. Add a thermostat so that it wouldn't pump hot air across the battery (we don't want to add heat after all), I bet it could lower battery temps a few degrees especially if it was pulling cooler air through while the car was charging.

Ok have at it; rip tear shred the idea apart.... Just thought this up, haven't tried it, but maybe it would work, and maybe someone might run with the idea. - Ned
  • bschwerdt likes this







Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

bschwerdt

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 406 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse, NY
  • My C-MAX:2015
  • Color:Magnetic
  • Current Vehicle:2015 CMax Energi, 302A / 2012 Nissan Leaf SV

Posted 21 July 2016 - 12:25 PM

I've occasionally thought about enhancing the battery cooling system.  Although one of my objectives might be to reclaim space lost to the duct work itself.  Perhaps a more space-efficient liquid cooling system.  The trade-off might be cost and/or energy consumption.  For example, I know many gamers over-clock their PCs and then add a water cooling system.

 

Do you have an engineering and/or tinkering background?  I see that you are local.  I have ideas but am not particularly handy.  I'd be willing to lend a hand if you do ever take the plunge.



#3 OFFLINE   NedB

NedB

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Cmax, 2005 FEH & 2007 Prius

Posted 21 July 2016 - 02:14 PM

I've occasionally thought about enhancing the battery cooling system. Although one of my objectives might be to reclaim space lost to the duct work itself. Perhaps a more space-efficient liquid cooling system. The trade-off might be cost and/or energy consumption. For example, I know many gamers over-clock their PCs and then add a water cooling system.

Do you have an engineering and/or tinkering background? I see that you are local. I have ideas but am not particularly handy. I'd be willing to lend a hand if you do ever take the plunge.


I'm mostly a woodworker/Maker but I think I could cobble together something. I'd be glad to work on something together!

I haven't spent enough time in a CMax so I don't know the space lost to the cooling ducts. Given that we already lose space to the HVB, personally I don't mind giving up just a bit more to increase cooling & extend the life of the HVB.

#4 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

Tom_NC_1

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 995 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNC
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi 302a

Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:02 PM

I've occasionally thought about enhancing the battery cooling system.  Although one of my objectives might be to reclaim space lost to the duct work itself.  Perhaps a more space-efficient liquid cooling system.  The trade-off might be cost and/or energy consumption.  For example, I know many gamers over-clock their PCs and then add a water cooling system.

 

Do you have an engineering and/or tinkering background?  I see that you are local.  I have ideas but am not particularly handy.  I'd be willing to lend a hand if you do ever take the plunge.

 

Not a bad idea but a quick proof of concept experiment should be done before getting too carried away. I have always wanted to take a flexible hose from the AC vents under the front seats and pipe directly to the HVB intake vents to see if that would make a difference. The only reason I gave not tried this is that I carry grandkids in car seats back there most every day and they would not appreciate anything in their way.

 

Also note that the HVB fans do not turn on until the cabin temperature is >8 degrees lower that the temperature of the HVB.  I have also on an occasion seen the the HVB fans shut off even when the temperature spread is far greater than 8 degrees. This has happened a couple of times when I have stopped in a carpool lane at the preschool for several minutes. Even turning the car off and on will not get that fan going again. If the car sits off for a half hour or so the HVB fan will run normally again. There are a lot of mysteries to the logic of running the HVB cooling fans.

 

 

Tom



#5 OFFLINE   NedB

NedB

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Cmax, 2005 FEH & 2007 Prius

Posted 21 July 2016 - 03:53 PM

Tom , good point. In my case the car will be the typical commuter vehicle, i.e. Just me 95% of the time. A Mod of that sort wouldn't be a big deal.

I'm a trucking dispatcher for the nations largest carrier. One of our major 'concerns is DCI or Driver Controlled Idling. One of the guys in the office built a Truck Cooler... Take a cooler, cut a pair of holes in it, one for a fan to push air in, another for an elbow to let it out. Put a bag of ice in the chest, and you've got cooled air for just a couple of bucks per night, vs burning a gallon of fuel to run the AC.

I bet we could build a pvc box to fit behind the battery and run a duct for the air along the edge of the cargo compartment and down to the vents. Put a couple of half gallon jug 'cold dogs' (water in a milk jug frozen overnight) and get a few degrees worth of cooling on really hot days.

#6 OFFLINE   James2

James2

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Locationmacon ga
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Tuxedo Black
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max energi

Posted 21 July 2016 - 09:24 PM

Air cooling happens to be one of my specialties. being an aircooled VW guy and all.

 

So, we got different factors, The 5 big ones I see are velocity, pressure, volume, surface area, and temperature difference between the air and the material being cooled.

 

These are all common sense if you think about it.

 

1.Velocity,  faster moving air removes more heat.

2. Pressure, it's better to push air thru the duct, rather than pull it. The slight pressure removes more heat. ( you don't want to compress it, that creates heat, but you not going to compress air with a fan anyways.

3. Volume, more air moved, more heat removed

4. Surface area, more surface inside ducts, more heat removed. More than likely can't do much here without big mods.

5. Temperature difference. Cooler air is going to remove more heat. duh.

 

So, I would think the easiest and simplest idea is just to place a small high velocity fan over the air intake for the battery cooling system. This would improve velocity, volume and pressure.

 

Down side is noise.

 

Where are the intakes at, I got  fans and a C-max. 



#7 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

Levi Smith

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Facebook
  • PipPip
  • 661 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationUpstate NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi 303A W Panoramic Roof

Posted 22 July 2016 - 03:27 AM

Dunno, off the top of my head, my thought is that it's already got air cooling.  I'm sure there's some room for improvement if you're willing to use up more space or something that Ford compromised on...  

 

But if your goal is actually to improve the cooling, I think the better bet is going to be a better sort of cooling in the first place...  Like liquid, or maybe some sort of direct vent from the car's AC system...



#8 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

Tom_NC_1

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 995 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationNC
  • Color:Sterling Gray
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi 302a

Posted 22 July 2016 - 04:35 AM

...

 

Where are the intakes at, I got  fans and a C-max. 

 

The intake vents are on the top vents on both the left and right side behind the rear seats.

 

Tom



#9 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,468 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi 302a with Moonroof

Posted 22 July 2016 - 09:09 AM

One easy thing to do is to leave the right rear chair folded down and remove the cover for the HVB disconnect plug.  I put my cover in the passenger seat rear pocket and having that cover out lets the hot air from charging come out easier than to stay cooped up in there which would help raise the HVB temp even more than necessary.

 

I've had mine like that since about a month ago, and I've also installed a window unit AC in the garage window, running that today to keep the garage temp from going much past 80F, its spicy hot outside at 95F right now.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 22 July 2016 - 09:11 AM.


#10 OFFLINE   James2

James2

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Locationmacon ga
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Tuxedo Black
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max energi

Posted 22 July 2016 - 08:45 PM

well, it would be simple to put a fan over the vent, I'm trying it now. Cost and effort is minimal.

 

Liquid cooling is going to require  a lot work and modifications.

 

From my limited observations, what I see is the battery takes a long time to heat up and cool because of it's mass. If their was a way to get near ambient temperature at night, then it might stay below 90 all day.

 

My idea is to have a  fan or fans running all night from 12 am when i get home, till 9 am or so when I get up. 

 

Right now I have 2 50 cfm  fans running now, one on each vent  , just something I had and threw on it to see. I pretty sure they are two small to do much, but we will see what the temp is in the morning.



#11 OFFLINE   James2

James2

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 64 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Locationmacon ga
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Tuxedo Black
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max energi

Posted 23 July 2016 - 05:04 PM

The two small fans did nothing.

 

I got the best result from plugging the car in and put it to wait value charging. The fan kicked in while it was waiting. Battery temp when I parked it was 98.6 and was 86 this morning.

 

Over might lows was 75, 



#12 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

cwstnsko

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 345 posts
  • Region:Canada Prairie Provinces
  • LocationWinnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
  • My C-MAX:2015
  • Color:Magnetic
  • Current Vehicle:2015 C-Max Energi

Posted 25 July 2016 - 07:44 AM

I think Liquid cooling would be a monumental undertaking. In this video of a teardown of a Volt battery, you can see how the liquid cooling is very highly integrated into the pack design.

 



#13 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,130 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 25 July 2016 - 09:43 AM

Since battery temperature is so important, and there is existing ductwork to pull cabin air across the battery, why not add more capacity to that system? 

 

What is the goal?



#14 OFFLINE   tr7driver

tr7driver

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Locationcentral
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Color:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max energi, Fusion Ti Hy, Mustang GT, Triumph TR7

Posted 25 July 2016 - 09:59 AM

One easy thing to do is to leave the right rear chair folded down and remove the cover for the HVB disconnect plug.  I put my cover in the passenger seat rear pocket and having that cover out lets the hot air from charging come out easier than to stay cooped up in there which would help raise the HVB temp even more than necessary.

 

I've had mine like that since about a month ago, and I've also installed a window unit AC in the garage window, running that today to keep the garage temp from going much past 80F, its spicy hot outside at 95F right now.

 

-=>Raja.

I pulled the door on mine after reading this and it is amazing how much warm air comes out of the opening.  I am wondering if this could disrupt the "planned" air flow and maybe result in some cells getting less cooling air than had been designed by the engineers as the air exits the door opening instead of flowing to the designated output vent.  On the other hand, when the fan is not running, this could become an air input opening. 



#15 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,468 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi 302a with Moonroof

Posted 25 July 2016 - 10:39 AM

I think that the heat that is coming out of there is not from the batteries but from the HVB charger inside the car.  My thought is that letting that heat out is better than letting it build and fester close to the HVB.  Its not part of the duct for cooling the HVB, I think that's in the back taking air from the top and then flowing past the HVB to somewhere (no-one has verified an exit point as of yet).

 

-=>Raja.



#16 OFFLINE   tr7driver

tr7driver

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 227 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • Locationcentral
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Color:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max energi, Fusion Ti Hy, Mustang GT, Triumph TR7

Posted 25 July 2016 - 12:32 PM

I think that the heat that is coming out of there is not from the batteries but from the HVB charger inside the car.  My thought is that letting that heat out is better than letting it build and fester close to the HVB.  Its not part of the duct for cooling the HVB, I think that's in the back taking air from the top and then flowing past the HVB to somewhere (no-one has verified an exit point as of yet).

 

-=>Raja.

Thanks for the insight, the way the heat was coming out of there I assumed I had breached the air flow channel. 

 

I'd like to see some drawings of what's under the battery cover.



#17 OFFLINE   MaxLB

MaxLB

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 61 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationSoCal
  • My C-MAX:2016
  • Color:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2016 C-Max NRG

Posted 25 July 2016 - 06:13 PM

Thanks for the insight, the way the heat was coming out of there I assumed I had breached the air flow channel. 

 

I'd like to see some drawings of what's under the battery cover.

Fordparts.com gives you diagrams of the battery area, fans, ducts, etc.  Just takes some searching around.



#18 OFFLINE   NedB

NedB

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 146 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse NY
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Cmax, 2005 FEH & 2007 Prius

Posted 28 July 2016 - 12:08 PM

What is the goal?


I've had to replace an HVB in my Prius. So if Heat is "The Enemy" of HVBs, I'd hazard a guess that a Mod to assist the existing system to remove or reduce that heat would be a good thing. A relative few $ and a bit of experimental work might extend the life of the HVB.

My FEH has a dedicated system that clunks whirs and cools the HVB. from the sounds of it Ford didnt put as complex a vent system as that in the CMax.

So... I thought it worth a try.

#19 OFFLINE   RubyMax

RubyMax

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 579 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationNortheast Ohio
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Ruby Red
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi, 302A, Pano; Focus Electric

Posted 28 July 2016 - 01:27 PM

The battery in the C-Max is about a fourth of the battery in the FFE, probably generating significantly less heat.



#20 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,468 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Color:Blue Candy
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi 302a with Moonroof

Posted 28 July 2016 - 05:30 PM

Almost in Ohio Ruby, will be there tomorrow on the way to Indiana!

 

-=>Raja.










0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·