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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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I now hate Ford and the Energi

transmission

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27 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Middleofnowhere

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 09:55 AM

My 2013 CMax is less than 3-years since purchased new, it now has 159K miles. Transmission needs to be replaced I am told, cost is $8K. I paid $34K for the car and still owe 2-years on it. Trade in value is $5K, which is less than I owe LOL. The dealership has provided me with a detailed quote to replace the transmission. I have called Ford customer service and they have pretty much told me to "pound sand".

My car is absolutely immaculate, everything works as it should. What a shame to throw away so much money on a vehicle like this. I really expected to get more than 160K miles out of it. I may look into replacing tranny from a wrecked CMax, I see some used transmissions available online. I am pretty handy working on autos, but I can't find much info on tackling a project like this.

Locally I see CMax energi 's for sale between $8K-$10K with less than 100,000 miles. I'm tempted, but don't want to be in same position as I am now with an effectively "totaled" car.

I am tempted to go back and edit all me previous posts raving about this car. If anyone has any ideas, I am open to suggestions.







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#2 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 10:19 AM

You actually drove it that far in just 3 years?  I got mine 3 years ago but only have just under 50k miles on it.  I'm sorry to lost the transmission on it, these things can happen.  Do you have any insight what might have caused it if anything and any advice for us to avoid doing to make the transmission last longer?

 

-=>Raja.


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#3 OFFLINE   Middleofnowhere

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 12:02 PM

Make sure your Transmission gets replaced under warranty is the only advice I can think of. Most of my mileage was freeway with very little regenerative braking compared with what city drivers experience. Freeway speed limit in my area is 70 mph. I often set cruise control at 75-80 mph depending on flow of traffic.

All I have done to this car is rotate/replace tires, change fluids and replace the starting battery. Car has been flawless until now. I'm going to do an accounting of cost per mile to see whether this car was worth owning. I can't sell or trade it in with transmission in current condition. I still have two more years of payments on this car too. I can't brag enough about how clean and good condition this car is in.

FYI, the car seemed to be getting louder (whirring sound) on deceleration for quite some time. It was so gradual I didn't think much of it.
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#4 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 12:54 PM

I replaced my Trans under warranty at 98K, but  I had extended the warranty  to 132K before hand to make sure I was covered. I currently have 135K mi.  on mine and it's paid off. If you knew you were going to put this many miles on the car you should have had it paid off in three years IMO. Cars aren't worth much with 160k mi. on them. If you decide to replace Trans with used one make sure it's a 2014 or newer. :smile2: BTW you have the highest mileage Trans to fail that I know of. :wink:  

 

Paul


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#5 OFFLINE   Middleofnowhere

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Posted 29 June 2016 - 04:17 PM

is there something better about the 2014 Trans than the 2013?

If I pay the $8K for the new transmission, they said they will give a 3-year unlimited mileage warranty. That is somewhat attractive.

A used tranny will likely cost $1500 + labor or my time (if I am capable). Then no warranty.

#6 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 02:50 AM

If it helps any...

 

https://lkqonline.co...saxle-Assembly/

 

I like the one in Stockton with only 18k miles!!!  Does have some sort of 6 month/6k mile warranty....

 

Buy the manual from Helm, and tackle it on your own.  (My humble opinion.)


Edited by jzchen, 30 June 2016 - 03:00 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   ls973800

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 04:16 AM

I have a 2012-2013 Ford Service Manual on DVD which I don't use anymore.  I just checked the transmission removal procedure for the 2013 Energi, and the first note was this.

 

NOTE: The transmission cannot be removed from the vehicle separate from the engine. Refer to engine removal to remove the transmission. Separate the transmission from the engine following the additional steps in this procedure.

 

Unless you have the tools and space to remove the engine, then remove the transmission from the engine while it is out of the car, this sounds like a job best left to a shop.


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#8 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 05:14 AM

It sucks to have an otherwise wonderful vehicle taken down by one component.  I had a 2004 Chrysler Pacifica that had the sunroof explode and when I went to replace it, the glass was not available, was no longer being made and there was no estimate of when, if ever the glass would be made again. The car sat in my garage in Seattle for 6 months with the glass on backorder, only being driven a few times a month on nice days. I was about to contact the insurance about totaling the car when I found a piece of glass in a junkyard back east listed on e-bay.  Luckily the glass made it to Seattle in one piece, and it lasted me until I traded the car in.

 

From what I have read on the C-Max hybrid forum, you have fallen into the magical combination of conditions that can cause a transmission failure. 2013 model year, lots of high-speed highway driving and lots of miles.

 

From a value perspective, I suspect your $34K "purchase price" is MSRP before incentives and tax credits. I also suspect that there is no vehicle of any brand or style being made today, that if financed over 5 years, then driven 55k miles per year, would not be in a negative equity position for the entire life of the loan.

 

Since the car has been a very good car for you, it seems like a no-brainer to fix it.  Whether you decide to go with a salvage transmission to save money, or spend the $$$$ for a new one and have the piece of mind than goes along with the 3-year unlimited mileage warranty.  I you go the salvage route, a trans from a newer model year might be a good call to pick up whatever improvement Ford made.  Given your driving patterns, it would be tempting to put in a trans from a newer hybrid to get the better gear ratio for high-speed driving, but I'd be afraid that there would be too many software/modules in the car that would not react well to a mechanical gear ratio change


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#9 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 05:31 AM

NOTE: The transmission cannot be removed from the vehicle separate from the engine. Refer to engine removal to remove the transmission. Separate the transmission from the engine following the additional steps in this procedure.

 

 

I had a 5 spd manual camry and the Toyota FSM said the same thing just for a f@$#ing clutch change: $2500! (majority dealership labor)   I typically handle most wrenching but this one I deferred to my "go to guy" who did it for $250 labor because he saw a simple (yet ingenious) way to keep both the ICE and trans in the bay.

 

If I were the OP, I would shop independent trans shops and consider a used, low miles swap.  


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#10 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 05:41 AM

Here is a pic of my ICE/Trans at the FORD Dealership.  This is a BIG JOB! You have to dismantle the front end of the car.  2014 and newer have better bearings. :wink: Looked at fordparts.com and their are four part#s, 2 Hbrid, 2 NRG and all for $4793.33 no specs to tell you what the differences are. :wink:

ICE/Trans
 
Paul

Edited by ptjones, 30 June 2016 - 05:51 AM.

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#11 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:32 AM

I wonder if limiting speed on the highway to 65mph helps with transmission life.  Is it getting hot from high speed driving and more than 65mph aggravates the issue further?  Ptjones, that was your transmission?  I've seen diesel use that picture before, did he work at that shop and replace your transmission?  Were you using the grill blocks at the time to increase engine temperature and gain MPG numbers?

 

-=>Raja.



#12 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:29 AM

I wonder if limiting speed on the highway to 65mph helps with transmission life.  Is it getting hot from high speed driving and more than 65mph aggravates the issue further?  Ptjones, that was your transmission?  I've seen diesel use that picture before, did he work at that shop and replace your transmission?  Were you using the grill blocks at the time to increase engine temperature and gain MPG numbers?

 

-=>Raja.

The first CMAX's with Trans failures were Taxi's and here is a Link to : http://fordcmaxhybri...e-failed/page-1  that has a lot of info on Trans. failures.  High % of HWY miles seems to be the common issue, some with only 20+k miles. HWY miles would mean higher Trans temps and maybe higher continuous load, I think maybe higher Trans temp is an indication that the Trans is going to fail,  which turned out to be in my case. I think it would be prudent if you have a 2013 CMAX to make sure your warranty is in effect as long as you own the car. :wink:

 

Paul



#13 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 07:30 AM

Raja, I have been doing quite a bit of interstate driving lately using EV Later and cruse control at about 66MPH when possible. Outside temperatures are 85 - 90ºf. The coolant temperature is what I would expect at about 200ºf. The transmission temperature is running <150ºf.  Most of my drives are between 30 to 60 minutes so I don't know if longer drive times would increase the transmission temperature and more than what I am seeing.

 

Tom



#14 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 08:05 AM

Thanks Tom!  That's about where I set my cruise when I go on trips, I don't let the coach speed bar turn yellow, if it goes yellow downhills and blue on flats I kick it down 1 notch.  Around 66 indicated is where that limit seems to be.  I would expect that the higher the speed the higher the transmission temps, maybe next time do the same trip but cruise at 76 instead of 66 and see if you spot any difference.  You'll need to pick a day and time with very similar weather conditions.

 

Paul, my warranty is for 125k miles and/or until 2020.  I'm just under 50k now but I expect that in 4 more years I'll be close to 125k if not over.  I have trips to Montreal, Indiana and New Brunswick coming up in the next 2 months -- that should add 5k miles easy.  You didn't say, did Diesel work on your car?  You know, that guy that used to post on this forum until he sold his Cmax?  Wait a minute, if you're in GA and he's in CA, he couldn't have, doesn't make sense.  BUT, he did post that same picture that you did and mentioned something about this is a transmission he's taking out or a job he was doing.  Was that not the case?

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 30 June 2016 - 08:08 AM.

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#15 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 10:47 AM

Thanks Tom!  That's about where I set my cruise when I go on trips, I don't let the coach speed bar turn yellow, if it goes yellow downhills and blue on flats I kick it down 1 notch.  Around 66 indicated is where that limit seems to be.  I would expect that the higher the speed the higher the transmission temps, maybe next time do the same trip but cruise at 76 instead of 66 and see if you spot any difference.  You'll need to pick a day and time with very similar weather conditions.

 

Paul, my warranty is for 125k miles and/or until 2020.  I'm just under 50k now but I expect that in 4 more years I'll be close to 125k if not over.  I have trips to Montreal, Indiana and New Brunswick coming up in the next 2 months -- that should add 5k miles easy.  You didn't say, did Diesel work on your car?  You know, that guy that used to post on this forum until he sold his Cmax?  Wait a minute, if you're in GA and he's in CA, he couldn't have, doesn't make sense.  BUT, he did post that same picture that you did and mentioned something about this is a transmission he's taking out or a job he was doing.  Was that not the case?

 

-=>Raja.

I had mine done at RICH FORD in Albuquerque, NM, it was their third one, I couldn't risk going any farther and get stuck out in the middle of nowhere. Trans temps are effected by duration, OT and WT(ICE).  Duration, the longer you drive the hotter the Trans gets until it reaches equilibrium, which is determened by OT and a lesser degree WT, ICE is bolted to Trans and transfers heat to it.  My TFT got up to about 200*F when it was failing. :wink:

 

Paul 


Edited by ptjones, 30 June 2016 - 10:47 AM.


#16 OFFLINE   tr7driver

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 11:57 AM

I have a 2012-2013 Ford Service Manual on DVD which I don't use anymore.  I just checked the transmission removal procedure for the 2013 Energi, and the first note was this.

 

NOTE: The transmission cannot be removed from the vehicle separate from the engine. Refer to engine removal to remove the transmission. Separate the transmission from the engine following the additional steps in this procedure.

 

Unless you have the tools and space to remove the engine, then remove the transmission from the engine while it is out of the car, this sounds like a job best left to a shop.

Its not unusual for front wheel drive cars to require removal of both the engine and tranny.


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#17 OFFLINE   dr61

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 06:12 PM

This may be a lubricant breakdown problem. Probably a good idea is to replace the transmission fluid every 75K miles or so (even though the Ford service schedule may not require it). 



#18 OFFLINE   Middleofnowhere

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 08:43 PM

I am 90% sure I'm going to have a Ford dealer fix it and continue to drive it like I do. 3-year unlimited mile warranty is the main selling feature. I do like this car a lot, the seating position, handling, etc. it is a pleasure to drive, and I drive a lot. I'm just disappointed with the KBB resale value and the cost of a new transmission. Especially since the car is still so good in all other aspects.

BTW, I own a GMC 2500HD 4X4 diesel with 266,000 miles. I did some rough numbers to calculate cost per mile of the truck vs. the energi. The energi has cost $0.35/mile if I include the transmission. The truck has cost approximately $0.34/mile. I factored fuel, fluids, repairs and tires. I did not factor insurance or resale value. Over the holiday I may run the numbers better as I am curious about my CMax experiment.

#19 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 30 June 2016 - 09:04 PM

Check to see maybe you can get another less used Cmax with a newer HVB that has better capacity that yours.  Maybe you can upgrade for similar cost to replacing the transmission?  What did you say it was 8K to get it done?

 

-=>Raja.



#20 OFFLINE   Middleofnowhere

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 04:03 AM

Will do. Looking at all options. I found a couple used CMax cars with way less than 100K in the $8-$10K range. I don't know about HVB capacity, it still seems pretty good to me, but who knows anymore.









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