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Energi HV Battery Replaced Under Warranty


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137 replies to this topic

#121 ONLINE   altabrig

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Posted 31 July 2017 - 04:40 PM

Regarding the temp, one important factory to keep in mind.
As battery gets depleted and voltage drops then car has to pull more Amps for the same power, which in turn generates more heat.
Example:
 
4.1V @ 4.1W = 1A
3.6V @ 4.1W = 1.14A
 
Not a huge difference but clearly more current is flowing through wires.
So now in summer if you are coming home on a almost empty battery which is already hot and you put load on it then it will pull more current and heat up more. For that reason I try not to arrive home with empty battery. Just before home I have a hill to climb and make sure to activate the engine for that last high load span. Once I am in residential area low speed limit then I switch back to EV.


Now wonder it keeps getting hotter.

My charge cable is 18 gauge. Seems like is should be thicker. I wonder if the ones they are putting in the 2017 cars are heavier gauge?







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#122 OFFLINE   Patrick Saindon

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 09:22 AM

In regards to battery degradation, I really like the message from bob_ninja.

Here up north (Montréal Canada), the overheat shall not be as terrible as you down south but I experience the same degradation with my 2 years old and 30k milles CMax energi. Now my max KW is down to 4.6. Picture I took in the first week of usage showed 5.9kw!

Last year I did experience some overheat warning on the dashboard while running electric. At first I found it funny since the ICE was not working. Now I understand that it was the battery yelling for help.

Could you imagine that here, with the most ev running in Canada (Québec has great incentives) there is only 1 tech trained that can troubleshoot CMax battery, Ford, I’M NOT IMPRESSED!

Ford Canada customer service did told me about cell balancing after 2 weeks of calls and waiting. THEY ARE HIDING THE REAL ROOTH CAUSE. The CMax is an Hybrid and shall never be consider an electric car if running over 40mph

I will have my HVB checked in 2 weeks, will post again.

For the class action, hope to have one started in Canada.



#123 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 07 August 2017 - 03:15 PM

Great post bob_ninja, and I agree with the followups from all - the issue is Ford neither limited battery degradation by technical safeguards nor explained best practices to customers (probably for fear of losing the sale if people felt the car had to be 'babied.')  For me the basis of the suit would be the warranty is for 10 years, but Ford refuses to state what level of capacity is warrantied - a warranty with no performance specification is meaningless, any claim can be refuted.  That was what Nissan was eventually forced under their equivalent lawsuit to define - the car must meet XX% of original capacity within 7 years or is out of specification and should be replaced.  Just define what XX% is.  


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#124 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 04:56 AM

  For me the basis of the suit would be the warranty is for 10 years,

Isn't the warranty only 8 years/100,000 miles?



#125 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 08 August 2017 - 04:59 AM

CA has a longer warranty. IIRC it is 10yr/150k mi


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#126 OFFLINE   bob_ninja

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Posted 09 August 2017 - 06:14 AM

Thanks all, appreciate it.

 

I think I found the problem. Here are the specs I found online:

 

CMax motor 68 kW, batteru 7.6 kWh

Soul EV motor 111 kW, battery 30 kWh

 

Therefore the maximum load on battery is:

CMax: 68 / 7.6 = 9C

Soul EV: 111 / 30 = 3.7C

 

So we have a problem here since 9C is too high. However note this would be rare, so how about normal cruising speeds on highway.

Using my Soul EV display I find the general power at average speed of 100 km/h, 55 mph is about 15 kW (summer):

 

CMax: 15 / 7.6 = 2C

Soul EV: 15 / 30 = 0.5C

 

So cruising on highway requires a moderate load from Soul battery while still fairly high load from CMax battery.

 

In fact I was wondering for my Engage/? display what are ticks for, 10 kW or 5 kW. I have 5 ticks so 50 kW.

At first I though that is way too high so should be 5 kW. Now I understand that electric motor is "too powerful" and indeed you can push electric motor to 50 kW based on specs. Ouch :(

 

So seems clear that Ford engineers installed electric motor that is too big in order to give us higher speeds in EV mode. This is likely selling point that Ford decided is very important. In retrospect it was a mistake. Clearly they cannot come out and say it in public. That being said we can use displays to avoid pushing battery too hard.

 

For myself the main rule is to never allow electric motor to go over 1 tick (10 kW) except for very short time. That would limit motor power to around 1C which should be fine long term. Also for myself using ICE gives short rest periods that help battery avoid heating up too much. Which brings us to be obvious question. How do you use battery at higher speeds while limiting electric motor to 10 kW max????

 

I think this car is made for P&G technique. I did a few trips this weekend and here is what I found:

 

Scenario 1, higher speeds:

So if you are going 110 km/h 60 mph or higher just set cruise control and forget EV mode. Use EV Later since power need is too high so ICE will do all the work. I found electric motor may assist when climbing slopes but for the most part it is idle. You will use more fuel but that is the price to pay to lack of patience ;)

 

Scenario 2, mid speed with more traffic, my commute to work:

 

The simple method is EV Later mode using Engage display to observe the EV threshold. Any time you need more power press pedal to keep power over the EV threshold:

1) pulse (to accelerate to upper speed limit)

2) climbing slopes

 

When you need less power release pedal to drop under EV threshold:

1) Glide (slow speed bleed while using less than 10 kW)

2) Down slope (use accumulated energy from pulse and less than 10 kW)

3) Slower traffic

 

This way you make ICE perform the hard work that requires more than 10 kW while electric motor takes over when you build up enough speed for nice easy coast/glide. Your average speed should still be high enough so you are not hypermiling to work. Simply select the P&G range that gives you desired average speed. For me:

1) pulse to 110 km/h

2) glide until 90 km/h

rinse and repeat

 

Using this method I can still get 60+ mpg

The key thing to note is that you may get home without using the full battery capacity. I often get home with 20% or 30% remaining because ICE handled a good chunk of the work and electric motor running at lower power uses less battery capacity. This is fine! In fact this is excellent for slowing down degradation since DOD is one of the most important factors of battery lifespan. So don't obsess about using full battery capacity. It will last a lot longer.

 

Final note,

 

CMax vs Soul EV comparison is not fair; it is apples to oranges. I am not comparing them in general.

I am only doing that to understand battery since my Soul EV battery has had so little degradation. I am using my Soul EV as a model of a great degradation model to figure out CMax and avoid issues that long timer owners have had.

 

They are completely different cars for different purposes. For myself I am doing long range travels with CMax while Soul EV is great within city limits.

 

I am in particular interested in your thoughts on highway driving (higher speeds) and how to use battery while maintaining longer lifespan. As you pointed out the battery warranty is vague on purpose so I really want to avoid having to replace mine.



#127 OFFLINE   bob_ninja

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 04:07 AM

Above I think I said "Engage" but meant "Empower" display, the one that shows rectangle for EV mode.

 

The second method is more work and may get boring after a while. However it does give you more control.

Same as above, pulse/glide as appropriate. However you can keep switching between Auto and EV Later modes to force engine on and off. By changing modes you have better control over the gas engine. Auto mode has a much higher threshold for EV mode allowing temporary higher load while staying in EV mode. For instance there may be a small incline follow by down slope so you want to allow short period of 10+ kW electric motor power knowing that you will go back below 10 kW soon after.

 

This "active management" method can provide more opportunities for EV mode at the cost of having to keep pressing the mode button to manage modes.



#128 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 12:54 PM

To slow capacity loss, some recent suggestions have been to not use EV at all in the summer, plug in only once a day, don't drive in EV up steep hills, closely monitor usage gauges, etc.  What's the point of going to extremes to not use the battery?  


Edited by fotomoto, 10 August 2017 - 01:03 PM.

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#129 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 10 August 2017 - 05:19 PM

Longer battery life.  If you lease the car forget about this and do whatever you want, not your problem.  If you own the car, best to use the battery slowly so that by the time you get to 200k on the car your battery is starting to get worn.  If you use the battery exclusively you can kill it in 30k.  

 

Its just common sense stuff.  You can do things one way or another way.  But if you're better informed the other way isn't that much harder to do.  Its just a different way and it extends your battery life so why not?

 

I'm really not a big fan of pulse and glide, its annoying to me.  I hate speeding up and slowing down all the time, it takes away from my comfort level.  In fact I hate to ride with someone who pulses the gas all the time, on then off then on then off.  They are not necessarily pulsing and gliding, they just don't have a steady foot and it drives me nuts.  The gas pedal is proportional, not on or off!

 

-=>Raja.



#130 OFFLINE   bob_ninja

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 04:52 AM

Indeed that is the main problem with P&G

Personally I only do it when there are no vehicles behind me or they are very far. P&G should always have lower priority to respecting the road and other vehicles, absolutely.



#131 OFFLINE   bsheaffer

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:13 PM

Can't tell you all how glad I am to have bought a battery powered car that I can't drive on battery for fear of damaging the battery. 



#132 ONLINE   altabrig

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Posted 11 August 2017 - 12:22 PM

At 45K and 4.5 years.   I charged on a Level 2 at a friend's who owns a leaf.   I had discharged the HVB 100% and used most of the hybrid battery.   

 

The level two charged the car is less than 1.5 hours.    1 hour 25 minutes to be more precise.   My personal level one charge cord overheats so often (4 times last night) and faults and shuts off that it is almost non-operational at this point.  After putting in new outlets on dedicated circuits and trying two different 12 gauge extensions,  the only thing that is the problem seems to be the charge cord and more specifically the plug.  Same as the last one that failed.

 

That is a pretty solid indicator of capacity loss.  I think I must be around 3.7 based on MFM information.



#133 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 05:49 AM

Can't tell you all how glad I am to have bought a battery powered car that I can't drive on battery for fear of damaging the battery. 

You can absolutely drive on the battery.  Just like you should absolutely use the engine.  What Raja is saying, is that choosing when to use battery vs gas, where it is most efficient and less damaging, can prolong your battery and engine as well.


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#134 ONLINE   rbort

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 07:06 AM

Another example for you.  Yesterday I drove the car the 100% of the battery all in 1 fell swoop from Franklin to Fall River for 37 miles straight, see my post on this forum in the battery section.  Anyway, I drove back on the engine, didn't charge it in Fall River as the sun was hot and the car was outside, I actually moved it under a tree down the road from the house I was visiting as I felt its just getting hotter and hotter outside and didn't want my car to bake.

 

When I got home I needed to go 1 mile down the road to a friend to drill a part on a lathe.  I plugged the car in but just a few minutes later I come out into the garage and the fan is racing inside the car to cool the battery.  Whoa, my signal the battery is hot.  So I unplugged it forget about charging the battery any more yesterday.

 

This morning I plugged the car in, its charging now.  The fan is running slow, so in my opinion its "safe to charge".  The car talks to you, you just have to listen.  I won't charge it all the way to 100%, in fact just to around 30% and leave it there, I don't need any more at the moment, and trying to leave the battery in general at a lower charge level than higher, as time ticks daily and the lower the average charge level the better over the long term.  I don't want to leave it at 0% as I don't want to be caught with my pants down trying to go somewhere and its dead.  30% is good for now, if I need to go somewhere later I'll plug it in and bring it up some more before I leave.

 

Just a different way of doing things.   A new battery can give out say 5.6kwh per charge like yesterday, my old battery after 4 years was down to 5.3kwh, whereas if you plug the car in all the time and use the battery all the time, some people's batteries are down to 3.7kwh from 5.6.  There is a difference.  And I did get over 43k miles out of 73k miles on battery, so its not like I hardly used my previous battery, I used it alot, I was just more careful with heat and usage making decisions throughout its life, one time I remember stopping charging and leaving with only 50% charge in Montpelier VT as the car was hot and the fan was racing in a sunny afternoon charging on 240v at the town hall.

 

Below a picture of my lifetime summary of the 2013 Cmax.  I tell you all these things for the past 3 years so all you guys can do better as well, to help you out, not to make you feel stupid or anything like that.  I hope its coming off the right way, just trying to help.  Please listen.  I've had many people blow me off and tell me Ford designed it right and I'm not going to worry about anything, I just plug it in every time I get home right away and that's it.

 

Best regards to all and enjoy this wonderful car, with a little extra knowledge, you can make it alot better than Ford advertised it.  Yesterday I filled up the tank at Crossroads auto Center in Seakonk, MA, got a range of 626 miles.  Here let me show you with another picture so you see for yourself, just added below.  Think about this a minute.  Ford says how much?  39mpg on gas from my window sticker (see below), and I just got 626 miles range on 14 gallons.  So that's 626/14 or 44.7mpg on gas only.  5 mpg more than stated by Ford.  Its all in how you drive the car.  Ford is now stating MPG for lead footed drivers so that there is no questions on MPG.  Originally they stated it for Hybrid vehicle driving style, you know with full blue bars or mostly full, and stated it at 43mpg, still achievable but people complained.  You get the idea...., and we all got paid $750 from the complainers by Ford, thanks :)

 

-=>Raja.

Attached Files


Edited by rbort, 14 August 2017 - 07:14 AM.


#135 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 07:45 AM

Thanks all, appreciate it.

 

I think I found the problem. Here are the specs I found online:

 

CMax motor 68 kW, batteru 7.6 kWh

Soul EV motor 111 kW, battery 30 kWh

 

Therefore the maximum load on battery is:

CMax: 68 / 7.6 = 9C

Soul EV: 111 / 30 = 3.7C

 

So we have a problem here since 9C is too high. However note this would be rare, so how about normal cruising speeds on highway.

Using my Soul EV display I find the general power at average speed of 100 km/h, 55 mph is about 15 kW (summer):

 

CMax: 15 / 7.6 = 2C

Soul EV: 15 / 30 = 0.5C

 

So cruising on highway requires a moderate load from Soul battery while still fairly high load from CMax battery.

 

In fact I was wondering for my Engage/? display what are ticks for, 10 kW or 5 kW. I have 5 ticks so 50 kW.

At first I though that is way too high so should be 5 kW. Now I understand that electric motor is "too powerful" and indeed you can push electric motor to 50 kW based on specs. Ouch :(

 

So seems clear that Ford engineers installed electric motor that is too big in order to give us higher speeds in EV mode. This is likely selling point that Ford decided is very important. In retrospect it was a mistake. Clearly they cannot come out and say it in public. That being said we can use displays to avoid pushing battery too hard.

 

For myself the main rule is to never allow electric motor to go over 1 tick (10 kW) except for very short time. That would limit motor power to around 1C which should be fine long term. Also for myself using ICE gives short rest periods that help battery avoid heating up too much. Which brings us to be obvious question. How do you use battery at higher speeds while limiting electric motor to 10 kW max????

 

I think this car is made for P&G technique. I did a few trips this weekend and here is what I found:

 

Scenario 1, higher speeds:

So if you are going 110 km/h 60 mph or higher just set cruise control and forget EV mode. Use EV Later since power need is too high so ICE will do all the work. I found electric motor may assist when climbing slopes but for the most part it is idle. You will use more fuel but that is the price to pay to lack of patience ;)

 

Scenario 2, mid speed with more traffic, my commute to work:

 

The simple method is EV Later mode using Engage display to observe the EV threshold. Any time you need more power press pedal to keep power over the EV threshold:

1) pulse (to accelerate to upper speed limit)

2) climbing slopes

 

When you need less power release pedal to drop under EV threshold:

1) Glide (slow speed bleed while using less than 10 kW)

2) Down slope (use accumulated energy from pulse and less than 10 kW)

3) Slower traffic

 

This way you make ICE perform the hard work that requires more than 10 kW while electric motor takes over when you build up enough speed for nice easy coast/glide. Your average speed should still be high enough so you are not hypermiling to work. Simply select the P&G range that gives you desired average speed. For me:

1) pulse to 110 km/h

2) glide until 90 km/h

rinse and repeat

 

Using this method I can still get 60+ mpg

The key thing to note is that you may get home without using the full battery capacity. I often get home with 20% or 30% remaining because ICE handled a good chunk of the work and electric motor running at lower power uses less battery capacity. This is fine! In fact this is excellent for slowing down degradation since DOD is one of the most important factors of battery lifespan. So don't obsess about using full battery capacity. It will last a lot longer.

 

Final note,

 

CMax vs Soul EV comparison is not fair; it is apples to oranges. I am not comparing them in general.

I am only doing that to understand battery since my Soul EV battery has had so little degradation. I am using my Soul EV as a model of a great degradation model to figure out CMax and avoid issues that long timer owners have had.

 

They are completely different cars for different purposes. For myself I am doing long range travels with CMax while Soul EV is great within city limits.

 

I am in particular interested in your thoughts on highway driving (higher speeds) and how to use battery while maintaining longer lifespan. As you pointed out the battery warranty is vague on purpose so I really want to avoid having to replace mine.

This goes along the lines of my "How to drive a CMAX Hybrid/FFH to get Great gas Mileage" YouTube video with kind of P&G " start with EV to 15 mph, then accelerate to 5 mph over cruising speed and let off the gas pedal and go back to EV."  If you want to keep HVB cooler use N down hill to give a chance for the HVB to cool down and only when it is safe to do. :smile2: 

 

Paul 



#136 OFFLINE   bsheaffer

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Posted Today, 01:55 PM

You can absolutely drive on the battery.  Just like you should absolutely use the engine.  What Raja is saying, is that choosing when to use battery vs gas, where it is most efficient and less damaging, can prolong your battery and engine as well.

 

I suppose I should have said:

 

Can't tell you all how glad I am to have bought a battery powered car where I can't charge the battery for fear of damaging the battery.

 

I'm pretty much convinced that my battery damage came from charging the battery when it was too hot. I'd get home and plug it in - go figure. Over 25% gone in 1 summer when it was only about 1.5 years old.

 

 

It's just after reading all the comments about how the engine is too powerful, the battery is too low capacity, the speeds are too high, there's no protection or cut off of high power drain... just kinda made me realize that not only is charging problematic, but just using the car for the reason I bought it was a bad idea. 

 

I had my previous car for 17 years and only sold it because my commute changed (lots more traffic). The overall mileage of that car was pretty close to when I bought it (22mpg vs 24), but sitting in traffic for an hour just gulped gas. I bought the promises of Ford marketing (can go highway speeds; we know batteries; we're committed to green driving; we warranty the battery), only to find that marketing and service were soooo not talking to each other.

 

I know some of the problems are my own. I bought a 'first gen' plug-in; I was unprepared for the differences in 'care and feeding' between battery power and gas power. But I've learned: I rarely drive over 60 mph, never accel quickly, definitely don't charge if the air temp is even close to 80F. Even 4.5 years later, with my (now ~30%) capacity loss, I can still get over 20 miles to a charge.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Ford poorly designed key aspects of the Energi: poor battery cooling and power management, almost non-existent battery monitoring (ok, they added %, but temp?), abysmal battery service and support (service techs still know NOTHING about capacity and STILL point me to the range indicator!). The Energi series is 5 years old, and there are no improvements to the design/implementation, nor education, nor support. I've talked to new owners, and they know nothing about the heat issue. The only good information is from these forums! (And yes, I point new owners here!)

 

I used to be a bit of a satirist, so for fun I wrote the following (based on actual conversations...):

 

Marketing:

"We have this new car that runs on gas. We've designed it to go 300 miles. We've even used technology to enable the car to drive on gas at highway speeds! We have several years of experience with gas cars, and we really know what we're doing. BTW - some fuel tank capacity loss is to be expected over time (please see the manual for tips on how to maximize capacity). We fully warranty the car; and the gas system itself is warrantied for 7 years."
 
Conversation with Ford Service:
B: I used to be able to put 14 gallons of gas in the tank. I've lost over 25% capacity.
FS: We checked the computer. There's no error.
B: But 2 years ago, I could put 14 gallons in, now it only holds ~10.5 gallons.
FS: There's no error. And we said you could go 300 miles. Says here on the display 310 miles to empty. Sometimes when it's cooler, that can affect how far you can go.
B: But I drive 10 miles below the speed limit, I start very slow, and take a while to stop. Plus, I climb hills very slowly, all to maximize my mileage.
FS: Good on you!
B: But it's only 2 years and 30k miles, the tank should have the same capacity as when I bought it.
FS: I don't really know what you mean about capacity. The display says 310 miles to empty.
B: I'm not talking about range. That display is only a guestimate anyway.
FS: Really! Cool. There's no error.
B: Could you ask Ford Central if there's a problem or a test to prove the capacity is reduced.
FS: Sure. FC, this guy says there's something about capacity.
FC: There's no error. The mile estimate is only an estimate based on how you drive, and we don't use or accept that as a indicator of anything. Don't even bring up range to us. We don't even talk about range. But congrats on 310 miles - that shows you don't have a problem!
B: What about the warranty?
FC: We have one. It's pretty good too. We've just extended it to 10 years.
B: And???
FC: There's no error.
 
Community Information:
It's simple: Never fill your tank more than once and don't fill it full (guess when to stop, because there's no indicator, and the controls won't stop automatically). Don't fill your tank on days warmer than 80F. Certainly not when the tank itself is warmer than 113F. Don't drive up hills. Don't drive highway speeds. Don't buy Ford.

FC: By the way, it's now 4 years later, and, not only do we still cool the tank via inner-cabin air, we don't acknowledge any concept of tank capacity - nor do we offer a way to monitor tank temperature or even explain what the tank warranty covers. Did you ever look at the manual for those tips?
M: <crickets>

 

/grain of salt


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#137 ONLINE   altabrig

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Posted Today, 03:11 PM

I suppose I should have said:

 

Can't tell you all how glad I am to have bought a battery powered car where I can't charge the battery for fear of damaging the battery.

 

I'm pretty much convinced that my battery damage came from charging the battery when it was too hot. I'd get home and plug it in - go figure. Over 25% gone in 1 summer when it was only about 1.5 years old.

 

 

It's just after reading all the comments about how the engine is too powerful, the battery is too low capacity, the speeds are too high, there's no protection or cut off of high power drain... just kinda made me realize that not only is charging problematic, but just using the car for the reason I bought it was a bad idea. 

 

I had my previous car for 17 years and only sold it because my commute changed (lots more traffic). The overall mileage of that car was pretty close to when I bought it (22mpg vs 24), but sitting in traffic for an hour just gulped gas. I bought the promises of Ford marketing (can go highway speeds; we know batteries; we're committed to green driving; we warranty the battery), only to find that marketing and service were soooo not talking to each other.

 

I know some of the problems are my own. I bought a 'first gen' plug-in; I was unprepared for the differences in 'care and feeding' between battery power and gas power. But I've learned: I rarely drive over 60 mph, never accel quickly, definitely don't charge if the air temp is even close to 80F. Even 4.5 years later, with my (now ~30%) capacity loss, I can still get over 20 miles to a charge.

 

But that doesn't change the fact that Ford poorly designed key aspects of the Energi: poor battery cooling and power management, almost non-existent battery monitoring (ok, they added %, but temp?), abysmal battery service and support (service techs still know NOTHING about capacity and STILL point me to the range indicator!). The Energi series is 5 years old, and there are no improvements to the design/implementation, nor education, nor support. I've talked to new owners, and they know nothing about the heat issue. The only good information is from these forums! (And yes, I point new owners here!)

 

I used to be a bit of a satirist, so for fun I wrote the following (based on actual conversations...):

 

Marketing:

"We have this new car that runs on gas. We've designed it to go 300 miles. We've even used technology to enable the car to drive on gas at highway speeds! We have several years of experience with gas cars, and we really know what we're doing. BTW - some fuel tank capacity loss is to be expected over time (please see the manual for tips on how to maximize capacity). We fully warranty the car; and the gas system itself is warrantied for 7 years."
 
Conversation with Ford Service:
B: I used to be able to put 14 gallons of gas in the tank. I've lost over 25% capacity.
FS: We checked the computer. There's no error.
B: But 2 years ago, I could put 14 gallons in, now it only holds ~10.5 gallons.
FS: There's no error. And we said you could go 300 miles. Says here on the display 310 miles to empty. Sometimes when it's cooler, that can affect how far you can go.
B: But I drive 10 miles below the speed limit, I start very slow, and take a while to stop. Plus, I climb hills very slowly, all to maximize my mileage.
FS: Good on you!
B: But it's only 2 years and 30k miles, the tank should have the same capacity as when I bought it.
FS: I don't really know what you mean about capacity. The display says 310 miles to empty.
B: I'm not talking about range. That display is only a guestimate anyway.
FS: Really! Cool. There's no error.
B: Could you ask Ford Central if there's a problem or a test to prove the capacity is reduced.
FS: Sure. FC, this guy says there's something about capacity.
FC: There's no error. The mile estimate is only an estimate based on how you drive, and we don't use or accept that as a indicator of anything. Don't even bring up range to us. We don't even talk about range. But congrats on 310 miles - that shows you don't have a problem!
B: What about the warranty?
FC: We have one. It's pretty good too. We've just extended it to 10 years.
B: And???
FC: There's no error.
 
Community Information:
It's simple: Never fill your tank more than once and don't fill it full (guess when to stop, because there's no indicator, and the controls won't stop automatically). Don't fill your tank on days warmer than 80F. Certainly not when the tank itself is warmer than 113F. Don't drive up hills. Don't drive highway speeds. Don't buy Ford.

FC: By the way, it's now 4 years later, and, not only do we still cool the tank via inner-cabin air, we don't acknowledge any concept of tank capacity - nor do we offer a way to monitor tank temperature or even explain what the tank warranty covers. Did you ever look at the manual for those tips?
M: <crickets>

 

/grain of salt

Classic.  

 

 

 

I did choose the C MAX because I could drive it up to high speed while on the EV Mode.  That was a key marketing point that I was sold on.

 

The discussion of battery care is informative and valuable.  But if I had known how much care and driving restrictions would be placed on the battery usage to maintain capacity, I am not sure Chunk would have been purchased.

 

Capacity keeps droping.   

 

Mine has done this five times in the last 5 hours.   My second charge cable faults and stops charging almost every time.  FUN!  It is not the outlet.  I have done the troubleshooting, installed new outlets on a discrete circuit and tried 12 guage extensions.

 

  • 08/18/2017 3:50:58 pmChunk: Scheduled charge did not begin - external fault
  • 08/18/2017 2:31:31 pmChunk: Scheduled charge did not begin - external fault
  • 08/18/2017 12:58:37 pmChunk: Scheduled charge did not begin - external fault
  • 08/18/2017 12:02:02 pmChunk: Scheduled charge did not begin - external fault
  • 08/18/2017 10:29:58 amChunk: Scheduled charge did not begin - external fault


#138 ONLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,612 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi 302a with Moonroof

Posted Today, 04:03 PM

You guys FAIL to understand that batteries degrade. Somehow you want the capacity to remain the same forever, want to do whatever and never see any issues. The only possible way is to oversized the battery and underuse it, then it would seem to the customer that there is no problems at all.

Also forgotten is that Ford said 20 miles and you can actually get 37 miles with a new battery, see my other post. So 4 years later I was still getting over 20 miles and you are still getting over 20 miles. So Ford gave you more battery than you actually need to get 20 miles and planned for the worst case driving to guarantee at least 20 miles initially.

Maybe they thought you would get better at it and you would maintain 20 miles for 8 years as your driving skills improved even with a degrading battery.

Yes the cooling is not as perfect but this car weighs 4000lbs already, contains two complete power systems, the EV motor with the HVB and the gas engine with a 14 gallon talk. You can go over 600 miles on gas, plus over 20 miles on battery.

I am really very happy with this car, I realize I have to be careful with the battery if I want longer life but heck I bought an engine too. The biggest problem with this car is that people buy it and try to never use the engine at all, always on battery always fast charging and going in and out of the house several times a day,lugging a dead engine and 14 gallon talk around praising how long the dealer gas lasts. Yes one guy here on the forum even tried to go back to the dealer 10 months later and asked them to ciphon out the 11 gallons of gas he still had in his Cmax to put into his explorer because he didn't want the gas to spoil and he didn't want to start the Cmax engine no blow his 538 mpg running streak. Seriously, I kid you not!

-=>Raja.








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