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Energi HV Battery Replaced Under Warranty


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107 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:44 AM

First of all, there is always going to be wear and tear on the battery, but depending on how you treat the battery, there could be more excessive wear and tear that many are seeing here now.  I've been trying to preach how to take care of the battery for the last 2+ years, and many at the time discarded what I said and decided that Ford should have designed everything perfectly and that no worries just plug it in all the time so its always ready to go.  The trouble is, some people went beyond the car's design and intended use by trying to not use the engine at all which aggravated the issue even more.  

 

Well unfortunately and sadly many of you have managed to damage the battery, most recently my buddy Ansy, even though I've told him stuff he chose to ignore it and always plugged in the car, sometimes driving on the highway at 70mph when he was late to work this year (and I told him don't do this start the engine), plus charging in the heat so he could try to always go on battery.  Well that's all water under the bridge now, but my problem with this is that it is unlikely and not economically feasible for Ford to replace everyone's battery.  Sure I would love to get mine replaced as well, and conceivably I could damage it on purpose to get that done, but is it really fair to Ford?  I don't think so...You guys may be pushing Ford out of business if they had to replace all the batteries free for everyone.

 

Just thinking out loud here, what's your opinion about this?

 

-=>Raja.

Sorry Raja, I don't align with your position.  The way you phrased your comment seems to me to be putting responsibility for the battery degradation on the owners and their driving/charging habits, not on Ford where it belongs.  Ford could have either designed the software and/or cooling system to prevent accelerated degradation (such as preventing charging when battery is hot, limiting upper charge at 80%, etc.) or at least given specific instructions in the manual what to expect.  But that would have alerted potential buyers to the issue - why pay extra for an Energi if in 3-4 years it'll be driving like a Cmax Hybrid??  Or specifically state in the warranty that what they guaranteed was it would run as a hybrid, which only requires around 2 kwh capacity, not the 7.5 kwh they needed to qualify the car for EPA and IRS rebates as a PHEV.  Either of the latter would have alerted buyers to the issue coming down the road, that many of us now are facing.  You, and several others, have used extraordinary measures to preserve the battery capacity, in some ways (at least to me) limiting your use and enjoyment of the car.  If I have to hesitate accelerating to 70 MPH on a highway, or coasting in neutral to avoid regenerative braking or discharge, or never charging twice in the same day, then it ain't fun no more.  So now that Ford has told me my 5.3 kwh maximum capacity is down from 7.5 due to 'normal wear and tear' with no definition anywhere of what IS normal, my options are to 1) pursue in court of either public opinion or legal (as in a Nissan Leaf-type action); 2) enjoy my hybrid Cmax with some PHEV kicker or 3) whine.  Whine is not an option.


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#42 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:50 AM

Hey guys, very Interesting reading about this problem. I have 2013 NRG and only 24,000 miles on it. From what I am reading, it appears this issue is appearing on cars with much more mileage, hence more charging up of the battery. But, I am a simple person and reading thru the string of comments, I cannot figure out what is the simple way of testing this. If age/use/recharge of the battery is the problem, i may not see a problem, but would like to keep an eye on it. How can I go about this?

 

Thanks!

The most definitive test is to read the PID BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM when the car is at 100% charge as shown on the touchscreen.  That reads the absolute total capacity of the HVB battery, has nothing to do with how you drive, etc., that dramatically affects estimated miles on the screen.  Any Ford dealer can do this is 5 minutes once the car is charged (just charge it full and drive in on EV_LATER).  Or like I did you can get a bluetooth OBD2 reader (around $15) and an Android phone app like TorquePro or FORSCAN and read it yourself.  A new/good battery should read over 7 kwh.  Mine is 5.3 at 3 years, 31,000 miles.



#43 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:14 AM

Well I hope you guys can get it replaced, I'm not saying no you shouldn't be allowed to do it, but I'm thinking that there are many circumstances for battery usage and degradation, and Ford apparently did not expect some of the usage that people have put on the battery.  If you can get them to state what % is considered unusual, then I would guess that anyone who gets to that capacity is eligible for battery replacement before the 8 years 100k miles.

 

So far 1 guy got it replaced, mipmapped.   Let's see how you guys make out.  If they are replacing batteries in CA, then maybe I need to drive to California to visit my brother and get the battery replaced just before 100k miles, I too would love a fresh start, and the way I know how to drive now, I might get 35+ miles per charge :)

 

-=>Raja.


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#44 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 01:05 PM

Ford's response to 33% battery degradation after 32,500 miles.
 
So after a 3 week journey, here is Ford's joke of a response to 33% battery degradation after 32,500 miles / 3 years. (I charge once a day and keep battery half full for 10 hours out of the day, but I live in Florida where it is always hot. My average speed for the last 3 years has been a painful 45mph, all for nothing).
 
Ford's response to battery degradation

 


Edited by David Burnett, 20 September 2016 - 01:20 PM.


#45 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 05:59 PM

In the 32500 k miles, how many of those are electric vs ice miles?  Do you have the lifetime summary to see? 

 

3000 miles per charge almost means that you were driving mostly EV?  When did you drive once per day, at night or during the day in the heat of the day.

 

Is the car parked outside in the sun every day, or in a garage?

 

Just trying to understand your circumstances.

 

-=>Raja.



#46 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:14 PM

 

 

Sorry Raja, I don't align with your position.  The way you phrased your comment seems to me to be putting responsibility for the battery degradation on the owners and their driving/charging habits, not on Ford where it belongs.  Ford could have either designed the software and/or cooling system to prevent accelerated degradation (such as preventing charging when battery is hot, limiting upper charge at 80%, etc.) or at least given specific instructions in the manual what to expect.  But that would have alerted potential buyers to the issue - why pay extra for an Energi if in 3-4 years it'll be driving like a Cmax Hybrid??  Or specifically state in the warranty that what they guaranteed was it would run as a hybrid, which only requires around 2 kwh capacity, not the 7.5 kwh they needed to qualify the car for EPA and IRS rebates as a PHEV.  Either of the latter would have alerted buyers to the issue coming down the road, that many of us now are facing.  You, and several others, have used extraordinary measures to preserve the battery capacity, in some ways (at least to me) limiting your use and enjoyment of the car.  If I have to hesitate accelerating to 70 MPH on a highway, or coasting in neutral to avoid regenerative braking or discharge, or never charging twice in the same day, then it ain't fun no more.  So now that Ford has told me my 5.3 kwh maximum capacity is down from 7.5 due to 'normal wear and tear' with no definition anywhere of what IS normal, my options are to 1) pursue in court of either public opinion or legal (as in a Nissan Leaf-type action); 2) enjoy my hybrid Cmax with some PHEV kicker or 3) whine.  Whine is not an option.

 

Rich:

 

Just for the record I do enjoy the car very much and use it as much as I can - I have 55k miles 32k of which are EV miles in 3 years time.  I do charge more than once a day especially when I go somewhere 30 miles away, charge back up and return home, that's not out of the ordinary for me.  What does help is that I don't accelerate very hard and try to go easy on the battery, I don't drive on the highway at speeds of higher than 55 on battery, though on some occasions in the past I have done faster like 60 to 65 but I have stopped that practice.  I just ride in the right lane and watch the rear view mirror and people move around me.  My speed on the highway is usually based on my range anticipation, so if I'm going further I drive slower, like 50 or 48.  If I need to go faster I start the engine then I go 66mph.  I  hardly ever drive in N, I'm not a fan of pulse and glide at all, I mostly leave it in D and use CC, and shift to L to bank more charge when I'm trying to go 30 miles at night on battery trying to avoid the brake lights when possible as they cut into a 30 mile range trip.

 

I try to avoid charging in the sun during the middle of the day.  If I need to/have to, I try to park under a tree whenever possible.  In Canada I had to go the extreme and put up an EZ-UP tent for my car to be in the shade while at the field all day as I didn't want it to bake in the sun especially since I also needed to recharge it, otherwise I could have parked it somewhere further away under a tree.  I never plug my car in all the time and leave it at 100%.  I only plug it in shortly before I'm going to need it.  I don't use 240v whenever possible, never at home (don't have it), only use that on the road when I need the car in 2 hours or less, at home I have plenty of time and much rather lower current charging.

 

You are in San Diego so weather heat couldn't really be much of an issue for you.  Its mostly very pleasant weather there for sure not any worse than here in the Northeast for me.  You are just less cold in the winter but not hot in the summer.  Yes last year was the exception when it was in the 90's to 100 for a few days and people were up in arms talking about it all the time on the news, but here also he have many days over 90 in the summer, this summer has been an especially warm one and very dry indeed.

 

My guess your issue was probably related to recharging the car often on 240v so you can drive on EV most of the time.  Maybe several times a day.   Maybe you can post the answers to the questions I asked of David, just out of curiosity for all of us here to see what the common factor is of the battery losing capacity.  

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 20 September 2016 - 06:18 PM.


#47 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 07:46 PM

They reset my lifetime summary at the dealership, evidently.  However I still have Trip 1 going from when I first got the car and it says I used 276 gallons of gas which works out to roughly 6,000 miles on the ICE.  So I have 26,500 miles on the battery.

 

I drive the same pattern every day, 14.8 miles to work and 14.8 back.  I can't plug in at work, I always park under the shade, if I'm late to work I shift to gas to avoid going high speeds on the battery so I can make full use of the battery, I try never to go faster than 55 on the battery. I have a garage where it is usually parked, when I can't park it in the garage I park it in the shade.  I always use preconditioning before I go to work.  Originally I would have half the battery left when I got to work.  I still try to maintain that even though I can only use the battery during half my daily trip.

 

Once every other week or so I go to my parents who also have a L2 connected to solar power and I charge up while I'm there.  That is pretty much the only time I charge more than once per day.

 

My mother's car can only get 4.3kwh and it is also a 2013 and only has 15,000 miles.  She only drives the car for short trips a few times a week.  She keeps it in a nice garage all the time but its always plugged in.

 

In the 32500 k miles, how many of those are electric vs ice miles?  Do you have the lifetime summary to see? 

 

3000 miles per charge almost means that you were driving mostly EV?  When did you drive once per day, at night or during the day in the heat of the day.

 

Is the car parked outside in the sun every day, or in a garage?

 

Just trying to understand your circumstances.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by David Burnett, 20 September 2016 - 07:51 PM.


#48 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:28 AM

Hey guys, very Interesting reading about this problem. I have 2013 NRG and only 24,000 miles on it. From what I am reading, it appears this issue is appearing on cars with much more mileage, hence more charging up of the battery.

Higher mileage could mean more ICE miles. What matters is the total EV miles. My Fusion Energi had only about 40-45% EV miles when I sold it because it was primarily a road trip car. We used the Focus Electric for all our local driving since it could go a lot farther on battery power.

 

The most definitive test is to read the PID BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM when the car is at 100% charge as shown on the touchscreen.  That reads the absolute total capacity of the HVB battery, has nothing to do with how you drive, etc., that dramatically affects estimated miles on the screen.  Any Ford dealer can do this is 5 minutes once the car is charged (just charge it full and drive in on EV_LATER).  Or like I did you can get a bluetooth OBD2 reader (around $15) and an Android phone app like TorquePro or FORSCAN and read it yourself.  A new/good battery should read over 7 kwh.  Mine is 5.3 at 3 years, 31,000 miles.

Your car only estimates about 5.3 kWh of ETE when fully charged? My parents' C-Max Energi is 39 months old and has 22,000 miles. About 20,000 of those miles are EV miles. Their ETE estimates around 6.85-6.90 when fully charged, but they only get about 5.0 kWh according to the Trip Meter on a full discharge. Remember that the Energi switches to hybrid mode at about 1.5 kWh ETE & will not allow the HVB to go below about 1.0 kWh ETE. So if you take your ETE and subtract 1.0 you get the absolute maximum amount of possible energy available in the HVB.

 

However, it is important to remember that ETE is just an estimate. The car calculates that based on HVB voltage, temperature & other factors. As you drive the car estimates the change in ETE based on amps & volts going in/out of the HVB. This is not super accurate. The HVB needs to "rest" (car off, contacts disconnected) for about 30 minutes to reach a stable voltage to again accurately calculate ETE. This is why you may see your HVB range or HVB % drop when the car is parked. This is especially common after long EV drives where you use a significant chunk of the HVB, since the inaccuracy of the calculation is compounded over time.

 

My mother's car can only get 4.3kwh and it is also a 2013 and only has 15,000 miles.  She only drives the car for short trips a few times a week.  She keeps it in a nice garage all the time but its always plugged in.

There are a couple of main factors for capacity loss:

  • SOC level
  • HVB temperature
  • Depth of Discharge (DoD)
  • Cycling habits
  • Time (calendar degradation)

SOC Level

Higher charge levels result in more capacity loss. Li-ion cells don't like to be fully charged or fully discharged. A full charge in a Ford Energi vehicle is very close to the maximum cell voltage of 4.2. This is not great for the HVB. Unfortunately, there is no way to stop the charge process before it reaches 100%. Li-ion cells will last the longest if only charged to about 3.92 V. This is about 58% SOC. Discharge cycles and capacity as a function of charge voltage limit. Every 0.10V drop below 4.20V/cell doubles the cycle but holds less capacity. Raising the voltage above 4.20V/cell would shorten the life. Every 70mV drop in charge voltage lowers the usable capacity by 10%. Most chargers for mobile phones, laptops, tablets and digital cameras charge Li-ion to 4.20V/cell. This allows maximum capacity, because the consumer wants nothing less than optimal runtime. This is bad for an EV where longevity is more important. Charging to 4.2 V yields only 300-500 cycles before the HVB drops below 80% capacity. This is why so many Energi owners are seeing such rapid capacity loss.

 

HVB Temperature

Heat is the enemy! The Ford Energi vehicles don't include a liquid cooling system for the HVB. This means that the HVB is able to be quite hot during the summer. This was the main cause of the early Nissan Leaf issues. Anything above 25 C (77 F) is where you start to see accelerated degradation due to temperature. At 0 C (32 F) the HVB will last virtually forever without losing capacity.

 

Depth of Discharge

 A partial discharge reduces stress and prolongs battery life. Charging all the way up to 100% and then discharging all the way down to the level of hybrid mode each day is very stressful for the HVB. This equates roughly to discharging from 95% to 15%. That is an 80% DoD on a daily basis. At 80% DoD you'll only get a few hundred charge cycles before the capacity drops below 80% of the new capacity.

 

Cycling Habits

Elevated temperature and high currents also affect cycle life. When you demand a high power level the HVB voltage drops & current increases. Each cell is tasked with providing part of the required power. Weaker cells experience more voltage drop which means more amps are needed. This then stresses those cells even more, making them even weaker.

 

Time

The HVB will lose capacity over time. This is why it is important to keep the SOC as low as possible, since higher SOCs (higher voltages) lead to faster loss due to time. This is where Value Charge is useful. Delay the start of charging until as close to departure as possible to minimize the time spent at a high cell voltage level. This will slow down calendar degradation.

 

More information can be found at Battery University.

Larryh at the Fusion Energi forum has come up with some great information & charts regarding how the factors listed above have affected his car over time & calculating future degradation rates.


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#49 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:06 AM

Well said bear, thanks for the writeup!

 

-=>Raja.


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#50 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 06:50 AM

Again, this is information ford should have given us when we bought the car. It's too late now.

Or they should not be promoting their vehicles as getting 21 miles per charge and should limit how much the battery can charge and d├ęcharge in a time period.

Fraud pure and simple. Especially now they know there is a problem and they even have the gall to raise it to 22 miles.

When I bought the car I knew how far I had to drive to work and assumed it would be able to keep up with that, minus some degradation over time. Nobody told me I could only drive 70% of the way to work on battery and 70% of the way back. Nobody told me I had to open the backseat to see if the battery was too hot to charge. Nobody told me I could only charge once a day and only at night when it was the coolest. Nobody told me I couldn't go over 55mph on battery. Nobody told me I couldn't keep the car charged and ready to go when I needed it.

When I buy something I expect it to work as advertised. Especially something this expensive.


Edited by David Burnett, 21 September 2016 - 02:03 PM.

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#51 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:31 AM

Well David they said 21 miles per charge, and when you bought the car you could easily get 21 miles per charge driving 60mph on the highway.  If you slowed down you could get 35 miles per charge, much more than the original Ford estimate, but again its an estimate and a conservative one mind you, you would have had to really jack rabbit the car and drive like an animal to get less the 20 miles on the HVB.

 

But they can't guarantee 21 miles all day every day.  Its like your laptop, your cell phone, etc.   Over time the battery will degrade and will get less and less run time.  You can make it worse quicker by leaving your laptop plugged in all the time so the battery is always at 100%, then only use the battery when you have to take the laptop and go.  You could kill your cell phone battery quicker by plugging it in to recharge all the time any moment you have that opportunity.  These sort of things are "known" battery life facts, all over the internet, articles about them, not even the car but for your cell phone, laptop, etc.

 

What wasn't mentioned above also is that the battery does not have unlimited cycles, that number is finite.  In your case you went through alot of cycles, driving to work maybe 250 times a year, so you probably cycled the battery around 400 times per year.  No one knows exactly how many cycles you can get out of a battery, that varies based on all the other stuff mentioned, and its not a hard number like at 999 cycles it works and at 1000 it breaks.  Its just capacity loss over time the more cycles the more loss.  I think in the battery university thing they judge cycles based on 30% capacity loss, there is a table there, and you can get to that loss number within 500 cycles or 4000 cycles depending on the Depth of Discharge.  However, you also have to value that if you are only discharging the pack 10% to get 4000 cycles, then if you discharge it 100% at 400 cycles its practically the same life, since 10% gives you 3 miles and 100% gives you 30 miles and both yield 12000 miles over the life of the pack.   There is a slight variation, its not exactly 1:1, so you will be better off somewhere in between 10 and 100%.

 

Regardless I use what I need when I need it, but I also use 100% when I go on trips or long distance EV trips.  In other words if I'm going to need all 100%, then I charge to 100%.  But if I'm not, then I don't.  Can't always happen that way, but I try to do it that way.

 

Anyway, maybe you can get your battery replaced, along with Rich and all the other folks, and if that happens I'd like to get mine replaced under warranty as well, but maybe not now maybe when I get close to 100K miles so my next 100K will be good also.  I'll wait to see what happens with all you guys, there is alot out there, just looking through this thread at least 1/2 a dozen.  Maybe we should make a new thread "HVB Age and Capacity remaining" for all to chime in on a list, how many miles, EV miles, years and KWH left on the battery.

 

-=>Raja.



#52 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 07:56 AM

I know there are a finite number of cycles, and I know there is normal degradation, but ford should have known that when they made the 100,000 mile warranty.

I know, it's awesome when i first got the car I could get 32 miles per charge. My problem is I only have 32,000 miles and I'm already getting 14 miles per charge, 18 max if I drive 25mph. I'm assuming the degradation will continue and eventually I will get less than 10 miles per charge.

If I continue to drive as I have in the past will my battery continue to degrade?

Edited by David Burnett, 21 September 2016 - 08:10 AM.

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#53 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:16 AM

At this point David I would say your best bet might be to just continue what you're doing and kill the battery even more so that perhaps the excessive degradation would allow you to get it exchanged under warranty.  If you get a new one then I would be more careful with it to make it last as long as possible knowing what you know now.

 

How many KWH are you getting out of the battery now, I think you said 4.0 kwh somewhere?  If 5.5 can yield 30 miles, then 4/5.5x30 should be 22 miles?  14 miles would be only 2.6kwh, no?

 

Here is a question:

 

If you charge the battery to 100%, reset the trip meter.  Drive on the country roads say 40mph or less.

 

At 1.1kwh used out of the battery (look at trip meter), how much % is left in the battery on the MFT screen.

At 2.2 kwh, check and note battery %.

Repeat at 3.3 and 4.4 if you can get there, but you probably can't.

 

Would be interesting to see what you're getting. 

 

-=>Raja.



#54 OFFLINE   bro1999

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:20 AM

Again, this is information ford should have given us when we bought the car. It's too late now.

Or they should not be promoting their vehicles as getting 21 miles per charge and should limit how much the battery can charge and d├ęcharge in a time period.

Fraud pure and simple. Especially now they now there is a problem and they even have the gall to raise it to 22 miles.

When I bought the car I knew how far I had to drive to work and assumed it would be able to keep up with that, minus some degradation over time. Nobody told me I could only drive 70% of the way to work on battery and 70% of the way back. Nobody told me I had to open the backseat to see if the battery was too hot to charge. Nobody told me I could only charge once a day and only at night when it was the coolest. Nobody told me I couldn't go over 55mph on battery. Nobody told me I couldn't keep the car charged and ready to go when I needed it.

When I buy something I expect it to work as advertised. Especially something this expensive.

 

Well, they did promote a 21 mile EV range....until they got caught fudging the numbers and had to downgrade it to 19.

 

I think it is pretty ridiculous that owners are forced to "baby" their HV battery in order to slow/prevent battery degradation. Its not like these people are driving 100 MPH purposefully punishing their cars, but having to restrict usage even driving the speed limit on the highway? Seriously? I leased a '13 C-Max Energi for 2 years, and over the course of 17k miles (no babying of any kind, just regular driving and charging), I saw my battery capacity reduced by about .3-.4 kWh, which was one factor in me turning it in.

 

Ford not setting precise parameters or at least making them known to the public, like GM did with the Volt and Nissan eventually...after getting sued, did with the Leaf, for battery warranty replacement is just wrong, IMO.


Edited by bro1999, 21 September 2016 - 08:20 AM.

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#55 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:56 AM

When I started this process a month ago I was getting 3.9-4.2. I'm now getting 3.7 out of the battery.

#56 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 09:18 AM

OK so drive it at 40mph and log for me the kwh out of the battery, maybe every 0.5 might make some sense for more entries.  Technically speaking it should be able to go about 20 miles on 3.7kwh.  I just checked my log I got a 3.8kwh trip for 20.3 miles 177 MPGe. (about 5.5 miles per KWH)

 

-=>Raja.



#57 OFFLINE   David Burnett

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:06 PM

I will have some time on Friday I will try and find a place where I can do that and report back.



#58 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 02:25 PM

How many miles per kwh is very dependant on driving conditions, speed, terrain, how heavy your foot is on pedal/brake, air temp.....  That's why Ford can claim it's just an estimate, and they don't market the car to a specified range.  I do see on their website they say 19 mile all-electric range.  (I guess for me that's starting at the top of the mountain :) )But the kwh available, either the plug in portion as shown on the trip log or total HVB capacity at 100% SOC from PID, should be less less driver/driving dependant.  They DO market the car and register with the EPA that it has a 7.6 kwh PHEV battery.  At least it does out the factory door ......



#59 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:41 AM

Fraud pure and simple.

No, the Owner's Manual & Warranty Guide clearly state that HVB capacity loss over time is normal and is not covered under warranty. All these documents are available online for you to read before you buy. Ford did not hide this information. There is no fraud.

 

I know there are a finite number of cycles, and I know there is normal degradation, but ford should have known that when they made the 100,000 mile warranty.

I know, it's awesome when i first got the car I could get 32 miles per charge. My problem is I only have 32,000 miles and I'm already getting 14 miles per charge, 18 max if I drive 25mph. I'm assuming the degradation will continue and eventually I will get less than 10 miles per charge.

If I continue to drive as I have in the past will my battery continue to degrade?

Ford does know about the cycles, better than any of us here. They also know that they wrote their warranty in a way that they will not have to pay out because they say that capacity loss is normal. Your best bet to get an HVB replacement is to make the biggest fuss possible about it to Ford and keep pushing the dealer. If you have data from when the car was new to compare with the amount of energy available for discharge then show that. The important thing is not to talk about miles of range. Miles of range is a worthless number. It varies based on many factors. The number that does not vary is the kWh you are able to discharge from a fully charged HVB as reported by the trip meter. This number can also be found in the MyFord Mobile trip log for trips where you started with a full charge and fully discharged the HVB during the trip. Comparing this number now with what it was when the car is new is the evidence to present to the dealer for them to present to Ford. That is indisputable evidence of capacity loss. Once you present your evidence, it is up to Ford to decide if they will replace your HVB. Without evidence, claims about less miles of range don't mean anything...



#60 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:57 AM

Ford covered their ass by never defining what normal capacity loss is. 

 


Ford does know about the cycles, better than any of us here. They also know that they wrote their warranty in a way that they will not have to pay out because they say that capacity loss is normal.


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