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Energi HV Battery Replaced Under Warranty


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225 replies to this topic

#181 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 10:25 AM

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#182 OFFLINE   bsheaffer

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 07:43 PM

Let's just step aside for a minute and say that Ford decides to replace all HVBs that drop to 4kwh capacity or less (say a 30% loss) within an 8 year warranty period.  Don't you think that most likely all of them will need to be replaced for free under warranty?  

 

Actually, no, I don't. 

 

If you believe the heat damage is a real thing (which, as you might guess, I do), Ford could easily mine the MyFordMobile data and figure out who had "sudden" capacity loss during summer. They do collect kwhr usage. They might even collect air and/or battery temp in the database, which would make things easier. From there, they could replace the batteries or offer discounts based on capacity loss due to insufficient battery cooling. I drove my last car for 17 years, I'd use a discount if I could keep this one running close to that.

 

That said, short of abject failure, I don't expect they'll replace any batteries via warranty. Frankly, I doubt they're even maintaining more than 90 days of history in their database. If they DO decide to do a 30% loss replacement offer, they'll say I don't qualify because I didn't bring my capacity issue to them earlier - at least, not that they measured :wink: 

 

P.S. I didn't really do any homework on this, but my memory of the capacity loss is there were 2 general levels: some cars dropped to ~5.0-5.3; others dropped to ~4.0-4.3. Continuing my hypotheticals, the 5s could be normal use/age loss; the 4s could be heat damage. Just a guess, like most everything I've said here.



#183 OFFLINE   radiobrown

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Posted 19 September 2017 - 09:31 AM

so still new at all of this stuff here and looking for a car at this moment... if the car is fully charged and I take out for a test drive in EV mode what should I look for in discharge amount?
I have seen 5.5 is EV amount allotted and another 1.1 or so is reserved for hybrid mode and the rest is slotted for never used amount for a total of about 8 something KV.

 

I looked at fussion that had 35 miles est ev range but didn't drive it as I was more interested in the Cmax but have yet to find one to drive



#184 OFFLINE   mipmapped

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 11:03 AM

A follow up... I'm now down to 4.2KWh on the new battery. 93K miles, 36K of which on this battery.

Edited by mipmapped, 22 October 2017 - 11:03 AM.


#185 ONLINE   ptjones

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 05:04 PM

Are you running EV only?

 

Paul



#186 OFFLINE   William Anzueto

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:29 AM

2014 Energi with 84K Miles. took 4 hours to charge on 110(instead of 6.5hr ) Down in the 4.0-4.2KWh,   I dropped it off because I noticed the engine kept coming on and the screen showed it was due to batt temp.  A week later, my dealer called and said I was getting a new battery, they set me up with a rental and said it would be 6-8 weeks.  

 

Next day they called me back to say Ford had declined it and said it was just hot in florida. Dealer expected me to pay for diagnostic and rental ($500+) I was not happy to hear this and didn't pay it. They did give me my car back. I escalated through Ford customer service, they took my car back for 2 weeks (I got a rental again).  Then returned it saying there was no issue they could find running tests that ford gave them.  Service manager even drove it home a couple times 30 miles each way.

 

I had the check engine light come on the day after I got the car.  I was so excited but it turned out to be something completely different but covered under ESP warranty(Vapor Canister Vent Sensor).  Dealer charged the rental to that warranty item and sent me on my way.

 

Wife says to take it to a different dealer but from reading this thread it sounds like the Dealer isn't the issue.   My calls to ford just got redirected back to my local dealership.

 

I would have kept this Energi past 100K miles with a new battery but since that's not happening and I just paid it off a couple months ago.  It's time to pass it on or trade it in.

 

Car's value on trade in is $8K and a new battery is $8K so the idea of me putting in a new battery out of my pocket seems like a waste.  Best to just part ways.

 

I bet if I was at 100,001 miles with this issue, Ford would have no problem saying it's a battery problem and selling me one.  That's essentially what this feels like.



#187 ONLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:26 AM

William Anzueto do you know what temp your battery was at when you had the problem? I would be helpful what a high temp was.  Do you get a different value when the HVB is cool?

 

Paul



#188 OFFLINE   William Anzueto

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 08:18 AM

William Anzueto do you know what temp your battery was at when you had the problem? I would be helpful what a high temp was.  Do you get a different value when the HVB is cool?

 

Paul

I don't have the details of the battery temperature.  I did make a video for the service manager to send to Ford.

My commute is very boring.  Cruise control gets set to 75mph for about 45 mins.  Florida is flat.  Car just goes back and forth showing Batt temp error and normal operations.

https://youtu.be/BQv1wnvobT4



#189 ONLINE   ptjones

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 09:25 AM

What area of FL do you live in?  I get down that way quite often from GA.  You could PM me.

 

Paul


Edited by ptjones, 24 October 2017 - 09:25 AM.


#190 OFFLINE   William Anzueto

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:11 AM

What area of FL do you live in?  I get down that way quite often from GA.  You could PM me.

 

Paul

I live in Stuart and work in Boca Raton.  The HOV lane is pretty useless for my commute.  Better be going 80 mph+ to ride in that lane .  Fun stuff!


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#191 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:11 PM

Did ford really quote $8K as the battery replacement cost?  Also, are you completely out of warranty - I thought the electronic/hybrid type technology had a more extended warranty ....Battery temperature alarms on other equipment that I normally work with indicate that a battery is preparing to fail and usually happens 3-5 years of continuous operation - but those aren't cars, certainly not anything related to Ford.  I can understand Ford refusing to replace degraded batteries, but I would think you'd have a stronger case with a failing battery.


Edited by marlowefamily, 24 October 2017 - 12:17 PM.


#192 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 03:41 PM

Never ever drive at 75 mph in Auto mode on the battery, with the AC running to boot...ever.

Do you realize how hard that is on the HVB?? I’m not one bit surprised the battery capacity is lost, you’re puffing your packs by draining them under heavy load.

Also mipmapped with the new battery might have done the same thing and lost capacity not sure maybe he can comment on that...

-=>Raja.

#193 OFFLINE   William Anzueto

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

Never ever drive at 75 mph in Auto mode on the battery, with the AC running to boot...ever.

Do you realize how hard that is on the HVB?? I’m not one bit surprised the battery capacity is lost, you’re puffing your packs by draining them under heavy load.

Also mipmapped with the new battery might have done the same thing and lost capacity not sure maybe he can comment on that...

-=>Raja.

 

 

Did ford really quote $8K as the battery replacement cost?  Also, are you completely out of warranty - I thought the electronic/hybrid type technology had a more extended warranty ....Battery temperature alarms on other equipment that I normally work with indicate that a battery is preparing to fail and usually happens 3-5 years of continuous operation - but those aren't cars, certainly not anything related to Ford.  I can understand Ford refusing to replace degraded batteries, but I would think you'd have a stronger case with a failing battery.

 

 

Yes. I am still under warranty and the Ford ESP warranty, too. I'm at 85K of the 100K warranty.  Thats why I'm selling it.  or getting ready to trade in.  Dealer told me it was an $8K battery pack they special ordered for me.  Since Ford declined the Warranty they were now going to be stuck with it.  They also said they were stuck with the cost of the diagnostics and car rental, too.   They waived the entire thing because of the experience I had of being told approved, given a rental car and then having to come back the next day to return the car.    I'm surprised the dealer didn't do more to push this issue with Ford.  They took the car back for another two weeks and I thought it was a done deal but they were still trying to troubleshoot.  

 

75mph+, AC running and its in the 80F+ temps in the morning.  I've been driving the car that way since day 1.  Usually in EV Later mode but that doesn't matter with my early commute since there is no slow city section.  all highway driving.   Yes, I'm aware of battery heating up and puffing.  I fly RC Racing Drones and those things catch on fire when pushed hard.  It's kinda scary to know that's what I have in my trunk.

 

I don't do it on purpose.  That's just my climate and commute.  This is one of those design things had they made the battery shut off at 55 mph it would have saved me from myself :)


Edited by William Anzueto, 25 October 2017 - 09:22 AM.


#194 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:43 AM

75mph+, AC running and its in the 80F+ temps in the morning.  I've been driving the car that way since day 1.  Usually in EV Later mode but that doesn't matter with my early commute since there is no slow city section.  all highway driving.   Yes, I'm aware of battery heating up and puffing.  I fly RC Racing Drones and those things catch on fire when pushed hard.  It's kinda scary to know that's what I have in my trunk.

 

 

I took a long highway trip this summer from Texas to Colorado and back with continuous speeds of 75-80mph each way in hybrid mode and no charging.   With afternoon temps peaking around 105f during these drives in Texas and the a/c cranked, battery temps peaked at 103f (scanguage II) well below the 113f cut-off threshold.  FWIW



#195 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

108 seems to be a bad temp for the power steering.  Mine biffed at 108.   Read that the high temps on the CVT fluid cause some breakdown issues too.    What are you gonna do when you gotta drive.



#196 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 10:50 AM

My God Bill, you're an RC pilot you should know better.  I am too for many years since 1990 actually.  Speed used to be limited to 62mph in EV mode but Ford removed that limit and/or increased it to 85mph for marketing purposes.

 

Oh well what's done is done now.  You need a new battery and/or a new car.

 

Doug, it would make sense that the HVB temp should gravitate towards the OAT even if you don't use it.  Good idea when its that hot to just drive hybrid mode,  :thumbsup:

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 25 October 2017 - 11:01 AM.


#197 OFFLINE   mipmapped

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:53 AM

Never ever drive at 75 mph in Auto mode on the battery, with the AC running to boot...ever.

Do you realize how hard that is on the HVB?? I’m not one bit surprised the battery capacity is lost, you’re puffing your packs by draining them under heavy load.

Also mipmapped with the new battery might have done the same thing and lost capacity not sure maybe he can comment on that...

-=>Raja.

I drive my car, my car doesn't drive me. It gets hot here and the commute is often fast freeway. The car should be design to take that. It obviously wasn't.

 

Alan


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#198 OFFLINE   Jonathan Ezor

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 09:48 AM

Chiming in with 7 months left on my 3-year lease. Just passed 50k miles (did a lot of distance driving in traffic for first two years, but have been able to cut sharply back in the last few months due to work location alterations). Just started to notice a reduction in battery capacity and resulting range; only about a 10% drop so far, though. Given the above discussion, though, I am beginning to seriously rethink my original plan of buying out the lease this coming June. I love MAXimum Ride, but I particularly love driving on pure electric power, and if that experience is going to diminish rapidly, it may be better to pay the mileage overage, turn the car back in and either get a new one or a pure electric like the Chevy Bolt. Since, even when I drive the 67 miles to my office, I can charge at both ends of the trip, the Bolt might actually be practical. (Complicating factor: we're also almost certainly going to lease a Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid PHEV minivan in the spring for my wife, so we'll still have one PHEV with unlimited range then even if I turn in my C-MAX.)

Thoughts? {Jonathan}



#199 OFFLINE   Jonathan Ezor

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:35 AM

The most definitive test is to read the PID BAT_TO_EMPTY_ESTIM when the car is at 100% charge as shown on the touchscreen.  That reads the absolute total capacity of the HVB battery, has nothing to do with how you drive, etc., that dramatically affects estimated miles on the screen.  Any Ford dealer can do this is 5 minutes once the car is charged (just charge it full and drive in on EV_LATER).  Or like I did you can get a bluetooth OBD2 reader (around $15) and an Android phone app like TorquePro or FORSCAN and read it yourself.  A new/good battery should read over 7 kwh.  Mine is 5.3 at 3 years, 31,000 miles.

 

I just checked this and mine is at about 6.3 kwh or so when fully charged. 2 1/2 years; 50k miles. Seems like I was right that it has lost capacity, but not as badly as have some. *sigh* {Jonathan}



#200 OFFLINE   marlowefamily

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 11:44 AM

So, EV buyers are stuck between cars with huge batteries that have better cooling and last long but which have exorbitant replacement costs and other cars with small batteries w/o good cooling that are significantly cheaper, but still objectively too costly to replace?

 

If Ford could get the battery replacement costs down to <$3K every 5 years, I wouldn't have a problem given how little maintenance is required for the rest of the car.   At $8K per battery replacement every 3-4 years, the economics clearly do not work.

 

My CMax is still new, and San Diego has generally rather tolerable weather, but we do have very hot weeks where temps spike to 100+...and I'm worried that driving on those days could be damaging to the battery.  I'm switching to ev later whenever it is hot or I'm pushing the engine, but even in EV Later....the system will run in EV mode whenever it wants. 


Edited by marlowefamily, 26 October 2017 - 11:45 AM.









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