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Snow tire observations


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14 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   bodiesel

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Posted 15 March 2016 - 07:09 PM

After the first year of driving the 2013 in the snow( I bought her used),  I decided to get snow tires for "Max" this year.  Next winter my oldest will be of driving age and "Max" is not safe ( in my opinion) to drive with the OEM tires in the snow.  So I ordered a pair of OEM wheels through my local salvage yard to which I added Blizzak snow tires.  What a difference they made.  Despite the tire co. recommendation, I used the snow tires only on the front wheels (common sense prevails).   Just thought I'd share.  The snow tires are off now, they wear out quickly on warm roads.









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#2 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:12 AM

Just be aware that the reason you're supposed to use snow tires at all 4 corners is because front wheel drive vehicles don't oversteer gradually, they will SNAP oversteer.  Car and Driver did an article on it some years back.  Even those guys who love to oversteer cars said that it took MANY loops around the skidpad before (on that controlled surface) they could finally learn when the car would snap and start to catch it.

 

I've done what you've done and experienced firsthand that snap oversteer.  I was driving my CRX down the semi slushy highway around 60mph and then WOOSH I was suddenly spinning through the median.  Amazingly I didn't hit anything and thanks to those better front tires I was able to drive back out of the median, but I would HIGHLY recommend you put the better tires on the rear(meaning you're going to need to get another couple snow tires to still be able to make it in the snow).  Otherwise you're trusting that you and your son are going to never accidentally overdrive the conditions(which you won't know since the front tires will be pulling through so easily).

 

I'm sure the VSC will certainly help out in that situation, but I doubt even it would be able to catch a snap oversteer situation like that...


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#3 OFFLINE   Jonathan Ezor

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:31 AM

Adding my own observations: I put new Michelin Ice-X (recommended by TireRack) on my factory rims at the beginning of December, and put the factory tires back on last week. According to my Trip 2 record, during the time with the Ice-X tires, I drove 56:04:25, doing 5061.7 miles, at 53.8 MPG, with 705.2 miles EV and 521 kWh. I'm not sure whether this is all accurate, given that if the time was hours, minutes and seconds driving, it suggests I averaged ~90.375 miles/hour, which is clearly not true. (It occurs to me that if it's measuring time the engine or power system is in operation, it may include remote starts and other non-rolling time, so *whew!*) Kept the tire pressure at ~40 psi. Car drove well in the few major snowstorms we had, while my sister reported her Prius V (on factory low-rolling-resistance tires) was unusable for lack of traction. {Jonathan}



#4 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:37 AM

Yep, both my Prius and the C-Max have a number of just about unusable days without snow tires.  I could make it around town barely but I can't make it up the hill that I live on.  Our AWD Sienna gets around but without the snow tires it still takes forever to come to a stop like when a deer jumps out in front of you.

 

I highly recommend anyone who lives in an area with a decent amount of snow days to use snow tires no matter what vehicle you have.  They are generally about the same price as your deductible!



#5 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:47 AM

I drove 56:04:25, doing 5061.7 miles, at 53.8 MPG, with 705.2 miles EV and 521 kWh.

 

John, trip meters on the Cmax do roll over, not sure about newer models but on mine EV miles rolls over at 999.9 miles.  In your case it doesn't seem possible that you only got 705 EV miles with 5600 miles driven, might be more like 1705 or maybe even 2705 EV miles.

 

Just FYI, next time you are using the trip meter when you get close to 999 EV watch it and see what happens.  Mine also rolls over at 9999 regular miles so if I use the trip meter for a year and drive 18k miles it only shows 8k miles.

 

-=>Raja.



#6 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:48 AM

I had a similar experience as Levi with an old Civic hatchback.  I was turning left across a divided road, and ended up doing a 180, facing oncoming traffic.  I didn't get hit either, and was able to stop, correct, and get back on track.  But since that experience, I have always used snow tires in sets of 4.

 

I have 4 tires on my CMax right now.  They have pulled me through some pretty bad conditions this winter - in one case there was a 13-car pileup on the Thruway, and many more cars in the ditch.  The CMax is well balanced and with snow tires, did very well.

 

Regarding costs, remember that all those miles driven with snow tires are miles NOT driven on your fair weather tires.  In the end, the cost of the snow tires is marginal because you can still get X,000 miles out of each set of tires.  For example, if you get 50,000 miles from a set of tires, then you should get roughly 100,000 from your two sets of snows / 3-seasons (commonly incorrectly referred to as "all seasons").


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#7 OFFLINE   Jonathan Ezor

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:05 AM

John, trip meters on the Cmax do roll over, not sure about newer models but on mine EV miles rolls over at 999.9 miles.  In your case it doesn't seem possible that you only got 705 EV miles with 5600 miles driven, might be more like 1705 or maybe even 2705 EV miles.

 

Just FYI, next time you are using the trip meter when you get close to 999 EV watch it and see what happens.  Mine also rolls over at 9999 regular miles so if I use the trip meter for a year and drive 18k miles it only shows 8k miles.

 

-=>Raja.

Raja,

 

I figured that about the EV miles; just reporting for completion. My bigger question is the elapsed time and total miles driven, and on what the elapsed time is calculated, since it seems to suggest I drove a lot faster than I did. {Jonathan}



#8 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 09:06 AM

Time rolls over also every 100 hours.  So in reality it means:

 

"156:04:25, doing 5061.7 miles, at 53.8 MPG,"

 

So 5061.7/156.07361 = 32.43 miles per hour, much more reasonable and most likely correct as 256 hours would mean 19.77 mph which is most likely too slow unless you're in heavy traffic every day.

 

"with 705.2 miles EV and 521 kWh."

 

Its definitely more than 705 miles, and even more than 1705 miles as 521kwh would mean at least 4 miles per kwh or 2084 miles, plus the engine charges the battery and creates EV miles, so about 3000 miles are engine related, of which at least 25% would be EV, so the most logical conclusion would be at least 2705 miles EV.

 

So really comes down to this:

 

156:04:25, doing 5061.7 miles, at 53.8 MPG, with 2705.2 miles EV and 521 kWh as my best guess not knowing how you drove it with only the 53.8mpg as a clue.  If you were driving at speeds of less than 50mph most of the time, it is possible that EV miles are in fact 3705, but only you would know that as I wasn't there the whole time you did this.

 

Hope that helps,

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 16 March 2016 - 09:48 AM.

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#9 OFFLINE   Jonathan Ezor

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 10:04 AM

<snip>

 

So really comes down to this:

 

156:04:25, doing 5061.7 miles, at 53.8 MPG, with 2705.2 miles EV and 521 kWh as my best guess not knowing how you drove it with only the 53.8mpg as a clue.  If you were driving at speeds of less than 50mph most of the time, it is possible that EV miles are in fact 3705, but only you would know that as I wasn't there the whole time you did this.

 

Hope that helps,

 

-=>Raja.

 

What he said. :) {Jonathan}



#10 OFFLINE   bodiesel

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 05:56 PM

Just be aware that the reason you're supposed to use snow tires at all 4 corners is because front wheel drive vehicles don't oversteer gradually, they will SNAP oversteer.  Car and Driver did an article on it some years back.  Even those guys who love to oversteer cars said that it took MANY loops around the skidpad before (on that controlled surface) they could finally learn when the car would snap and start to catch it.

Good tip on the SNAP.  I'll check into to it.   Definitely don't want to put precious cargo in harm's way.



#11 OFFLINE   ScottB

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 06:47 PM

I drove a Ford Probe for a winter season with snows on the front only. I didn't find it that dangerous, but I did get it to snap oversteer in a parking lot on purpose. It was a lot better with 4 snows and I completely agree it is much safer. It may vary a lot by car and tire, but it wasn't the "complete disaster" I was told it was going to be. The real issue is in an emergency situation is it going to happen. If you don't get in that situation, no problem.

 

If it was my son, I would put on 4 snows. For me personally, I tried it and then went with 4 the next year. I had two worn fronts and two decent rear tires and wanted to use them up before gettting 4 new ones.



#12 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 10:52 PM

I drove FWD in the snow for years in Vermont, NH and MA.  You just point the front tires where you want to go and the rest of the car follows.  If you want to oversteer for fun you can leave a little power in and the wheels will slip some, when you're ready to snap over you let go of the gas and traction is regained and the car will pop in that direction.

 

Its not hard to learn to drive it, do a few practice runs in a parking lot.  I never hit anything all the years driving though all the snow storms that fell.  I went no matter what, rain, snow or shine in my younger days, I never feared snow.  If you want to make a quick U turn you oversteer to one side and push the emergency brake.  Rear tires lock up and you slide the tail in front of the nose, instant U turn.  You learn to release the brake at the right moment and you power through the end to pull the car in the direction you want to go.  Fun stuff!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 24 November 2018 - 10:54 PM.


#13 OFFLINE   ScottB

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:35 PM

I have almost finished fitting my CMax out for the winter ski season. I have roof racks now and a ski cargo box. I went with Thule square bar racks. The ski box was given to me and is an older Barecrafter model. It is good sized and fits 6 skis. I bought 4 Nokian Nordman 5 snows and some 16" steel wheels to mount them on. Boy are they heavy. I downsized -1 to 215 x 60 x 16" wheels. Getting them mounted on Monday.

 

I did a trip this week and got 36 mpg on the ski trip, going 70 mph with 3 people and 6 skis. A good load. I typically have gotten in the low 40's with just me and no box or roof rack. Probably lost 4-5 mpg due to the box. Next trip I will limit my speed to 65 and see how I do on mpg.

 

As an aside, two of us are over 6 feet, and we had 4 ski bags for luggage in the car. There was plenty of room and all were comfortable. I could probably take 4 people without too much trouble. Really impressed with how much passenger space and comfort there is in this car. All the bags fit on top of the battery in the back. I took out the roll out cover bar.


Edited by ScottB, 02 December 2018 - 03:41 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   cr08

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:19 PM

That's about what I've gotten with mine on our road trips. We've made a cross country road trip in May from Ohio to California and back. 3 people, a full hatch, and a hitch mounted cargo box for luggage. Non-LRR tires and minimum 70mph. Usually see about 35-36mpg average over the entire trip and that's with the ICE running 98-99% of the time. Definitely not Prius level efficiency but seems to beat out most ICE vehicles I've seen with this level of utility. Even my cousin's brand new Crosstrek is only rated for up to 33 highway.


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#15 OFFLINE   ScottB

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Posted 04 December 2018 - 09:08 AM

Attached File  IMG_20181204_083012838.jpg   106.05KB   0 downloadsI have my 2017 CMAX Titanium fully outfitted for winter skiing trips. Seems like everything is good. No real noise from racks and box, tires are a little louder, but not bad. Some loss of mpg on highway  5-6 mpg, but it is what it is.  Here is my list of details:

 

racks:  Thule square bars

Box:  Barecrafter ski box, this was a freebee, otherwise I would have gotten a newer, lower profile ski box.  It does not hit the antenna, I have it to one side. Fits 6 skis and poles, very useful.

Tires:   16" x 215 x 60 on new steel wheels. Nokian Nordman 5 tires. Good price of $85 ea from simple tire and $55 ea for the wheels.

 

 










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