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And now I have MPGe


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42 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 07:37 AM

I'm still amazed at the number of nuances in so many different way that this car has.  And coming from me, that's impressive.  Though I'm not saying it's necessarily positive...

 

Anyway I decided to go ahead an "update" my Sync which read 4.3 on the screen and 3.6.2 on Ford to the 3.8 found on the Fusion forum.

 

That process went smoothly enough but WOW is that slow...  It was at LEAST half an hour. I think maybe closer to 45 minutes to complete with all of the various reboots and phases of updates.

 

So far the only changes I noticed were having to re-apply a few settings and that it didn't mute the stereo when reading a text message(downgrade).  My VHR still won't run saying it needs 200 miles.

 

However, while I was waiting for Sync I went through the left screen settings once again and I guess somehow I accidentally set remote start to full defrost(which explains why the rear defroster was on the other day). 

AND noticed one setting somewhere in there that was set to only report gas mileage...

 

Pretty sure I've seen MPGe on some screens, but I did kinda think I noticed it more last night/this morning...

 

Sure enough looking at MFM yesterday's trip to work read 999MPG.  Today's trip reads 165MPGe.

 

Interesting stuff.  Made my 13.7 mile trip to work on 2.7KWH instead of the usual 3KWH this morning.  Of course this is with the cruise set to 45MPH for most of the trip on a 55MPH road.  So occasionally I can get away with this.  Otherwise, more likely I see someone coming up behind me and I set the cruise to 55MPH at some point during the trip.

 

 

Oh, I also decided to try my ODB adapter and Torque and/or Forscan last night.  That revealed 2 things.  

1) The port above the brake pedal does indeed seem to be blocked by a bracket.

 

2) The port behind the door would be less preferable since I'd have to leave the door open to use it and more importantly my port seems to be barely attached to the surrounding plastic.  Pushing on it enough to attach the adapter shoves it through.  I was able to get it slightly attached.  Will have to try later to see if I can reach an arm up to hold it from the other side.

Need to play with Forscan to figure it out.  I got as far as showing my car info.  Was looking to see what the oil monitor shows but ran out of time before getting any info to show(not that I knew where to look really).









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#2 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 04 February 2016 - 09:21 AM

Glad to see that you have a car with the MPGe display option. That to me is a better milage reference that MPG that is the only choice in cars built after the mid summer of 2013. I also enjoy the lifetime summery screen that is displayed on shutdown. The lifetime display was removed at the same time MPGe was removed. 

 

That Sync update duration sounds about normal. Yes it take awhile but it is not something that needs to be done very often. It would actually surprise me if there is ever another update. Car companies would rather sell new cars than update the existing fleet.

 

Learning the  nuances of this car became a hobby for me. 

 

Tom


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#3 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:28 AM

 

Oh, I also decided to try my ODB adapter and Torque and/or Forscan last night.  That revealed 2 things.  

1) The port above the brake pedal does indeed seem to be blocked by a bracket.

 

Depending on the OBD adapter. I have this one, it fits fine.

http://www.amazon.co...duct/B00AAOOQJC



#4 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 05 February 2016 - 04:40 AM

H

 

Depending on the OBD adapter. I have this one, it fits fine.

http://www.amazon.co...duct/B00AAOOQJC

Hmm, that one is a bit smaller than mine, but not much.  Though I did try it again last night while looking and it looks like mine will slide on enough to work but not ideal.

 

Thanks!



#5 OFFLINE   pippin65

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 05:33 PM

So why is displaying mpg e better? I have just turned it on on my 2013 and it feels kind of foreign to me. Anyone willing to fill me in on features/ benefits. Thx

#6 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 06:30 PM

Here is my reasoning for MPG vs MPGe.

 

If you use the engine at any time during your trip, set the display to gas only (MPG) so that the system will report an MPG number for the trip in the trip summary at the end as well as MFM.

 

If you drive 100% electric do not use MPG set the display to gas and electric and get the MPGe report.  MPG on a 100% electric trip will report 999.9 mpg which is not a useful number.

 

My reason to use MPGe when all electric is that it gives you feedback on how you did on your drive.  The higher the MPGe, the better you've driven, and the further you'll go in electric mode.  Soon you'll learn that if you don't get 160 mpge or better on a particular routine trip you won't make it 100% electric.  You'll understand more the effects of cold weather or accessories or even night driving vs day due to MPGe consumption.

 

Some people argue they want to use MPGe all the time so as to factor in some sort of electric cost, but electric cost is variable could be free, someone in FL could be paying 8.5 cents a kwh, and someone in the NE could be paying 17 cents a kwh.  I choose to use it only as a gage of how well I'm driving in EV mode.  In gas and EV mix, I prefer to use MPG (gas only in settings) as all my electric is free anyways no matter where I get it (at home or on the road) and my net effective MPG figure is accurate in MPG not in MPGe.  In other words if I drive 60 miles EV and gas combined and burn a 1/2 gallon of fuel and the HVB battery, then my net MPG number is 120.  This is because all EV miles are "free miles" and every time I stop for dinner and recharge my car on a trip for example, the next 20 to 30 miles are free and they just pad the overall trip mile total.

 

Hope that makes sense from my perspective, other people's thoughts may vary.   Let me just add one more example as to why I think the way I do and not use MPGe except for 100% ev trips:

 

I drive from here to FL.  I stop along the way in MD to have lunch and recharge my car, in NC to have dinner and recharge my car, and in a hotel in SC and recharge my car overnight with the stock charger.  Then the next day I stop for lunch in southern GA or northern FL and recharge the car before arriving to Sanford for example and plugging my car in the hotel overnight to recharge back up.  

 

Now I'm in FL I switch the setthings to Gas and Electric from Gas only (MPGe vs MPG).  I spend 2 weeks in FL and I drive 100% electric, charging overnight at the hotel and at some other location during the day to get around.   2 weeks driving for free no gas involved.  Eventually the trip is over and I leave FL and head back home.  Same thing stop on the way, recharge while I eat on 240v chargers and recharge overnight on my stock charger at the hotel I stay at.

 

At the end of the day when I get home, I check my trip 1 log and see that I burned, for example, 45 gallons and trip meter logged 3000 miles, 2600 miles there and back, and 400 miles EV while there.   My net MPG number is 66.7 mpg, if I had used MPGe all the time instead, it would have reported some lower number in the 50's, say around 57mpge (just a guess).  But in reality I got 66.7 mpg, because I paid for 45 gallons of fuel to make this trip and that's it.  This is where MPGe goes wrong for me, doesn't make any sense just like MPG does in EV only, 999.9 doesn't make any sense either hence why I chose to use MPG and MPGe as described above.

 

Note that above example is just for illustration only, those are not actual figures if you want actual figures from my FL trip back in December check my posts about the trip stats.  I actually remember that at the point of starting the drive back from FL my trip MPG peaked as high as 76 due to 100% EV driving in FL before starting the decent downwards with fuel burn back to MA.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 16 April 2016 - 06:49 PM.


#7 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 04:57 AM

So why is displaying mpg e better? I have just turned it on on my 2013 and it feels kind of foreign to me. Anyone willing to fill me in on features/ benefits. Thx

For my purposes simply put it tells me energy used/efficiency used in a simple format.

 

If you leave it in mpg mode it seems considerably more difficult to figure out energy used.  It will tell you how much gas mileage you used, but it doesn't count your plugged in power at all.  And last I looked, if you try to figure it out yourself, it's almost impossible because it mixes in plugged in electricity with regen and ice generated electricity.

 

So, sure if you don't pay for or otherwise care about electric usage then mpg is likely a better readout.



#8 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:14 AM

So why is displaying mpg e better? I have just turned it on on my 2013 and it feels kind of foreign to me. Anyone willing to fill me in on features/ benefits. Thx

 

https://en.wikipedia...line_equivalent

 

 

Simply put, MPGe calculates the electricity used in the battery in gasoline terms.  One gallon of gas=33.7kWh of electricity so the Energi's 5.5ish kWh battery is approx. 1/6th gallons of energy.   So, if you get 20 miles EV out of 5.5kWh (20x6), you're netting approx. 120MPGe.  25miles EV=150MPGe and 30miles=180MPGe.  I achieved the latter once while experimenting with hypermiling techniques.

 

8B09634B-51DB-42C7-AE50-5BEDA72C4991_zps


Edited by fotomoto, 18 April 2016 - 06:20 AM.


#9 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 06:20 AM

It's simple enough in that scenario to calculate mpge but once the ICE enters the equation it gets a lot more complicated without the mpge reading...

 

And if you're only using EV miles then in "mpg" mode you get a useless number.

 

Simply put, MPGe calculates the electricity used in the battery in gasoline terms.  One gallon of gas=33.7kWh of electricity so the Energi's 5.5ish kWh battery is approx. 1/6th gallons of energy.   So, if you get 20 miles EV out of 5.5kWh, you're netting approx. 120MPGe.  25miles EV=150MPGe and 30miles=180MPGe. 



#10 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 07:59 AM

For my purposes simply put it tells me energy used/efficiency used in a simple format.

 

If you leave it in mpg mode it seems considerably more difficult to figure out energy used.  It will tell you how much gas mileage you used, but it doesn't count your plugged in power at all.  And last I looked, if you try to figure it out yourself, it's almost impossible because it mixes in plugged in electricity with regen and ice generated electricity.

 

So, sure if you don't pay for or otherwise care about electric usage then mpg is likely a better readout.

No, it is really pretty simple to figure the energy used. The KWH listed in the trip meters is the net energy used from plugging in. All you have to do it convert that to the "equivilent" gallons, add it to the gasoline gallons, and divide. That gives MPGe. I keep my numbers in a spreadsheet on my phone, and it gets calculated every time I fill up.



#11 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 18 April 2016 - 08:21 AM

No, it is really pretty simple to figure the energy used. The KWH listed in the trip meters is the net energy used from plugging in. All you have to do it convert that to the "equivilent" gallons, add it to the gasoline gallons, and divide. That gives MPGe. I keep my numbers in a spreadsheet on my phone, and it gets calculated every time I fill up.

 

Ahh, that does sound like a relatively simple enough way.

 

I guess I've just gotten used to looking at MFM every other day to see what my MPG's are(going through a tank of gas is so rare these days).  And that doesn't show plug-in power on it's own.



#12 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 20 April 2016 - 02:35 PM

Ahh, that does sound like a relatively simple enough way.

 

I guess I've just gotten used to looking at MFM every other day to see what my MPG's are(going through a tank of gas is so rare these days).  And that doesn't show plug-in power on it's own.

My "MPGe" is a bit more sophisticated, I also calculate for the 72% L1 charging efficiency. I don't think the built in meters on the 2013 account for that. I'm interested in the actual KWH used, not just what is indicated in the trip meter.



#13 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 04:10 AM

My "MPGe" is a bit more sophisticated, I also calculate for the 72% L1 charging efficiency. I don't think the built in meters on the 2013 account for that. I'm interested in the actual KWH used, not just what is indicated in the trip meter.

Indeed, there is the factor of how much energy is used at different points.  Your calculations are better for determining a total usage.

 

The trip meter looks to be accurately showing kwh used, but used from the point of already being in the car.  Your calculations are going to be more accurate as they are accounting for kwh used from the EVSE.



#14 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:43 AM

Indeed, there is the factor of how much energy is used at different points.  Your calculations are better for determining a total usage.

 

The trip meter looks to be accurately showing kwh used, but used from the point of already being in the car.  Your calculations are going to be more accurate as they are accounting for kwh used from the EVSE.

Well, to be REALLY accurate, you have to mount a power monitor such as kill-a-watt or similar, and note the exact power usage. I know some folks do. But it isn't that important to me; my rough calculations will do.



#15 OFFLINE   Jeff732

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 05:20 PM

Does anyone know how to switch back and forth from the MPGe/MPG display?

I did it the other nite and cant remember how?

I did several google searches and looked thru the manual and cant find it........

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jeff



#16 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 05:35 PM

I do it all the time, its under the left screen last option on the bottom:

 

Select Settings

Select Display

Then select Units

Then select Fuel Economy

And finally,

Select Fuel only for MPG, or Fuel and Electric for MPGe.

 

I always use MPGe when running on 100% electric, and at any time I start the engine during my trip then I switch to MPG as my electric is all free whether I get it at home or on the road and that improves my bottom line MPG so I want to see what I really net on a trip with gas burn and the available charge of the HVB.

 

When driving electric only, I use MPGe as I can use the numbers it gives to judge how well I'm driving and/or how the conditions are affecting my MPGe numbers (cold, rain, night driving, etc) which in turn gives me a sense of how far I can go on a charge.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 22 October 2016 - 05:35 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   Jeff732

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 07:20 PM

^^ Thanks much

 

I would have never thought of looking in units!  :-)

 

Today I went 30 miles and got 90 MPGe, ICE came on for the last 5 miles but rest was EV


Edited by Jeff732, 22 October 2016 - 07:22 PM.


#18 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 22 October 2016 - 08:03 PM

90 is kinda low, almost impossible in MPGe in all electric, but if your engine runs then yes it will drop.  If you had switched it to MPG, you might find out that you got 100mpg for that trip, because you went 30 miles, 25 of which were electric only, the 5 or less on the engine (less if it cycled on and off).  You probably burned about 0.3 gallon of fuel for those 5 miles due to warmup waste or high speed.

 

Glad you found it, this car is full of neat features that keep the interest level high when you drive.   :smile2:

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 22 October 2016 - 08:04 PM.


#19 OFFLINE   Jeff732

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 08:10 AM

^ yes I'm glad I found it, thanx!

Tried to send this to your in box but was full....

Wanted to ask you, every time I turn on the climate, even just for the fan or heat, it starts always with the AC ON, is there a way to stop that from being on every time? It even does it if I just use the fan with AC off then next time I turn it on, it is not just fan only, the AC is in on position. Thanks much, Jeff

#20 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 09:49 AM

I think it has to do with the outside temp relative to the inside temp when you turn it back on.  I know at colder temperatures, it does not turn the AC to ON.  I usually turn my climate control back on by pressing the fan speed down button rather that hitting the power button or the AUTO button.  The climate control seems to "wake up" in different states depending on which button you press to turn it on.










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