Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

How to get better gas mileage on the highway


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 17 December 2015 - 07:26 PM

Lots of hours in the car and paying attention to how things are working led me to figure out certain things that I'm going to share with you guys here.  Let me post the video as it explains it and then I can add some text to this.  Watch this to start:

 

 

I am uploading more vidoes now...

 

Here is a video of what happens if you do EV later right from the start and save 95% of the battery on the highway:

 

 

Ok and here is what happens when you set the point to 93% (or lower) to give some headroom:

 

https://youtu.be/8lHhOtnas4A

 

Here is another example of over 50mpg at 65mph with the battery set point at another level, 13% charged to 15-16%.

 

https://youtu.be/0G_7k6tDjZY

 

I suppose the video is worth a 1000 words as they say, so hope its self explanatory in there but if you have any questions please let me know.  Because of all this highly efficient ICE driving, when I filled up the gas time every time the gas mile range went up and up and up, from 587 to 620 to 625 to an all time high of 632, I took a picture of the highest number for the record!  As an added note regarding that picture, the range is determined using the RAFE number, which is the recent average fuel economy of the ICE.  The number is derived by multiplying the RAFE number, in this case 45.14 mpg, by 14, the number of gallons in the fuel tank, yielding 632.  If on the next run your engine is not performing as well, because for example you're letting the HVB discharge down hills and recharge all the time, then the next fill up might yield 587 miles (for example), meaning your  RAFE number dropped to 41.92 as an example.  Hope that makes sense.

 

-=>Raja.

Attached Files


Edited by rbort, 17 December 2015 - 08:47 PM.

  • ahc19081 likes this







Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

bschwerdt

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 423 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse, NY
  • My C-MAX:2015
  • Current Vehicle:2015 CMax Energi, 302A / 2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premier

Posted 18 December 2015 - 06:25 AM

Excellent videos, Raja.  Thanks for sharing!  Your contributions to this forum are wonderful.

 

If I were to try to summarize what you're saying in the first video, it would be "anticipate the hills" by forcing the ICE to fire up rather than letting the car drain the battery too much before firing up the ICE and then having to recharge.  This makes sense to me, since there are losses in charging/discharging the battery.

 

The second video just shows one of the great advantages of a PHEV over an HEV.  Namely, the battery has greater overhead to absorb extra energy when available whereas the HEV has a smaller battery with less head room.  Going straight into EV Later eliminates that advantage by taking away your headroom.  This is something that drove me crazy when driving my old Insight through the Catskill mountains.  The battery would frequently top off long before I got to the bottom of a hill.

 

Feel free to correct / elaborate on my interpretation if I misstated something.



#3 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

Smiling Jack

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 366 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationHouston, Texas
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi 303A w. sun roof

Posted 18 December 2015 - 07:32 AM

For best highway mileage:

 

1. Keep speed down to 40 mpg. (Settle for 45, if that is the posted minimum.)

2. Keep length of trip under 20 miles.

3. Use EV-now.

 

You could get 175 MPGe this way.


Edited by Smiling Jack, 18 December 2015 - 07:35 AM.


#4 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

bschwerdt

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 423 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse, NY
  • My C-MAX:2015
  • Current Vehicle:2015 CMax Energi, 302A / 2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premier

Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:07 AM

LOL!  Thanks, Smiling Jack.  I'll be sure to try that next time I hop on the Thruway for a 250 mile trip.  I'll start checking PlugShare now for a place to charge every 20 miles.



#5 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:15 AM

Good morning Bschwerdt (I hate have to call you that, maybe tell me your name would be nicer?!)

 

I wouldn't call it "anticipate the hills" but I would say that hills are "ok" and the ICE needs to run to climb them at highway speeds, however, once you're over the top the ICE will shut off as there is no load on it going downhill.  Now you're on battery.  Its hard to make the ice run downhill as there isn't enough load, unless you increase your speed but then you're increasing drag.  So wait until the downhill section is over going down the highway and when the road starts to level off and you see the power coming up in the Empower screen (with a limit of 2 bars in EV later), step on the gas gradually and slowly until you go over 2 bars and restart the ice, sooner than later (meaning not waiting for the car to go 1 mile on battery until the 2 bars drop for the ICE to restart automatically).  Once the ICE starts slowly release your foot to keep it running (taking it off quick can sometimes shut off the ICE again due to no load briefly) and continue onwards.  This way the HVB doesn't drain from for example 95% down to 93 or 92 sometimes even 90% until the ICE would restart automatically.

 

If the battery remains at 95% which is 2% higher then the EV later setpoint, then your ICE will make 40 mpg or more.  If you allow the battery to drain down to say 93 to even as low as 90%, then when the ICE starts it will be aggressively charging the HVB while propelling the car and the net MPG will be around 20mpg.  Average 20mpg for however long it takes it to ramp up slowly to 25, 30, 35, 40 and finally back to where you where and your total trip MPG will drop.

 

This technique works best when the temps are warm and the ICE can muster 50mpg on average down the highway.  In cold temps where the ICE is barely making 40mpg or slightly above the benefit is less when forcing the ice to stay on.  You'll see what I mean when you encounter both scenarios.

 

On the HVB "room" part, you need to allow for it to recharge more (+2 up to +3% max of the setpoint) for the ICE to be able to go over 50mpg down the highway.  If you don't allow for that headroom then the battery keeps getting used (because its hitting a ceiling at 96%) and the engine keeps having to recharge it somewhat while driving and you'll be limited to 45mpg tops from what I could see on a flat road at 65mph.  Make sense?

 

Jack:

 

If you do this:
 

1. Keep speed down to 40 mpg. (Settle for 45, if that is the posted minimum.)

2. Keep length of trip under 20 miles.

3. Use EV-now.

 

 

You could get close to 200 MPGe or sometimes higher with some traffic, see below that was a fantastic score for me, make it to Boston almost 27 miles with 7 miles range remaining.

 

-=>Raja.

 

 

Attached Files


Edited by rbort, 18 December 2015 - 08:20 AM.

  • Smiling Jack likes this

#6 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 18 December 2015 - 08:27 AM

One more thing, sometimes it may be a good idea to recharge the HVB while driving for later usage.  On my way home 2 nights ago, it was cold and raining and I had to drive on route 15 at speeds of 50-55mph due to a 2 lane winding road with bad visibility.  I used that opportunity to recharge the HVB (since there is excess power from the engine at lower speeds) from 10% back up to 33% so that I could use it later to get home from the highway, about a 10 mile section of country road that I could drive 30-40mph on.  I feel that this was better than leaving the battery dead and using the engine to go the slow speeds in hybrid mode as there wasn't much HVB left.  I only charged enough as to what I thought I needed and I was right on, I made it home with 1/2 a hybrid battery.  

 

I would say that its better to recharge the HVB if you are driving with the ICE slower (in the 45 to 55 range) than at full cruise speed of 65mph, though I haven't tested the end result enough to know for sure due to so many variables.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 18 December 2015 - 08:28 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 304 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 19 December 2015 - 09:51 AM

I am convinced that recharging is beneficial to overall mpg if one faces any length of surface roads after a highway trip. (Of course, as Raja shows, not overdoing it, but trying to come close to the amount of charge needed to get home with minimal left).

The best 'flight regime' to borrow an aviation phrase in which to use the ICE is steady state highway driving.
Next best is roads with long distances between stop signs & traffic lights.
Also reasonably efficient is to use an already-warmed-up ICE to climb big hills, when one's overall trip exceeds the EV range.

In all the other driving situations I commonly encounter--
-stop & go traffic
-short blocks marked by steep hills, stop signs & traffic lights
-roads with 40-45-50mph speed limits that have poorly timed traffic lights that make us slam to a stop
-and so on, in those driving situations, the ICE is not in its most efficient realm and EV driving is preferable.
For as long as it lasts! There's the rub. We've only got so much range, and the 2nd & 3rd of my examples are killer in any mode. But at least in EV Now, we're being inefficient with electrons, not gasoline.

So when I'm on the highway, I'm all about leaving sufficient charge or recharging in order to use EV Now when I'm on surface roads & residential streets at the end of the trip. And Raja I definitely appreciate the 93% vs. 95% insights above. I almost always take it down to 90% or so just because of the nature of my route, but this is good to know.

Rick

#8 OFFLINE   P=E/t

P=E/t

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 304 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationPhiladelphia PA
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 19 December 2015 - 09:52 AM

I am convinced that recharging is beneficial to overall mpg if one faces any length of surface roads after a highway trip. (Of course, as Raja shows, not overdoing it, but trying to come close to the amount of charge needed to get home with minimal left).

The best 'flight regime' to borrow an aviation phrase in which to use the ICE is steady state highway driving.
Next best is roads with long distances between stop signs & traffic lights.
Also reasonably efficient is to use an already-warmed-up ICE to climb big hills, when one's overall trip exceeds the EV range.

In all the other driving situations I commonly encounter--
-stop & go traffic
-short blocks marked by steep hills, stop signs & traffic lights
-roads with 40-45-50mph speed limits that have poorly timed traffic lights that make us slam to a stop
-and so on, in those driving situations, the ICE is not in its most efficient realm and EV driving is preferable.
For as long as it lasts! There's the rub. We've only got so much range, and the 2nd & 3rd of my examples are killer in any mode. But at least in EV Now, we're being inefficient with electrons, not gasoline.

So when I'm on the highway, I'm all about leaving sufficient charge or recharging in order to use EV Now when I'm on surface roads & residential streets at the end of the trip. And Raja I definitely appreciate the 93% vs. 95% insights above. I almost always take it down to 90% or so just because of the nature of my route, but this is good to know.

Rick

#9 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 19 December 2015 - 10:17 AM

Right on Rick, you're with me 100%!   :hi5:

 

-=>Raja.



#10 OFFLINE   bschwerdt

bschwerdt

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 423 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationSyracuse, NY
  • My C-MAX:2015
  • Current Vehicle:2015 CMax Energi, 302A / 2017 Chevrolet Bolt Premier

Posted 20 December 2015 - 06:11 PM

Raja/Rick,

 

I think this all makes sense to me.  The CMax is my wife's car, so she drives it most of the time.  I only drive it when we are taking a long trip (like our upcoming Christmas trips, if it's out of the shop in time - but that's another story).  I will certainly experiment with these techniques.  The beauty of this design is that the complex interactions between the EV and ICE parts of the car, there are a lot of variables to play with.  As an engineer who love to optimize things, it sounds like a fun challenge!

 

Btw, my name is Brian.  I've updated my signature so you don't have to refer to me as "bschwerdt".



#11 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 20 December 2015 - 08:07 PM

Hey Brian nice to meet you and yes definitely this car keeps the interest going even on long trips you don't mind the time as your mind is always thinking what to do next!

 

-=>Raka.


  • bschwerdt likes this

#12 OFFLINE   Jimmy Fett

Jimmy Fett

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationBack Swamp
  • My C-MAX:2013
  • Current Vehicle:SEL Energi

Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:04 PM

Thanks for these videos. My commute is just short of 25 miles each way on rural roads in the coastal plains of NC. Rolling hills are inherent in the swamps and I was starting to think I had made a mistake buying a CMax Energi as my most recent MPGe for a full burn/depleted battery run without climate control was 39.0. Using the EV Later/93% reserve technique today netted me 46.3 MPGe while using the AC in 45-55 MPH limited roads with no traffic lights in ECO cruise. I even have an almost full battery for the drive home, when I'm most apt to let my mind wander to non-MPG related subjects. Thanks again for sharing this technique and making it easy to understand.



#13 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 24 May 2016 - 05:19 PM

You're welcome Jimmy!  If you want to get more MPG numbers out of your car, you need to make more decisions on when to use the battery and when to use the engine, even on that 25 mile trip.  There are many factors to consider, over time you get better and better in maximizing the performance.  For example, if you start the engine, you need to "use" all the power it has but not more, meaning the engine is limited to 1500 rpms while running until warmed up and you want to drive at a speed that uses 1500 rpms, not less, and not more.  If you go too slow you waste fuel as you're not getting somewhere with it, if you go too fast you use HVB for anything over 1500 rpms, and you have to recharge it back up later meaning you will lose MPG numbers until you get back to the initial EV later setting +2%.  That's just one factor, there are others..

 

As far as getting home with a full battery, don't do that. Make sure you use up the rest of it before you get there, as your MPG will be ever higher and higher the more battery you use.  You have to learn to judge when to turn off the engine so you can make it the rest of the way home on battery arriving there with your target being the HVB reaches 0% as you turn down your street (and still with a full hybrid battery).

 

Enjoy the car, its alot of fun to drive, I really like all the options it gives me and all that makes the drive more enjoyable!

 

-=>Raja.



#14 OFFLINE   stevedebi

stevedebi

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,123 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationLos Angeles
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:2016 C-Max Energi 302A Pkg

Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:23 AM

Raja,

Thanks for the videos. Here in SoCal that sort of flat is pretty rare. I get 40 MPG at 72 MPH with rolling hills, so I suspect 45 is possible at 65. I just don't drive that slow - the traffic usually moves at 75-80 on the freeways.

 

I think if I were on a 40 mile commute with half highway I would probably get around 60 combined. I go over the big hill weekly. Last night I started with 8 miles on the battery, and when  I got home (after a 70 MPH highway trip, plus surface streets, probably about 60% highway), it was at 59 MPG, with zero miles on the HVB. Then I forgot to plug in, and this morning I got 50.7 MPG in town running hybrid mode. The car rewards careful driving.

 

I'm convinced that if Ford were to spend the time they could develop highway algorithms for the Energi that better maximized the MPG. I believe they use the same programming for EV Later as they do for the Hybrid models. If they planned for the higher capacity HVB, they could implement techniques via computer that would work better.


  • dontfret likes this

#15 OFFLINE   astrand1

astrand1

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 299 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationDetroit
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:Me= 2014 C-Max Energi 302a, White platinum metallic. wife= 2014 Fusion Hybrid

Posted 25 May 2016 - 05:19 PM

So what's the trick to getting it to "charge the battery" while you drive. I'm pretty good with everything else but that's one thing I have a hard time with. There must be a sweet spot to keep it where there is enough throttle to keep the ice running but too much so that the batteries can charge.

#16 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 25 May 2016 - 05:30 PM

Here Astrand:

 

Read this:

 

http://fordcmaxenerg...-while-driving/

 

There are good videos there to watch and learn how to do it.

 

Remember to only charge enough as to what you need to get your destination once off the highway.

 

 

Edit:  Sorry to note, in post #4 of the above thread the pictures are missing.  This is because they don't give me enough space here to leave pictures up and I post so much on this forum trying to teach and show people how to do stuff I always run out of space and have to delete pictures from previous posts to make room for new stuff.  I asked Fotomoto to talk to the owners to see if they would be OK with granting me more space so that I'm not destroying valuable content to create new content, but they have been very slow to respond to his request for me and so far no news is no news about that.  Again, sorry for the loss of photos, takes away from that post, but watch the videos after that, they should help alot.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 25 May 2016 - 07:44 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 25 May 2016 - 07:52 PM

Just watched video in post #5.  Note that back then I was still learning, things to note is that the range can go from 13% up to 15% (not 14) and maybe 16% peak.  The battery will help the engine when needed as the car is trying to maintain 40mpg when the battery is full, and trying to maintain 20mpg when climbing a hill (uses battery to help in most cases even if battery is lower than full - the car does not want to run at anything less than 20mpg).  The MPG does improve quite a bit on level roads when the battery is +2% of the set point, in that example, if it reaches 15% then the MPG will go north of 45mpg.  When charging the MPG numbers are only in the 30's at best, and even 20's if there is any incline.

 

Just FYI.

 

-=>Raja.



#18 OFFLINE   astrand1

astrand1

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 299 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationDetroit
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:Me= 2014 C-Max Energi 302a, White platinum metallic. wife= 2014 Fusion Hybrid

Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:24 AM

Here Astrand:

Read this:

http://fordcmaxenerg...-while-driving/

There are good videos there to watch and learn how to do it.

Remember to only charge enough as to what you need to get your destination once off the highway.


Edit: Sorry to note, in post #4 of the above thread the pictures are missing. This is because they don't give me enough space here to leave pictures up and I post so much on this forum trying to teach and show people how to do stuff I always run out of space and have to delete pictures from previous posts to make room for new stuff. I asked Fotomoto to talk to the owners to see if they would be OK with granting me more space so that I'm not destroying valuable content to create new content, but they have been very slow to respond to his request for me and so far no news is no news about that. Again, sorry for the loss of photos, takes away from that post, but watch the videos after that, they should help alot.

-=>Raja.


Thanks! I did watch them. I will prolly watch them again for even better understanding. I'm pretty good at trying to hypermile and squeezing miles out of the battery but I'm always up for learning more tricks! So as it worked out on my way home last night I had about 6% battery left and it was 59 degrees outside. Climate was off only had radio on. I set my cruise at 65 like you showed in the videos and the best the car would do was maybe 40mpg. The road is fairly flat. I guess I have much more practicing to do. When I got home which was about 26 miles car reported overall mpg of 37.8 which is not bad but I'd love to start getting numbers closer to yours at some point. 👍

#19 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 3,865 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 26 May 2016 - 10:10 AM

Remember that if you pushed EV later at 6% you need to charge the battery up to 8% before you start seeing numbers over 40mpg at 65mph.  Cold hurts, but 60 degrees isn't bad.  Ideally mid 70's works really well.  Also note that you must not let the car waste the HVB if you are trying to maximize MPG numbers, in other words if you go over a flyover or little incline up and down and the car switches to battery make sure to switch it back to engine as soon as the load demand comes back (road levels off from downgrade).  Otherwise it can stay on battery until your 8% might be down to 5% or even less if there isn't much load and then you have to wait all the way back up to 8% before you get into back to the mid 40mpg+.

 

Could be other factors also, inflating the tires to 50PSI helps from original 38PSI if you haven't already done that.  With summer weather coming, if you inflate to 50 but then a month later the weather is consistently much hotter, then you need to recheck them and leak them down to 50PSI cold (without driving the car that day when you check them).  On the other side of the coin as fall comes you need to re-inflate them back up as cold weather drops the PSI levels.  Just like the deflate gate saga they can't get over, if you inflate a football at 72 degrees room temperature to say 12 PSI and take it out in 20 degree weather, when it cools down the pressure is going to drop from 12 to 10 1/2 or so.  Its just the way it works.

 

Here, this is a good performance report videos to watch:

 

http://fordcmaxenerg...way-to-florida/

 

I'm look for the other one, that shows how to keep the engine running past flyovers...

 

OK, here is a video that talks about that:

 

 

Enjoy!

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 26 May 2016 - 10:22 AM.


#20 OFFLINE   astrand1

astrand1

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 299 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationDetroit
  • My C-MAX:2014
  • Current Vehicle:Me= 2014 C-Max Energi 302a, White platinum metallic. wife= 2014 Fusion Hybrid

Posted 26 May 2016 - 01:36 PM

Thanks for all the info! Love it. Yeah I've had quite a few hybrids over the years so my tires were at 50 as soon as I brought it home from the dealer. Lol. Yeah as I remember last night I think that might have been my problem. I was not kicking it out of EV after a downhill. Like I said going to watch those videos again and will do more practicing. 👍








0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·