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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Clicking in Charger and Charge Fault - Wrench warning light On

bad charger charging fault charger replacement

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94 replies to this topic

#81 OFFLINE   altabrig

altabrig

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 11:45 AM

Hi folks.   

 

Ford told me to pound sand in response to my request to replace my second level one EVSE convenience cord.  

 

Since I found a used Level 2 Ebusbar NEMA 10-30 on ebay that has worked well for over a month, I decided to try to replace the plug on the level one as numerous posters have suggested. 

 

Polishing the plug prongs did nothing, and placing an icepack on the plug was a tedious solution that only delayed the inevitable charge fault an hour or two, so I wanted to get the cord back to working order by swapping the plug. 

 

There has been some discussion as to whether or not a temp sensor exists within the molded rubber 3 prong plug.  Upon slicing the plug in half and dissecting the molded rubber between the three prong I found that there are 2 extra wires 22 AWG in blue and brown in addition to the 16 AWG Black, White and Green.  

 

I would like to upload the photos of the wiring and the dissected ends of the 22 AWG brown and blue wire ends with soldered connections which look to be to two halves of a soldered on wishbone temp sensor, but I cannot upload photos through the gallery anymore despite having current flash and loading smaller MB photos.  I apologize.  I have pictures to illustrate this and a couple other threads, but only get a message that a "server error occurred during upload." So instead of adding photos where appropriate I'll add em below.  Maybe someone can figure out if it is a sensor or just soldered together or some other configuration.

 

I have failed to fix the issue after three different wiring attempts with the blue and brown 22 AWG wires (in addition to the 16 AWG Black- Hot, White- Neutral and Green -Earth/Ground.)

 

Each of my wiring attempts have caused the EVSE to fault instantly upon plugging into outlet without being plugged into vehicle charge port.

 

I have tried  1)capping the ends of the blue and brown 22AWG, 2) wiring them together and 3) wiring the brown to the hot prong and the blue to the neutral.  All attempts to get the EVSE going have failed.   Perhaps there is a mechanical defect in the new Leviton Heavy Duty Male plug causing a fault, but it seems unlikely.

 

I was unable to excavate the delicate wiring and possible tiny soldered sensor in one piece out of the solid molded rubber and unfortunately can't upload the pics to gallery so someone with better knowledge could more easily troubleshoot.   I don't know where the soldered ends were connected by very delicate wire which may have been a wishbone shaped ambient temp sensor connected to both blue and brown wire.   The blue and brown may need an ambient temp sensor soldered on between the two, or they need that in addition to being soldered to hot and neutral.

 

The blue and brown wires could also have been soldered separately to the hot and neutral prongs or both the sensor and prongs.  I dug out two soldered wire ends (blue and brown) and two fine solder wire leads to what could be two halves (2mm each) of the temp sensor. The picture below only shows one of the soldered leads (brown), the blue soldered end got lost, but was the same thing - a wire tip with solder.

 

I thought I recalled that someone had actually changed a plug on the forum, but do not recall mention of the brown or blue leads.

 

JZ suggested that soldering them together may work, but I am not sure how that would be different than wiring them.   Obviously without the sensor their is no failsafe.   That is ok if I can get the thing to charge.  It will mainly be used outdoors as a backup on an extension when away from the home, but also if my level 2 EVSE starts acting up.

 

Should I should try to purchase a sensor from a local electronics store and solder it on or what is the next step?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.     Thanks.

Attached Files


Edited by altabrig, 30 September 2017 - 11:58 AM.








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#82 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 08:36 PM

Tried conecting the 22 AWG blue and brown by one strand then by two strands but it still faulted as when the two wires were wrapped completely or just disconnected.

Anyone successfully replaced the plug?

#83 OFFLINE   yeedk

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Posted 30 September 2017 - 09:20 PM

If you have some resistors, maybe 10k OHM resistor, on the temp sensor wires.  I am guessing it is a 10k thermistor.


Edited by yeedk, 30 September 2017 - 09:28 PM.


#84 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 05:26 AM

Thanks for the input!

Based on Google images for a 10k thermistor. It may be. Please excuse my questions, I am ignorant about thermistors. I am assuming that with the NTC thermistor the resistance drops with heat and the circuit fault with increased flow?

Do you know if there would be different temp range thermistors at 10k ohms?

#85 OFFLINE   yeedk

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:01 AM

Most 10k thermistors are NTC and have a tempurature range of -40C to +125C.  However, there are all sorts of thermistor with differing specs.  10kohm is the resistance at 25C for a 10kohm thermistor.



#86 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 07:54 AM

Well that is my best and only lead at this point. Thank you.

I thought I had read on a thread that someone had successfully installed a new plug. I would love to know what they did with those little brown and blue wires.

#87 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 09:19 AM

I'm afraid to say that you might have damaged something by wiring the heat sensor wires to 120v.  Hopefully not but get the right resistor and put that on those wires and try again and hopefully it will work properly for you. 

 

I think the older chargers didn't have a heat sensor unit in the plug.  One of the guys who replaced that plug in the past probably didn't have those extra wires.

 

By the way, I cleaned up my plug prongs with a dremel tool wire brush and the temp of the plug is certainly lower with better contact.  I'm still using the older charger that I bought off ebay after my original 2013 was stolen.  The 2017, its charger is in its spot in the car in case I need it when I don't have the other one with me.

 

-=>Raja.



#88 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 10:54 AM

Don't know if there was a change in plug wiring, but it might have occurred. My real world experience is that first and second Ford level 1 EVSE cables were identical in appearance and that their performance decreased as they increasingly faulted and eventually failed in exactly the same way.

Do you know exactly what resistor is required?

I would love to get some real world beta. Yeedk's suggestion of the 10k ohm thermistor is the best lead without a schematic or info from someone who has actually changed the plug.

A schematic would be ideal but that is probably dreaming. Anyone know who was the manufacturer of the convenience charge cord for Ford?

Appreciate the consideration.

Edited by altabrig, 01 October 2017 - 10:55 AM.


#89 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 01 October 2017 - 06:32 PM

Resistance should go up the hotter it gets. Hopefully the 10k Ohm thermistor is the key. Really beyond me at this point....

I would suspect any similar EVSE would have a similar schematic.

I suspect the solder in the connector was the point of failure.

Edited by jzchen, 01 October 2017 - 06:37 PM.


#90 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 10:24 AM

Resistance should go up the hotter it gets. Hopefully the 10k Ohm thermistor is the key. Really beyond me at this point....

I would suspect any similar EVSE would have a similar schematic.

I suspect the solder in the connector was the point of failure.

Beyond me too, I will  try the thermistor unless I can find a schematic that shows different.  Thanks



#91 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:23 PM

Looks like they might be grounded:

 

http://23.21.184.60/...7/J1772evse.jpg

 

http://enginuitysyst...Charger_PCB.pdf

 

..........



#92 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 02 October 2017 - 12:36 PM

Looks like they might be grounded:

 

http://23.21.184.60/...7/J1772evse.jpg

 

http://enginuitysyst...Charger_PCB.pdf

 

..........

I thought about trying them on the ground, but didn't.   If they are both wired to the ground prong clamp it seems like the electrons would just flow in a circuit and fault as it does when the brown and blue are wired together? 

 

 The schematics you posted are beyond my understanding.  I will have to read up to decipher the point where the blue and brown are wired to earth. Thanks.  Perhaps I will give it a shot  before going the thermistor route.


Edited by altabrig, 02 October 2017 - 12:43 PM.


#93 OFFLINE   cwstnsko

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 06:28 AM

Nissan Leafs have a similar thermistor in the plug and similar problems with overheating connections causing degradation.  Searching on the Leaf Forums may get you some clues about solutions since there is a much larger number of Leaf drivers than Energi drivers.



#94 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 03 October 2017 - 08:05 AM

Thanks for the heads up!   I was planing on going by Mar Vac electronics after work and getting a thermistor to solder on those wires.    I figured I would go that route before trying to ground those wires, which I think would just create a fault, but I don't know.    

 

Appreciate any information.   I have scanned the web for schematics, but I am not able to decipher any that would solve my issue.    I will do a search for the overheat issue with the leaf the level one charge.



#95 OFFLINE   altabrig

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Posted 04 October 2017 - 12:58 PM

Soldered a 10K Ohm NTC Thermistor to the brown and blue wires.   After plugging in  the EVSE, the green light is on by itself solid for about three seconds and then the red light faults before I can plug it into the cmax.   It was a fail.

 

Maybe someone will see this and enlighten me as to what I should solder on the ends of the wires to get it to work?    Maybe I need a new help thread, but with the minimum traffic on the forum, I would not expect much information.  Perhaps there is an on again off again member who will know something.   I did search extensively through My Leaf forum, but only found info on a Level two that was fixed with a 10k thermistor.  The beta on the actual replacement was nil.  

 

I don't think it is the new plug itself.  I can't see any possible spots for an arc or fault.

 

Thanks for any info.

 

 

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