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How to improve Winter MPG's

winter mpgs

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62 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 28 October 2015 - 12:44 PM

From the testing I've done the shutters aren't very effective on improving aerodynamics or conserving heat.  From the testing I did in the past Grill Covers improve aerodynamics by 2 mpg at FWY speeds and 2 mpg by allowing ICE  to get up to operating temp and doing it quicker.  You would have to block shutters open to see how much of a drop in mpg's you would get which would be a combination of aero and heat lost. :smile2: 

 

Paul 









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#22 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 08:18 AM

Good advice!

 

The only trouble with use a heater is that you're robbing Peter to pay Paul, in other words maybe you get an extra 2mpg but you're paying electric to heat the car so one way or another you're paying extra for the savings.

 

-=>Raja.

 

 

not exactly

 

The amount of energy that is wasted in extra gasoline burned  during the warm-up cycle is a whole lot greater than the amount of energy needed to heat up the engine.  The waste is due to the fact that when the engine is cold (and in this context even 80 or 90 degrees is "cold") gasoline condenses out on the cylinder walls.  To make up for this, the car's system makes the mixture excessively rich.  The unburned gasoline is flushed out through the exhaust valves on the exhaust cycles.  In olden days you could smell it in the exhaust.  Nowadays it gets burned in the catalytic converters.

 

So, a block heater is a pretty efficient way to reduce the cold start gasoline wastage.

 

A whole lot better way is to get a PHEV and avoid most of the cold starts altogether!

 

Although I'm a strong believer in block heater benefits, with the Energi, I don't see the need.


Edited by Smiling Jack, 29 October 2015 - 09:37 AM.

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#23 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:23 AM

It would make sense for trips more then 20mi. or where you were going to work but didn't have a charging station so you would Hybrid to work and EV home. :smile2:

 

Paul



#24 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 29 October 2015 - 09:40 AM

It would make sense for trips more then 20mi. or where you were going to work but didn't have a charging station so you would Hybrid to work and EV home. :smile2:

 

Paul

 

Absolutely !

 

If I were in that situation, I would install block heater in a heartbeat - and use it all year round, even here in subtropical Houston.


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#25 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 07:24 AM

I thought would remind members what can be done to minimize the loss of MPG's during the up coming cold weather months that some are already experiencing.sad.png  You can go to Post #1 to for all the info.smile.png

 

Paul


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#26 OFFLINE   SELT

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 06:38 PM

Thanks Paul for the great advice on the 1st Post! Don't know how I missed this topic, wouldn't have started a similar one in the 2017 section LoL...

Will definitely look into covering them grills. Could you clarify when would you block the lower grills, or keep up them blocked all year round like the upper? Thanks again for the info 👍

#27 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:16 AM

Thanks Paul for the great advice on the 1st Post! Don't know how I missed this topic, wouldn't have started a similar one in the 2017 section LoL...

Will definitely look into covering them grills. Could you clarify when would you block the lower grills, or keep up them blocked all year round like the upper? Thanks again for the info

I think you could cover both grills all year around, I would want to have OBDII Gauge like ScanGaugeII to monitor WT,TFT, SOC and HVB temps to be safe. :smile2:  If you are going to use A/C and not the ICE you might remove lower cover to get better air flow for the A/C system. :smile2:

 

Paul



#28 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 22 October 2017 - 06:32 AM

I was on a business trip last week and Winter has hit the Northeast with temps down to freezing.  I filled up in Shippensburgh, PA  elev. 686 ft, temp 35*F and drove to Philadelphia about 150 miles, elev. 125 ft and 65*F.  I started out with 33 mpg and worked it's way up to 50.1 mpg when I got there. Just another example of how well these  Mods work during cold weather.smile.png

 

Paul



#29 OFFLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:02 PM

I'm in Winnipeg, Canada, so it gets pretty cold here.  C-Max Energis delivered here do normally come with the block heater, but my local dealer sold the Energi I was planning to lease and had another brought in from Ontario for me. Apparently Ontario Energis do not come with the block heater.  We discussed the block heater at the time of delivery and he said the heater was not too expensive, but the labor to have it installed was crazy due to the degree to which the car had to be disassembled to get at it. We also had a discussion about the risk of the car not starting without a block heater on the coldest mornings he assured me that hybrids in general seemed to have the least problems starting in cold weather due to the use of the HVB to start the ICE. I have been following these threads ever since, trying to understand whether a block heater is worth the investment.

After driving the car for several months and understanding how the Energi drive train works, I'm questioning how much benefit block heater would provide.  Unless you purposefully start your drive in EV Later to force the ICE to start, or you live someplace so cold that the car forces the ICE to start, most of the heat you put into the engine with the block heater will be lost during the 1st few miles of EV driving.

To be fair, I haven't owned my Energi over a full winter yet, so I'm still learning, and it's only gotten down to about 30 degrees (F) so far this year. On a 30 degree morning, I am able to pre-heat to 65, leave my climate control set to 65 and still be able to go 15-18 miles without starting the ICE.

I'm sure over the course of the winter this will change dramatically and I will be able to map out fairly accurately the temperature limits where the car forces the ICE to start, and the circumstances where it makes sense to start my trip in EV Later to force the use of the ICE to get the heater working.  Once I know those, it should be able to figure out how frequently I would benefit from having a block heater.

 

I live in Ontario and bought my 2017 in Ontario and it came with a Block heater kit and it took me about 30 seconds to plug it in.... no bother at all.

 

Wonder what bill of goods your dealer was selling you?


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#30 OFFLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 04:09 PM

WHERE DOES THE HEATER POWER COME FROM?

 

Im a little confused as the power gauge shows a large draw when I turn the heat up to say... Defrost the window.

It also starts the engine and says, on due to conditions.

However, when the engine is warm, and is running, and the heater is going, the power gauge still shows a high battery draw.

 

So which is it.... Does the heat draw from the ICE or run off the big battery?

 

Any advice welcome.



#31 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 05:43 PM

Can run off one or the other or both.

If engine is cold heat is from battery. If too much heat demand engine is started too to assist battery building heat.

Once engine is hot heat is from engine only not the battery.

Ideally wait until engine is hot and then turn on the heat. That way you don’t have to discharge and recharge the battery with the engine.

-=>Raja.
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#32 OFFLINE   Hackster

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:17 AM

I noticed a jump in climate power draw, with warm engine, when I turn the defog/defrost only (presumably, because the A/C kicks in). However, when I hit defog+feet setting, the power draw disappears. I found it strange, but I have a solution - never turn defog only.


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#33 OFFLINE   dougTFC

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:55 AM

Thanks rbort & Hackster,

 

I will have to fiddle with the options to get this sorted. I received my 2017 in April and have had an awesome spring and summer (ideal conditions in Toronto) until now... Morning are now dropping to 4 (or even 2) degrees early morning. BAM... instantly noticed Km drop on my drive to work.

 

I also have the block heater installed but haven't used it yet, but maybe I will see if that makes a difference as well.

 

Also sounds like the grill / vent cover is a good option.

 

Thanks again.


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#34 OFFLINE   ShoulderThingThatGoesUP

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 05:35 AM

The defog is incredibly quirky on my 2013. A guaranteed way to turn on the engine is to hit the MAX DEFROST button at the same time as you accelerate. Once I pointed out to my wife that she was hitting the MAX DEFROST button instead of the regular defroster, it got better. But it's immensely frustrating to turn on the engine for heat.

 

Go Times are the best way I've found to avoid this problem - if the car is warm when you get in it, you won't need as much defrosting.


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#35 OFFLINE   ptjones

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:12 PM

I was wondering how much your MPG's have gone down with the colder weather?headscratch.gif

 

Paul



#36 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 04:28 AM

The defog is incredibly quirky on my 2013. A guaranteed way to turn on the engine is to hit the MAX DEFROST button at the same time as you accelerate. Once I pointed out to my wife that she was hitting the MAX DEFROST button instead of the regular defroster, it got better. But it's immensely frustrating to turn on the engine for heat.

 

Go Times are the best way I've found to avoid this problem - if the car is warm when you get in it, you won't need as much defrosting.

Sounds like you live in a warmer climate.  I've been playing a bit more with mine this year and as far as I've seen  Max Defrost turns on the engine no matter what.  Once it drops to like 31F outside, just pressing the normal defrost button is pretty much a guaranteed instant ICE start.  If you press the floor vents, then the defrost vents(so that both are on) then you can get a mode with some decent defrosting and not ICE starting.


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#37 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 08:45 AM

Remember that putting the car in EV mode will reduce the chances of the ICE coming on.

 

-=>Raja.



#38 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:25 AM

Remember that putting the car in EV mode will reduce the chances of the ICE coming on.

 

-=>Raja.

Yes, it definitely reduces the chances considerably.  But I forgot to mention in my previous comment that I was referring to "guaranteed" as in, I was already in EV mode and it still starts the ICE.  

 

Basically don't ask for any direct defrosting at below freezing temps cause even if you're in EV mode, you're likely going to instantly fire up the ICE.  (other than asking for feet and then also defrost.)



#39 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 09:48 AM

Yes EV now needs to be uses sometimes.  For example, I pulled into Porter Square the other night to charge up the car.  Went to go eat, came back.  The car was cold.  I powered it up while it was still plugged in and turned on the heat to 68F.  Soon the ICE started.  So I powered off the car, turned it back on.  Switched to EV Now, and turned the heat back on.  This time the ICE didn't start and the car warmed up on the external power.  In Auto mode when you demand something the car is not shy to start the ICE as it wants to satisfy your request as soon as possible.  EV now says don't start the engine if at all possible, but sometimes in extreme weather the engine is still going to start.

 

-=>Raja.



#40 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 10:01 AM

Yes EV now needs to be uses sometimes.  For example, I pulled into Porter Square the other night to charge up the car.  Went to go eat, came back.  The car was cold.  I powered it up while it was still plugged in and turned on the heat to 68F.  Soon the ICE started.  So I powered off the car, turned it back on.  Switched to EV Now, and turned the heat back on.  This time the ICE didn't start and the car warmed up on the external power.  In Auto mode when you demand something the car is not shy to start the ICE as it wants to satisfy your request as soon as possible.  EV now says don't start the engine if at all possible, but sometimes in extreme weather the engine is still going to start.

 

-=>Raja.

 

I'd recommend using EV Now at any time you don't want the ICE to start.  

 

Depends on your definition.  I don't consider 31F as extreme weather.  And yeah, if you selected EV Now and left the Climate control in Auto, it shouldn't start the ICE. But if you press that Defrost button, be prepared for it to start.  











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