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Love my Cmax but HATE Climate Control!


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17 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   eldrijt

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:22 PM

We keep our Energi in a garage here in hot/humid Alabama so when I go somewhere the temperature shows 78 degrees. With the A/C set to anything above about 70 the damn heater comes on! I can see this massive power draw in the climate power graphic. Takes my range from 28 down to 20! A/C alone takes me to 24 which is fine. I have screwed up fingers so just cranking down the temperature with that slippery dial requires me to pull over. If the fan is highish the voice control doesn't understand me. So I have to keep the temperature at 68 which freezes me out. Or I turn climate off when I start the car and sweat for 4 minutes till the Cmax displayed temperature rises to outdoor temperature of 93 or so. Then I use voice to turn it on but usually recirc is off. If it's 80 and humid and it's set to 74 the heat comes on and stays on. Really an awful system especially for me.

 

What I want is 76 degrees, fan 3rd from highest, and recirc on. And of course NO HEAT when it's 95 outside! Can I pull the heater fuse?

 

Jim









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#2 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 03:57 PM

Don't use the auto setting. Use it in manual mode.



#3 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 31 July 2015 - 07:00 PM

There's something to be said for living in the high desert like I do. Have used the defroster only a couple times in the last two years, never used the fog lights.



#4 OFFLINE   eldrijt

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:04 AM

The manual mode turns the heat on "automatically"... "for you".

 

Jim



#5 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 07:01 PM

I always watch the climate power screen when I turn on or change the climate control settings.  If you turn it up too much and the heat comes on, then my solution is to turn it back down and slow down the fan to get the same effect so to speak.

 

I know its not perfect, but you learn to work with what you got.   This car is by far the best and most interesting to drive that I've ever owned.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 01 August 2015 - 07:01 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 07:44 PM

I always watch the climate power screen when I turn on or change the climate control settings.  If you turn it up too much and the heat comes on, then my solution is to turn it back down and slow down the fan to get the same effect so to speak.

 

I know its not perfect, but you learn to work with what you got.   This car is by far the best and most interesting to drive that I've ever owned.

 

-=>Raja.

Yep... It just takes some time to get use to how things work. Some people can't figure things out very well

and get mad about it instead of trying. It's not that hard to make things work to suit their needs.

It's much easier to bash something you don't/can't understand, then to try and figure things out.

 

My HVAC system works perfect. Once you learn how to use things properly, life becomes easier.

 

RTM and try different settings until you can get what you want. It's not impossible to make it work for you.



#7 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 01 August 2015 - 09:22 PM

It's hot down here too and I have my HVAC set to 75f yet the heater never comes on.  Set at 73-75f, my heater will only come on if the outside temp is in the very low to mid 70's (or anything colder) when I leave in the mornings.  That hasn't happened since April.  

 

My suggestion?  Lower the temp till the heater doesn't activate which according to you makes you too cold so move the vents where they don't blow on you.  


Edited by fotomoto, 06 August 2015 - 01:16 PM.


#8 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 03 August 2015 - 06:08 AM

Don't bother to pull over.  Just hit the voice command button and say "Climate temperature 68 degrees"


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#9 OFFLINE   jeromep

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Posted 05 August 2015 - 03:46 PM

We keep our Energi in a garage here in hot/humid Alabama so when I go somewhere the temperature shows 78 degrees. With the A/C set to anything above about 70 the damn heater comes on! I can see this massive power draw in the climate power graphic. Takes my range from 28 down to 20! A/C alone takes me to 24 which is fine. I have screwed up fingers so just cranking down the temperature with that slippery dial requires me to pull over. If the fan is highish the voice control doesn't understand me. So I have to keep the temperature at 68 which freezes me out. Or I turn climate off when I start the car and sweat for 4 minutes till the Cmax displayed temperature rises to outdoor temperature of 93 or so. Then I use voice to turn it on but usually recirc is off. If it's 80 and humid and it's set to 74 the heat comes on and stays on. Really an awful system especially for me.

 

What I want is 76 degrees, fan 3rd from highest, and recirc on. And of course NO HEAT when it's 95 outside! Can I pull the heater fuse?

 

Jim

Is this your first vehicle with auto climate?  If so, then you may have to get used to the fact that the system doesn't operate anything like a manual air conditioning system that are seen in lesser vehicles.

 

If possible, I'd recommend using cabin preconditioning by setting Go Times.  This will pre-condition your cabin to a pre-programmed set point at a schedueled time and will prevent the vehicle from having to deal with huge temperature transitions when going from your garage to the out-of-doors.

 

You may also want to consider using your remote start feature to turn on the vehicle a few minutes prior to your drive away, again for the same purpose.  Remote start may be a better fit for you because the temperatures available from Go Time cabin pre-conditioning are something like 68, 72 and 78 degrees (don't mark my words on the uppper set point).  I use 72 degrees for my Go Time set point, winter and summer.

 

If you do a remote start of the vehicle, then the temperature set point will be wherever you left your climate control when you last used the vehicle.  THat may be a better choice for you.  Be sure that you have "silent start" turned on, which I believe will prevent the engine from coming on during the remote start.  I only suggest remote start for the cabin pre-conditioning function.

 

It does take a few minutes for the outside temperature sensor to register a more accurate ambient temperature, but the C-MAX's ambient oustide temperature sensor is a lot faster at compensating for the temp differential between your garage and the outside world than my 05 Prius.  I find that the C-MAX correctly displays outside temperature within 5 minutes or less of me leaving my garage.  My Prius may take as much as 15 minutes to do the same.

 

Auto climate control have evolved a lot over the years, however most modern auto climate systems take into account the outside air temperature when determining how much effort to put into cooling or heating the cabin of the vehicle.  This is expecially important in a vehicle built for efficiency because the auto climate system is designed to provide the most cooling or heating with the least amount of resources necessary to do so.  The C-MAX, like most hybrids, has an electric A/C compressor which can operate at variable speed.  The auto climate system uses its knowledge of outside temperature conditions, inside conditions to determine how much output it needs from the A/C compressor to effectively acomplish its task.

 

If you are moving from places of a low temperature to a place of much higher temperature, it takes time for the system to register that and then apply the right operating mode.  I've experienced this with my Prius for years now, and it is just the name of the game.

 

I don't see how the vehicle would call for heat if your garage temperature is 76 degrees and the vehicle's climate control is calling for 70.  That would still indicate a call for A/C vs. heat.  I think it is also important to point out that the electric heat function on this vehicle is pretty slow reacting.  The electric heater actually heats the coolant that is in the heater loop and that is how heat is generated when running EV only.  It takes quite a bit of time for that heater to heat up the fluid in the heater loop to generate any perceptable amount of heat.  Unless you have had a dealer confirm that the energy draw you see is attributed to the electric heat function, I suspect that something else is at play when you first start out on your drive.

 

If you have any further clarification, I'd be glad to read it and analyize.


Edited by jeromep, 05 August 2015 - 03:49 PM.


#10 OFFLINE   eldrijt

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Posted 06 August 2015 - 12:03 PM

I think several of you missed this part of my post. --"I have screwed up fingers so just cranking down the temperature with that slippery dial requires me to pull over. If the fan is highish the voice control doesn't understand me." Actually I understated the situation. After I pull over in the now sweaty car, it takes me several minutes to turn on climate, turn up fan  (since it defaults to auto), and press recirculate. No I'm not normal but why should we have to work around an AUTOMATIC system? Give me a heat dial, a fan switch and a compressor button just like a car from 1975.

 

The fact is I DO understand what's happening and I absolutely hate it. We seldom use heat in the winter (seat heaters) to maintain good range, yet Cmax turns on the heat when it's 95 outside! That's a completely stupid "feature". Anybody who defends this "feature" is a hopeless fan boy. If my set temperature was higher than indicated temperature then I would be a whiner. But I've seen the heat come on a full 8 degrees below indicated. And if I set a go time, assuming I had the 220 charger, the heat would come on and stay on till I got 5 miles down the road when indicated temperature rose enough to turn it off. Then I guess the a/c would have to work against the residual heat.

 

Jim


Edited by eldrijt, 06 August 2015 - 12:04 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   RubyMax

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 04:45 AM

Perhaps you would have been better off buying an AMC Gremlin, instead of a high tech 21st century vehicle. 

:doh:

 Give me a heat dial, a fan switch and a compressor button just like a car from 1975.

 



#12 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:46 AM

Perhaps you would have been better off buying an AMC Gremlin, instead of a high tech 21st century vehicle. 

:doh:

Hey, don't mess around with the first car I ever owned!

 

FWIW, on the Gremlin, the thermostat cycled the compressor depending on how cold you set it. Very efficient - it didn't blend hot air with cool air to achieve the desired temperature, which is what modern cars do I believe.

 

Back on topic, I always try and remember to set the car back to LO setting when I plug in. I forgot yesterday and realized when I saw only 27 on the battery that something was on - then I saw that the outside temperature was int he 60's and I had left mine on 72. So yup, something was on - the heater. I set it back to LO and it went to the normal 31 on the battery.

 

EDIT: My wife drives a 2014 VW. It has standard manual controls, not automatic HVAC.


Edited by stevedebi, 07 August 2015 - 06:47 AM.


#13 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 11:22 AM

Give me a heat dial, a fan switch and a compressor button just like a car from 1975.

 

 

The C-Max system has exactly those three buttons, switches and controls...

 

A rotary temp dial, with an up/down fan switch and the compressor on/off control button  :headscratch:

 

 

Maybe your eyes should be checked because you have clearly demonstrated an inability to notice them.

HERE'S A PICTURE FOR YOU JUST IN CASE :fool: I've even color coded them with arrows and text.Attached File  20150807_115133_003.jpg   75.95KB   2 downloads



#14 OFFLINE   jeromep

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Posted 14 August 2015 - 12:13 PM

We keep our Energi in a garage here in hot/humid Alabama so when I go somewhere the temperature shows 78 degrees. With the A/C set to anything above about 70 the damn heater comes on! I can see this massive power draw in the climate power graphic. Takes my range from 28 down to 20! A/C alone takes me to 24 which is fine. I have screwed up fingers so just cranking down the temperature with that slippery dial requires me to pull over. If the fan is highish the voice control doesn't understand me. So I have to keep the temperature at 68 which freezes me out. Or I turn climate off when I start the car and sweat for 4 minutes till the Cmax displayed temperature rises to outdoor temperature of 93 or so. Then I use voice to turn it on but usually recirc is off. If it's 80 and humid and it's set to 74 the heat comes on and stays on. Really an awful system especially for me.

 

What I want is 76 degrees, fan 3rd from highest, and recirc on. And of course NO HEAT when it's 95 outside! Can I pull the heater fuse?

 

Jim

 

After reading the responses posted after my post I wanted to go back, re-read your original post and attempt to understand exactly what is going on.

 

A couple of things now strike me as interesting, and based on some knowledge about home HVAC and electronic thermostats for household applications, I think I can see what is occuring.  If your garage is 78 degrees and your vehicle setpoint is 76 degrees, you are in that strange no-mans land that most automatic thermostats don't operate well in.  That is what I'm getting at.  Your typcal Honeywell fully automatic thermostat enforces a 4 degree difference between a heat setpoint and a cooling setpoint.  This is done to prevent HVAC ping-ponging, the situation where a HVAC system will cool a house to a certain temp, shut off cooling and then turn around and engage heating because it thinks it is too cool, heat the place up and then turn around and cool it down again.  This can easily occur if a thermostat doesn't have programming to keep a number of degrees seperation between heating and cooling temps.

 

With less than a 4 degree seperation between your garage ambient temp and your vehicle's auto climate set point, I can see the vehcile being "confused" and applying heat.  The 78 degrees in your garage may actually register as 74 inside the vehicle.  That would explain why the system is calling for heat when it is not necessary.  That is just my conjecture.

 

Additionally, what is your source of knowledge of your garage's ambient temperature?  Alcohol thermometer on the wall, a temp sensor that is part of a weather station, a temp sensor that is part of your garage door opener system?  All of these are valid possibilities, but measuring temperature with consumer grade products is going to be only moderately accurate at best.  If you have multiple temp sensors of multiple types in a space, and placed in multiple locations you could easily get different reading on each, even if they were all within a couple of degrees of each other.

 

I think several of you missed this part of my post. --"I have screwed up fingers so just cranking down the temperature with that slippery dial requires me to pull over. If the fan is highish the voice control doesn't understand me." Actually I understated the situation. After I pull over in the now sweaty car, it takes me several minutes to turn on climate, turn up fan  (since it defaults to auto), and press recirculate. No I'm not normal but why should we have to work around an AUTOMATIC system? Give me a heat dial, a fan switch and a compressor button just like a car from 1975.

 

The fact is I DO understand what's happening and I absolutely hate it. We seldom use heat in the winter (seat heaters) to maintain good range, yet Cmax turns on the heat when it's 95 outside! That's a completely stupid "feature". Anybody who defends this "feature" is a hopeless fan boy. If my set temperature was higher than indicated temperature then I would be a whiner. But I've seen the heat come on a full 8 degrees below indicated. And if I set a go time, assuming I had the 220 charger, the heat would come on and stay on till I got 5 miles down the road when indicated temperature rose enough to turn it off. Then I guess the a/c would have to work against the residual heat.

 

Jim

 

My grandmother had arthritis and all of the joints on her body were a mess, even her hands.  So, I do sympathize.  I must be warm blooded, but I tend to run my vehicle at one temperature all year long, and I choose 72.  Where I live, summers are hot, but very dry, so humidity and combating it is much less of an issue.  At 72, auto-climate does exactly what it needs to and I never experience the system calling for heat, even during early morning drives where outside ambient temperatures are quite moderate, 65-75 degrees.

 

I'm going to make another suggestion.  When leaving your garage press the max ac button.  The system will run the AC full up until you deselect that feature.  If you press Max ac again it returns the system to its previous operating mode.  If you are in max ac and press the auto button it will return the system to full auto.  I suspect that you won't have to run max ac long after leaving your garage to acomplish the goal of not running the heat and having the cabin be cool enough in the heat and humidity.

 

Additionally, since your hands have difficulty with the slick knobs on the climate control system, have you tried to use the touch screen instead to change settings?  If you use the touch screen, it is all button pushes.  All of the climate controls are duplicated on the touch screen.


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#15 OFFLINE   WheNRG

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:59 AM

I get aggravated with the CC also.  Lately with the hot temps here in Texas I precondition in the morning to 72°.  I usually have the air set to 74-75 in the car, so as soon as I hit start I've noticed that the heater comes on - even when It's 85° out.  It would be nice if there was a button for the electric heat like the A/C button to avoid this.  if it's not activated the heater doesn't come on. 

 

Also, when you turn the CC off I wish it would come back on with the same setting it was on when you turned it off.  In the winter if it is moderate out I will often drive to work in the morning with the CC off.  It then warms up a bit in the afternoon so I want vent.  When I turn it back on the AC kicks on and the blower is quite high, no matter what the setting was when I turned it off.  Very annoying. 



#16 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:42 AM

I get aggravated with the CC also.  Lately with the hot temps here in Texas I precondition in the morning to 72°.  I usually have the air set to 74-75 in the car, so as soon as I hit start I've noticed that the heater comes on - even when It's 85° out.  It would be nice if there was a button for the electric heat like the A/C button to avoid this.  if it's not activated the heater doesn't come on. 

 

Also, when you turn the CC off I wish it would come back on with the same setting it was on when you turned it off.  In the winter if it is moderate out I will often drive to work in the morning with the CC off.  It then warms up a bit in the afternoon so I want vent.  When I turn it back on the AC kicks on and the blower is quite high, no matter what the setting was when I turned it off.  Very annoying. 

What is your turn on procedure ?



#17 OFFLINE   Steven Bloomfield

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 07:14 AM

Well now I understand why my power usage was so high this morning. Outside temp was 68 but it had rained and in Florida that means a humid car. I have my CC set to 72 and saw energy usage spike as if the heater was on. This is my first car with automatic climate control...live and learn.

 

And thanks for the tip about voice control for setting the temp. I really need to practice using the voice commands more.



#18 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 07:42 AM

Well, its up to you.  Feel free to use the climate if the engine is running (no different than any other car once the engine is warmed up), but if you're running on battery and want to get somewhere on EV only then be frugal with it.

 

-=>Raja.










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