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HVB Long term best practices


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65 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 06:32 PM

Hi Rick,

 

To answer your questions, on #1 its said to be 14.5% from people with the SG, a little too low in my opinion, should be 20%.  An empty HVB is about 21.5% from what was said in posts.  On of my friends saw that the batteries drop out of balance the worst when the hybrid battery is 1/2 way down.  Something to keep in mind.

 

The top end is 4.10v per cell, 100% would be 4.20v.  As far as percentage I'd have to double check but I believe 4.1v is around 93%.  Limiting at 4.1v should help with heat voltage rise not to go over 4.2v, but heat is still not good for batteries hence why I said park in a garage or in the shade if outside would be best especially in the summer.

 

I agree that these batteries will last less in hot climates compared to colder climates.  It may be one of the reasons why Ford warranty for the battery is 8 years 100k miles in some areas and 10 years 150k miles in others.

 

One way around the charging is to program value charging to kick in at 3am so your car will be ready at 5:10am or there abouts from completely empty on 240v.  It would just be a habit instead of charging in the evening and having the battery 100% full for 10 hours before you leave, you could make it ready on departure using this feature.  Not sure how much difference this will make, 10 hours is not a long time at full charge but it could help over the years.  Plugged in 24/7 in my opinion would be worse.

 

-=>Raja.

During the week, I'm going to charge one of our Energis on the 110V charger, at least some of the time. In that way, it will top off just an hour or two before our start times. (I only have two outlets that will reach the cars outside & in the garage, on the same circuit, and charging two Energis at once on 110V blows the circuit breaker.) By rotating which car gets the 110V, I'll probably reduce battery stress a little and at the same time have both cars ready at the crack of dawn.

 

The Ford warranty, at 8 years/100k miles or 10 years/150k miles, is interesting and surprising. Here are typical discharge cycles versus depth-of-discharge for Lithium Ion batteries; most sources list something similar:

 

Depth of Discharge          Discharge Cycles until battery capacity = 70%

100% DoD                        300 – 500
50% DoD                          1,200 – 1,500
25% DoD                          2,000 – 2,500
10% DoD                          3,750 – 4,700
 
This chart is from the article I posted above.
 
Well. Even if a C-Max is used 6 days a week, for 15-20 miles, that's 300 discharges a year. Even at 50% DoD, we're talking 5 years to a big problem with range. In my experience with the 2003 Prius and 2008 Prius, no change in performance happened at all, the entire time I owned each car. We had the 2003 in the family until just recently. Granted, these were not plug-in cars but they still have similar batteries. And now we see Ford offering a warranty that covers more than 10 times the worst-case scenario above.
 
Also, from what I read, Nissan claims major improvements in battery chemistry in the coming year's model Leaf.
 
My assessment is that auto manufacturers have improved the chemistry behind their Li Ion batteries, and while we should use care in managing our HVBs, we may not have all that much to worry about.

Edited by P=E/t, 06 April 2015 - 06:33 PM.








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#22 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 06:43 PM

The thing about that table Rick, is that if they say 100% DoD is say 400 charges, and 10% DoD is 3750 to 4700 charges, 400 charges is about the same as 4000 with only 10% discharge.  Yes its not good to drain the battery 100%, but its OK in my opinion to drain it down to 25% charge left in it.  Using the battery 3 times, 100 down to 75, 75 down to 50, and 50 down to 25 and charging it back up to 100 once is going to be about the same as draining it from 100 down to 75 back up to 100 back down to 75 and back up to 100 and down to 75 and charging it 3 times.  

 

If fact if you look at 50% DoD and 10% Dod (since 100% DoD does some damage/not as good for the battery), you can see at 50% you get say 1350 cycles and at 10% you get 4225 cycles.  (picking the mid point on both).  But 50% Dod will go 5 times further than 10%, so 1350 x 5 is 6750 equivalent which is more than 4225 cycles at 10% Dod.  Same thing goes if you compare 25% DoD and 50% DoD, recharging the battery matters, its a finite amount.

 

The point is, since you don't go as far with shallow discharges, and since you charge the battery less often with deeper ones, as long as you don't drain it too deep its going to be a wash or maybe even better either way depending on the circumstances.

 

I agree 100% you're not going to notice anything with any hybrid car as it starts the engine when it wants to and you never know how much hybrid battery capacity you got in there.  I drove a Prius V this past weekend and to be honest it sucked - I hate the part where the engine just starts and you have no control even through the battery looks to be 2/3rds full and you're trying to feather the gas and creep along.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 06 April 2015 - 06:47 PM.


#23 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 07:08 PM

Yes Raja there were many times the Prius sent me into a lather because no matter what I did I couldn't feather the gas pedal and prevent the ICE coming on. Even drove barefoot sometimes.

Rick

Edited by P=E/t, 06 April 2015 - 07:09 PM.


#24 OFFLINE   engnrng

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 08:46 PM

The thing about that table Rick, is that if they say 100% DoD is say 400 charges, and 10% DoD is 3750 to 4700 charges, 400 charges is about the same as 4000 with only 10% discharge.  Yes its not good to drain the battery 100%, but its OK in my opinion to drain it down to 25% charge left in it.  Using the battery 3 times, 100 down to 75, 75 down to 50, and 50 down to 25 and charging it back up to 100 once is going to be about the same as draining it from 100 down to 75 back up to 100 back down to 75 and back up to 100 and down to 75 and charging it 3 times.  

 

If fact if you look at 50% DoD and 10% Dod (since 100% DoD does some damage/not as good for the battery), you can see at 50% you get say 1350 cycles and at 10% you get 4225 cycles.  (picking the mid point on both).  But 50% Dod will go 5 times further than 10%, so 1350 x 5 is 6750 equivalent which is more than 4225 cycles at 10% Dod.  Same thing goes if you compare 25% DoD and 50% DoD, recharging the battery matters, its a finite amount.

 

The point is, since you don't go as far with shallow discharges, and since you charge the battery less often with deeper ones, as long as you don't drain it too deep its going to be a wash or maybe even better either way depending on the circumstances.

 

I agree 100% you're not going to notice anything with any hybrid car as it starts the engine when it wants to and you never know how much hybrid battery capacity you got in there.  I drove a Prius V this past weekend and to be honest it sucked - I hate the part where the engine just starts and you have no control even through the battery looks to be 2/3rds full and you're trying to feather the gas and creep along.

 

-=>Raja.

Raja, you seem to be showing your ignorance and bias at the same time.  Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.  Just confess that you have not invested any time or thoughtful intelligence in understanding the Prius hybrid system and leave it at that.  The CMAX hybrid works pretty much the same, so I guess you think the CMAX hybrid sucks too.  I was always able to watch SOC on my Prius, don't know why yours wasn't working - or maybe you did not look at the manual.  Hundreds or thousands of times, I maxed out the battery SOC (I have several miles downhill every morning), and other hundreds I took it down to 1 bar (going up that same hill on the way home).  FYI:  the Prius battery management system kept the battery between 20% and 80%, with most of the time spent near 60%.   I know many Prius owners who exceeded 50 mpg for over 200,000 miles with no degradation in either the battery or the ICE.  Not too shabby. 

 

For my CMAX, I estimate that I already have over 300 discharge/charge cycles going from full charge to low hybrid battery level most times, coming up on 8000 miles.  I figure I will consume about 500 cycles per year.  At this rate, to get to 150,000 miles, I will probably have nearly 6000 discharge/charge cycles as deep  and as high as the car is programmed to allow by the time I reach 150,000 miles.  But this table tells me I could go through a half a dozen battery packs?  Scary thought, even with warranty coverage.  I have been searching for articles on L'ion battery pack life of the type in our CMAX, not too successfully.  I estimate that Gary has nearly 1000 cycles, not sure how deep though.  In my recollection Gary has seen little or no degradation in his battery capacity/range, although the table says he should be down to about 70% by now.  I am going to sleep well by concluding for now that the table does not apply to the CMAX battery.  By the way, and this is not scientific, I have Makita L'ion powered tools about 10 years old, probably only a few hundred cycles though, and they seem to be as strong and long lasting as when they were new.  Their charger also uses air cooled battery management. 

 

For now, to maximize longevity, I am going to focus on temperature, plan to program my SGII this weekend to display battery temp so I can watch as I drive on highway, for example.  Where is the intake for the cooling system - under the back seat?  I wonder what a bit of thermal mass would do?  Will let you know.

 

One last thought for tonight:  My Prius ICE still had perfect compression measurements at 150,000 miles.  I expect that the CMAX ICE will take me over a million miles, since I expect that it is working less than 20% of the time.  Given that I am 60 years old, this may be the last car I own, and I expect it to be middle aged at half a million miles!  These cars may be multi-generational if families own them until the ICE needs a valve or ring job.  I believe the automotive press has failed to realize that a decade ago, we entered an advanced era of engine longevity...  


Edited by engnrng, 06 April 2015 - 10:50 PM.


#25 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 09:28 PM

Just going to bed, but in short the Cmax hybrid does suck also, I would never buy it having the Energi option is a much much better solution.  Think of it this way, with the energi you can go all winter long without using a drop of fuel, maybe even years if you stay local and get many miles.  Maybe the hybird can get 50 mpg, maybe, if you drive it slow, but the Energi can raise that bar to 999.9 mpg, depending on how you like to drive it. 

 

The closest Prius to that now is the plug in version that goes 11 miles on plug power (rated), but there isn't as much you can do with that short range, in fact I wish the Cmax was more but I can do very well with "about" 30 miles range depending on the conditions.

 

-=>Raja.



#26 OFFLINE   engnrng

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Posted 06 April 2015 - 11:01 PM

Just going to bed, but in short the Cmax hybrid does suck also, I would never buy it having the Energi option is a much much better solution.  Think of it this way, with the energi you can go all winter long without using a drop of fuel, maybe even years if you stay local and get many miles.  Maybe the hybird can get 50 mpg, maybe, if you drive it slow, but the Energi can raise that bar to 999.9 mpg, depending on how you like to drive it. 

 

The closest Prius to that now is the plug in version that goes 11 miles on plug power (rated), but there isn't as much you can do with that short range, in fact I wish the Cmax was more but I can do very well with "about" 30 miles range depending on the conditions.

 

-=>Raja.

My Prius was very cool for 10 years.  My CMax is cooler, I agree.  Of the four main systems in the CMAX: ICE, Battery, Inverter, Electric MG's, which do you think has the shortest life before rebuild/replace?  Almost certainly not the ICE....



#27 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 06:53 AM

That would be the traction battery.  It will lose range and be noticeable over time.  It has happened to some people already.  The 12v battery should last a very long time, longer than a standard ICE car because it doesn't need to crank the engine.  It will decay at the same rate as other ice 12v batteries, but there is less current demand from it.

 

The engine should last a very long time, especially for people who drive EV only.  You're just carting it around most of the time unused.  For me I use it in the summer months and cart it around in the winter.  I'm about 50/50 engine miles vs EV miles, so that means it should probably last twice as long before service is needed.  I have a Ford Ranger 1998 with 75k miles (I only use it for things I need it for and use the car for anything else), I haven't had to do anything to that trucks's engine but change the oil, change the belt at some point and change the thermostat.  

 

Edit:  I just looked at my Ford Ranger service spreadsheet:

 

I changed the gas filter and spark plugs at 72505 miles, not because I had to but preventative maintenance.

The AC failed prematurely at 32k miles but was fixed under warranty.

My original battery lasted until 56090 miles, May 2011.  The replacement battery I had to replace again in January of this year, only 3 years 8 months later due to me running a radio glove heater for a test and forgetting it ON overnight draining the 12v battery down to 4 volts.  It never had good capacity after that even though it was starting the truck no problem after recharging it.  I took it to Ford and they replaced it prorated for $10 since it was 8 months over the 3 year 100% replacement warranty.

I never replaced the air filter, just cleaned it and put it back at 50 and 57k miles, I should check it again next oil change.

Other than that its brake jobs and tires replaced once (firestone recall) and rotated several times.

 

The inverter and MG should last quite a long time, electric motors are really good especially the brushless type.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 07 April 2015 - 07:04 AM.


#28 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:25 AM

 

 

At highway speeds - 65 mph - what cabin temp is needed to keep the internal temp of the HVB under 86 F? 

 

If the outside temp is warmish, say in the 70's, you're never going to keep the traction battery below 86F, its going to warm up from usage, by the end of your trip to around 95F.  If the temp is hotter outside and your sun is baking in the car, you can be over 86F on the battery just sitting in the hot sun.  

 

To give you some examples, last July 12, outside temperature of 75F, HVB temperature 78F.

Take a car ride, 6 miles into the trip you're at 86F, 10 miles into the trip you're at 91.4F and at the end of 17 miles you're at 95F HVB temp.

 

Another trip July 7th, outside temperature 82.4F, HVB temperature 93.2F

Take a car ride, 2 miles into the trip you're at 95F, 5 miles into it you're at 96.8, and at the end of 8 miles you're still at 96.8F, the higher it goes, the slower it goes up and at some point cooling seems to hold it more steady.

 

On November 9th, outside temperature of 35.6F, HVB temperature of 55.4F.  By the end of a trip that used up the whole HVB (voltage down to 269.88v and ran the ICE to make up for it, the HVB temperature was at 73.4F

 

So when its warm out, you're going to go over 86F with the HVB fairly easily, though Ford allows this, the threshold limit is higher.  As far as the AC goes, I'd say use it for when you need it for your comfort.  The car does use the cooler air from the AC when running to help offset the additional load on the battery to run the AC.  More load increases the battery temperature, so there is some point where it will help more than less, I'm not sure exactly where that point is.  Of course if you're parked and plugged in, AC preconditioning the car is a very good idea.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 07 April 2015 - 07:45 AM.


#29 OFFLINE   tr7driver

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:47 AM

Will keeping the cover that is supposed to hide things in the back of the car closed impact the battery temperature?



#30 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:53 AM

Will keeping the cover that is supposed to hide things in the back of the car closed impact the battery temperature?

 

Nope! It's vented to the cars interior and has an exhaust vent with a fan that runs while charging.


Edited by drdiesel1, 07 April 2015 - 07:55 AM.


#31 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:55 AM

I don't know 100%, but I do keep mine closed when its not removed to haul something.  I would expect that closing it will prevent direct sunlight from hitting on the deck which is just over the HVB.  The car's internal temp is going to rise anyways, but would make sense not to have direct sunlight on the deck as well.  Think about when you're sitting in the house and the sunlight hits you arm through the window, you can feel the additional heat.  Its not going to be much, tinting the windows will help alot more, especially for those in hot climates.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 07 April 2015 - 07:56 AM.


#32 OFFLINE   P=E/t

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 09:30 AM

It's hard to believe no one on such a generally tech-savvy forum has yet seen the obvious solution to high HVB temperatures:
 
Beer.
 
Beer is the solution for so very many things. In this application, mind you, I'm not talking about actually drinking it. For drinking beer, I myself prefer an IPA at "cellar temperature," meaning around 55 degrees F. Or perhaps a stout when I'm in the proper mood. And lagers are fine, and can be served colder--but they must be interesting lagers.
 
No, in our C-Max Energi battery-cooling application I'm talking about going out and buying two or three cases of mass-produced American pabulum, like Budweiser or even (gasp!) Coors Light. And then chilling them down to 32.000001 degrees F, which is, so I'm told, the temperature these beers tend to be consumed at.
 
And then just sticking the three cases of cold mass-produced watery beer right there on top of the HVB and closing the retractable cover.
That should drop the HVB temperature enough to ease our EV-range-anxious minds a little. And then when we plug in at night, we simply pop the beer in the fridge for "pre-conditioning."
 
Just never, ever open one ....
 
Rick

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#33 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 03:50 PM

Raja, you seem to be showing your ignorance and bias at the same time.  Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it bad.  Just confess that you have not invested any time or thoughtful intelligence in understanding the Prius hybrid system and leave it at that.  The CMAX hybrid works pretty much the same, so I guess you think the CMAX hybrid sucks too.  I was always able to watch SOC on my Prius, don't know why yours wasn't working - or maybe you did not look at the manual.  Hundreds or thousands of times, I maxed out the battery SOC (I have several miles downhill every morning), and other hundreds I took it down to 1 bar (going up that same hill on the way home).  FYI:  the Prius battery management system kept the battery between 20% and 80%, with most of the time spent near 60%.   I know many Prius owners who exceeded 50 mpg for over 200,000 miles with no degradation in either the battery or the ICE.  Not too shabby. 

 

For my CMAX, I estimate that I already have over 300 discharge/charge cycles going from full charge to low hybrid battery level most times, coming up on 8000 miles.  I figure I will consume about 500 cycles per year.  At this rate, to get to 150,000 miles, I will probably have nearly 6000 discharge/charge cycles as deep  and as high as the car is programmed to allow by the time I reach 150,000 miles.  But this table tells me I could go through a half a dozen battery packs?  Scary thought, even with warranty coverage.  I have been searching for articles on L'ion battery pack life of the type in our CMAX, not too successfully.  I estimate that Gary has nearly 1000 cycles, not sure how deep though.  In my recollection Gary has seen little or no degradation in his battery capacity/range, although the table says he should be down to about 70% by now.  I am going to sleep well by concluding for now that the table does not apply to the CMAX battery.  By the way, and this is not scientific, I have Makita L'ion powered tools about 10 years old, probably only a few hundred cycles though, and they seem to be as strong and long lasting as when they were new.  Their charger also uses air cooled battery management. 

 

 

I have had no degradation in my HV Battery since new (two years ago) and 9700 miles. I drain my battery almost every charge from 98.9% - 100% more often than most on this board. When I Supercharge to a range of the maximum of a 44 mile estimated range, many times I go 35 miles on that charge and other charges just after. It seems that balancing the battery with Supercharging has a battery recalibration effect, and keeps the batery like new.  My battery also gets real hot, but I've never hit the 113F which EV will stop happening. I simply precondition with the A/C during charging when I see that much heat in the battery.

 

Gary


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#34 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 04:21 PM

That's good to hear Gary, keep that up and would be interesting to see if any difference down the road.  You battery now is still "newish", too early to tell.  Since you spend alot of time rolling in N, its safe to say you get about 30% more range on average than the usual person.  So at 9700 miles minus your ice miles, you've probably used the battery an equivalent of around 6500 miles.

 

You said you start out between 98.9 to 100% due to supercharging, how deep do you drain it?  You don't use gas so you must stop somewhere before you run out, otherwise you would be using a little gas every time which wouldn't agree with your style.  What's the average low side you get to before you stop to recharge and continue on your trip?

 

Out of curiosity, how hot does your battery get to? 

 

-=>Raja.



#35 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 05:34 PM

That's good to hear Gary, keep that up and would be interesting to see if any difference down the road.  You battery now is still "newish", too early to tell.  Since you spend alot of time rolling in N, its safe to say you get about 30% more range on average than the usual person.  So at 9700 miles minus your ice miles, you've probably used the battery an equivalent of around 6500 miles.

 

You said you start out between 98.9 to 100% due to supercharging, how deep do you drain it?  You don't use gas so you must stop somewhere before you run out, otherwise you would be using a little gas every time which wouldn't agree with your style.  What's the average low side you get to before you stop to recharge and continue on your trip?

 

Out of curiosity, how hot does your battery get to? 

 

-=>Raja.

 

You've got to be kidding me? You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

Gary



#36 OFFLINE   engnrng

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:48 PM

That would be the traction battery.  It will lose range and be noticeable over time.  It has happened to some people already.  The 12v battery should last a very long time, longer than a standard ICE car because it doesn't need to crank the engine.  It will decay at the same rate as other ice 12v batteries, but there is less current demand from it.

 

The engine should last a very long time, especially for people who drive EV only.  You're just carting it around most of the time unused.  For me I use it in the summer months and cart it around in the winter.  I'm about 50/50 engine miles vs EV miles, so that means it should probably last twice as long before service is needed.  I have a Ford Ranger 1998 with 75k miles (I only use it for things I need it for and use the car for anything else), I haven't had to do anything to that trucks's engine but change the oil, change the belt at some point and change the thermostat.  

 

Edit:  I just looked at my Ford Ranger service spreadsheet:

 

I changed the gas filter and spark plugs at 72505 miles, not because I had to but preventative maintenance.

The AC failed prematurely at 32k miles but was fixed under warranty.

My original battery lasted until 56090 miles, May 2011.  The replacement battery I had to replace again in January of this year, only 3 years 8 months later due to me running a radio glove heater for a test and forgetting it ON overnight draining the 12v battery down to 4 volts.  It never had good capacity after that even though it was starting the truck no problem after recharging it.  I took it to Ford and they replaced it prorated for $10 since it was 8 months over the 3 year 100% replacement warranty.

I never replaced the air filter, just cleaned it and put it back at 50 and 57k miles, I should check it again next oil change.

Other than that its brake jobs and tires replaced once (firestone recall) and rotated several times.

 

The inverter and MG should last quite a long time, electric motors are really good especially the brushless type.

 

-=>Raja.

Sorry, when I talk about Battery on a Plug-in Hybrid forum and ask a question about major components that are unique to a plug-in hybrid, I do not mean the 12V battery that every car has.  Sorry if that was not clear in the context of inverters and electric motors.  I am not at all interested in something that only costs $100 to replace.  My entire question has to do with the CMAX being a million mile vehicle and what major components might need rebuild or replacement.  On a conventional car, I normally think about the life of the engine, transmission, and drive axle when looking at longevity.  I am also expecting that a well maintained conventional car these days should go well over 200,000 miles before a rebuild of the engine, transmission, or axle is needed.  I know from my own experience that a pure hybrid powertrain ought to last double that, or 400,000 miles, with a possibility of rebuilding the battery (hybrid traction battery!) around 300,000 to 350,000 miles (Toyota engineers by 2008 had life tested their Prius Gen 2 battery and saw some degradation by 350,000 miles). 

 

Now, looking at the Energi cars, and looking at about 20% ICE and 80% EV (what I expect my average usage to be, as well as a few others on this forum) I have not been able to find much discussion or engineering data regarding expected life of the inverter (no moving parts, what degrades over time?), the electric motors (there ought to be studies - they are brushless, but what degrades?  bearings? insulation? is there fatigue in the housings and rotors?), the gasoline engine - is my expectation of a million miles valid? and the TRACTION battery.  We have one article that puts the life of a fully utilized TRACTION battery at 1000 cycles with 30% degradation, or 20,000 EV miles for my CMAX (maybe 30,000 EV miles if you are Gary!), but I strongly doubt the validity of that article.  What will affect the life of that Battery?  If temp is important, have Ford engineers done enough homework to set the temp safeguards, charge/discharge rates, etc?  If they allow the Battery to get to 113 degrees before protecting it yet the world expert says 86 degrees maximum - should we try to hack the Ford settings and correct them?  Should I avoid using the Level 2 charger (only used one 3 times so far, all on cool days)?  Should I go into EV Later when climbing or rolling down a long steep hill?  And, my original question:  since the battery cooling system gets its air flow from the cabin, what does the cabin air temp need to be to keep the battery temp under 86 degrees (outside temp does not matter much)? 



#37 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:57 PM

Engnrng:

 

You asked:

 

 

 

Of the four main systems in the CMAX: ICE, Battery, Inverter, Electric MG's, which do you think has the shortest life before rebuild/replace?  Almost certainly not the ICE....

 

Sorry, didn't the first 2 paragraphs not answer your question above?  Wait for other opinions too..

 

-=>Raja.



#38 OFFLINE   engnrng

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 07:58 PM

If the outside temp is warmish, say in the 70's, you're never going to keep the traction battery below 86F, its going to warm up from usage, by the end of your trip to around 95F.  If the temp is hotter outside and your sun is baking in the car, you can be over 86F on the battery just sitting in the hot sun.  

 

To give you some examples, last July 12, outside temperature of 75F, HVB temperature 78F.

Take a car ride, 6 miles into the trip you're at 86F, 10 miles into the trip you're at 91.4F and at the end of 17 miles you're at 95F HVB temp.

 

Another trip July 7th, outside temperature 82.4F, HVB temperature 93.2F

Take a car ride, 2 miles into the trip you're at 95F, 5 miles into it you're at 96.8, and at the end of 8 miles you're still at 96.8F, the higher it goes, the slower it goes up and at some point cooling seems to hold it more steady.

 

On November 9th, outside temperature of 35.6F, HVB temperature of 55.4F.  By the end of a trip that used up the whole HVB (voltage down to 269.88v and ran the ICE to make up for it, the HVB temperature was at 73.4F

 

So when its warm out, you're going to go over 86F with the HVB fairly easily, though Ford allows this, the threshold limit is higher.  As far as the AC goes, I'd say use it for when you need it for your comfort.  The car does use the cooler air from the AC when running to help offset the additional load on the battery to run the AC.  More load increases the battery temperature, so there is some point where it will help more than less, I'm not sure exactly where that point is.  Of course if you're parked and plugged in, AC preconditioning the car is a very good idea.

 

-=>Raja.

How did you take these measurements?  Where was the temp probe located?  Were you measuring the hottest cells, average cells, center cells?  What temp did you have the cabin A/C set to?  How much of a difference does the outside air temp make?  The cabin air temp is far more important.



#39 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:07 PM

ODB II sensor data from the car, its logged into an xcell spreadsheet with all the parameters.  If you want to look at one of those xcell files, pm me your email and I can forward you a copy.

 

-=>Raja.



#40 OFFLINE   engnrng

engnrng

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Posted 07 April 2015 - 08:07 PM

Engnrng:

 

You asked:

 

 

Sorry, didn't the first 2 paragraphs not answer your question above?  Wait for other opinions too..

 

-=>Raja.

I was trying to start a discussion of factors that will affect the life of those components.  Probably did not phrase it well.  The first sentence of your post answered the question I asked, but there was no information there.  I agree - wait to hear the other technical types weigh in also.  This post you started is about HVB long term practices.  Opinions and information about a Ford Ranger and 12V batteries do not seem to me to add anything to this topic.  I found your temperature data very interesting, asked some questions about that.










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