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Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


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Oil Maintenance Mode notice from Ford


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56 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:45 PM

I am completely familiar with PCV. What is your point?







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#22 OFFLINE   GS Dave

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 07:47 AM

:reading:

 

We need the popcorn eating emoticon.


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#23 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 08:29 AM

Absolutely need the popcorn: http://fordcmaxenerg...pcorn#entry3751

Read my post #14 in that thread.

#24 OFFLINE   GS Dave

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 09:12 AM

Was thinking of the one like this....

 

 

Attached Files



#25 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 11:01 AM

Yup, got one another site that is animated and shows the little guy stuffing the popcorn in his mouth. I actually tried to import that one into this site but no joy on that effort.



#26 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 17 February 2014 - 03:32 PM

I suppose a pressurized tank would be a different beast and would require reinforcement. I just can't explain why our tank has larger capacity.


Just a quick word on "pressurized" in the tank. Our cars have the ability withstand positive pressure but they are not designed, nor is there any mechanism, to create and maintain positive pressure in the fuel tank. Much of the time the tank pressure is equal to outside atmospheric pressure. When fuel is being burned the tank actually has slight negative pressure to suck in the displacement air required to prevent the tank from collapsing.

Edited by Don, 17 February 2014 - 03:34 PM.


#27 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:12 AM

Just a quick word on "pressurized" in the tank. Our cars have the ability withstand positive pressure but they are not designed, nor is there any mechanism, to create and maintain positive pressure in the fuel tank. Much of the time the tank pressure is equal to outside atmospheric pressure. When fuel is being burned the tank actually has slight negative pressure to suck in the displacement air required to prevent the tank from collapsing.

 

 

You must have missed the video On Refueling the C-Max Energi.

 

http://owner.ford.co...el=C-MAX Energi

 

Gary


Edited by GaryG, 18 February 2014 - 11:15 AM.


#28 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:46 AM

I am guessing you are referring to the Fuel filling video? If so I have seen it, thanks. Your link is not working for me. The video says it is a pressurized system and that it MAY take up to a certain amount of time to depressurize. It does not say that it will always be under pressure. Their language "is a pressured system" may be misleading. My interpretation is that the system can be under pressure but not necessarily always under pressure. As I said previously the intent is to maintain a sealed system to prevent vapor loss. This is done with the seal on the filler flap and since the flap is spring loaded it is like a one way valve. The seal holds integrity, without positive pressure, because of the spring force. If pressure builds up in the tank the one way valve design makes for a "pressurized" system.

To convince me that there is an active system, to create and sustain positive pressure, I would need to see evidence of components that do so. As I have said, several times, if positive pressure is required to maintain the seal, then a pump and or pressure reservoir would be needed to maintain the positive pressure while the car is sitting. If the car is sitting, say several weeks, and outside pressure continues to rise and fall something would have to be active to maintain the positive pressure. If it were a pump it would drain the battery in no time. If it were a pressure reservoir then it would have to be very large or have very high pressure to account for extended period of non-use and battery would still be needed to activate any valves to control the pressure . Where is the pump and or reservoir?

These systems must be designed to be fail safe. The EPA requires that vapor not escape the tank under all circumstances. The EPA does not give any excuses (the battery went dead so the positive pressure failed and allowed vapor to escape).

Edited by Don, 18 February 2014 - 11:49 AM.


#29 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 11:54 AM

See Fuel Systems Hardware on page 30:  http://www.motorcraf...DSM1302_HEV.pdf


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#30 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:08 PM

fotomoto-thanks for that. As I suspected no components to actively create and sustain positive pressure.


o Uses a structurally improved steel fuel tank
o Tank pressure relief at -2.5 psi and 5.5 psi
o Requires an electric refueling system to relieve the pressure in the tank
o Uses traditional Canister Purge Valve (CPV)
o Uses High Pressure Fuel Tank Pressure Transducer (HPFTPT)
o Uses Fuel Tank Isolation Valve (FTIV) in place of Vapor Blocking Valve (VBV)
o FTIV de-energized state is closed
o When FTIV is closed, it splits the evap system into two separately diagnosable system – the "fuel tank side" and the "fresh air side

The pressure relief designed for negative and positive psi is very telling. Apparently they are concerned that the one way flapper valve I described can get stuck and they fail safe by providing a separate valve to accommodate a negative pressure situation. The "electric refueling system to relieve the pressure" is a solenoid actuated latch and or valve. The fail safe is that when our battery is dead we have a manual override (see the owners manual on that). Again, just because there is a system for pressure release does not mean the system is always under pressure. The only air/vapor pump, that may be in the system, is a vacuum pump used only for diagnostics but it is not used to create and sustain positive pressure.

Edited by Don, 18 February 2014 - 01:32 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:10 PM

From page 50 of the same reference link above: 

 

Refueling Process:
Customer presses “refuel button”

Signal is sent from BCM to PCM
PCM opens FTIV & reads FTPT
PC
M sends cluster message “Please wait to refuel”
Once fuel pressure is relieved, PCM unlocks fuel door solenoid. PCM sends cluster message “Ready to Refuel”
Customer dispenses fuel
Customer closes fuel door
PCM recognizes closed fuel door by switch state
FTIV closes 


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#32 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 12:17 PM

Yes, everything in place to handle a positive pressure situation but nothing to actively create and sustain positive pressure. I.E. "once fuel pressure is relieved" could be a zero time interval. Great document, BTW, and should close the door on the functionality.

Edited by Don, 18 February 2014 - 12:19 PM.


#33 OFFLINE   GaryG

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:13 PM

Yes, everything in place to handle a positive pressure situation but nothing to actively create and sustain positive pressure. I.E. "once fuel pressure is relieved" could be a zero time interval. Great document, BTW, and should close the door on the functionality.

 

It would make no sense to pump pressure in the fuel tank. I think the goal here is to just seal the tank until refilling, and clean the fuel vapors prior to opening the fuel door. The FFM waiting up to 18 months to kick-in is much longer than I expect E10 to last before going stale and causing engine damage. The sealed tank must be why Ford set this long time limit. Of course a sealed tank also prevents fuel vapors from leaving the tank while some of us go long distances before allowing the engine to run.

 

Max, here is another patent to look at: https://www.google.c...ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA

 

Gary


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#34 OFFLINE   ITFlyer

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:21 AM

This forum is incredible. Never before have I been a member of a forum where anyone who tries to postulate their opinion or help others gain knowledge about a topic is instantly attacked, and every topic degenerates into a juvenile screaming match.

 

The Ford engineer responsible for designing the system could very well come post a message on here, and he would be shouted down for being an idiot because it's not what various people believe their car is doing, based on their very limited knowledge and uninformed postulations.

 

The fact is, Ford engineers designed the system to work a specific way for a very good reason, based upon millions of dollars and hundreds of man-years of R&D. Just because you don't like the fact that your engine is running and using gas in the winter doesn't mean you are right and the Ford engineer is an idiot. You want to disagree? Go to school, become a P.Eng,, get a job with Ford, learn the systems and the engineering behind them, and THEN state your INFORMED opinion.

 

Grow up, people!

 


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#35 OFFLINE   Amy Dauterman St Pierre

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 02:35 PM

OK, my post is on topic... I've had this Engine Oil Maintenance light come on at least 3 times in the last two months. What is concerning to me is that in this mode, my car experiences a revving of the engine when I press on the accelerator but I don't get much acceleration. This is very concerning to me. Are other people experiencing this? I'm also of the mindset.... a new car should not have a maintenance light coming on every two weeks. Are others experiencing this as often? Thoughts?



#36 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:46 PM

I run my engine at least once a week in my daily use and haven't seen that mode, but I can believe it is annoying when it shows up.

#37 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 05:57 PM

OK, my post is on topic... I've had this Engine Oil Maintenance light come on at least 3 times in the last two months. What is concerning to me is that in this mode, my car experiences a revving of the engine when I press on the accelerator but I don't get much acceleration. This is very concerning to me. Are other people experiencing this? I'm also of the mindset.... a new car should not have a maintenance light coming on every two weeks. Are others experiencing this as often? Thoughts?


As I understand it OMM comes on more often if you run the ICE for short time intervals frequently. Do you run the ICE very often?

Edited by Don, 07 March 2014 - 05:59 PM.


#38 OFFLINE   viajero

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 06:59 PM

This forum is incredible. Never before have I been a member of a forum where anyone who tries to postulate their opinion or help others gain knowledge about a topic is instantly attacked, and every topic degenerates into a juvenile screaming match.

 

Actually there are only a few people on a few threads who get into name-calling arguments.  Most of the time I think the C-Max forum is rather civil and level-headed, especially in comparison to the average level of dialog on the internet.



#39 OFFLINE   honemch

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:04 AM

OK, my post is on topic... I've had this Engine Oil Maintenance light come on at least 3 times in the last two months. What is concerning to me is that in this mode, my car experiences a revving of the engine when I press on the accelerator but I don't get much acceleration. This is very concerning to me. Are other people experiencing this? I'm also of the mindset.... a new car should not have a maintenance light coming on every two weeks. Are others experiencing this as often? Thoughts?


I believe the revving with little acceleration is normal. I can remember reading in the owners manual about how the ICE can sometimes sound likes it's lugging or revving and to not be alarmed. The car doesn't have a conventional transmission and does not have gears. The cars computer dictates the speed vs RPM by changing the speed of one of the motors.

#40 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 04:11 AM

The revving is the specific thing newbies don't like about an eCVT. They find it disturbing because the sound of the engine isn't increasing with the speed of the car but just stays high. The engine runs at the best speed to generate the output it needs to move the car and actually provides better accelleration because all the power of the drivetrain is available at any speed.








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