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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Oil Maintenance Mode notice from Ford


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56 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:18 PM

Feb 12 2014 4615 -Hybrid Energi - Oil Maintenance Mode

Some 2013-2014 C-MAX and Fusion Energi vehicles may display "oil Maintenance" on the message center, which should not be confused with the oil change monitor. When in this mode the gas engine will run continuously and electric-only operation is not available. This feature maintains oil quality by removing fuel and water from the oil that can accumulate when the vehicle is used primarily for short trips and thus not running the engine at normal operating temperature for adequate time. To complete and exit the oil maintenance cycle, the gas engine must be operated continuously at adequate temperature to remove moisture. A drive of approximately 15 minutes is normally required, however additional drive time may be needed in very cold temperatures. Refer to the Owner Guide for additional details. 


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#2 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:26 PM

Those that get OMM early on in their ownership should consider that the vehicles, when shipped, sometimes go through a lot of climate changes and are shipped with empty tanks. Under certain climate change conditions a large amount of condensation can accumulate in the fuel tank and trigger the sensor to put it into OMM. This may not happen immediately but it can happen within the first couple of fill ups.



#3 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:37 PM

Those that get OMM early on in their ownership should consider that the vehicles, when shipped, sometimes go through a lot of climate changes and are shipped with empty tanks. Under certain climate change conditions a large amount of condensation can accumulate in the fuel tank and trigger the sensor to put it into OMM. This may not happen immediately but it can happen within the first couple of fill ups.

These cars are run at the factory and shipped with oil, gas and coolant.

 

What would the gas tank have to do with OMM ????????????? :drop:

Please refrain from posting convoluted misinformation pertaining to OMM and confusing it with water in the gas tank  :doh: OMM is for condensation buildup from short trips and possible fuel contamination from fuel enrichment during cold vehicle operation. If you don't run the engine long enough to reach normal; operating temps, OMM will active to reduce any oil contaminates by running the engine until it's been cycled long enough to evaporate anything in the oil.   :shift: 


Edited by drdiesel1, 13 February 2014 - 05:43 PM.

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#4 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 05:58 PM

Back to your contentious splitting of hairs again, huh.. The cars have very little gas in the tank and most would consider less than a gallon of gas in the tank to be an empty tank.

 

The statement from Ford that OMM removes fuel and water resulting from short trips should tell you a lot why water in the fuel comes into play. If fuel can make it past the rings, valve guides, etc. the water in the fuel takes the same path into the crankcase.

 

When a car is exposed to conditions that would cause condensation in the tank the same conditions cause condensation in most other cavities including the crankcase. It is very common to make measurements in one area and have derivative conclusions about what is happening in other areas. Perhaps you should look into some training in tribology before you accuse others of posting "convoluted misinformation".

 

Also,  a very important part of OMM that nobody has mentioned yet is that it is very much about keeping the ICE properly lubricated. When an engine sits long enough the surfaces, most importantly contact surfaces, become dry. Uncoated surfaces succumb to galling and corrosion.


Edited by Don, 13 February 2014 - 07:41 PM.

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#5 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 11:27 PM

Back to your contentious splitting of hairs again, huh.. The cars have very little gas in the tank and most would consider less than a gallon of gas in the tank to be an empty tank.

 

The statement from Ford that OMM removes fuel and water resulting from short trips should tell you a lot why water in the fuel comes into play. If fuel can make it past the rings, valve guides, etc. the water in the fuel takes the same path into the crankcase.

 

When a car is exposed to conditions that would cause condensation in the tank the same conditions cause condensation in most other cavities including the crankcase. It is very common to make measurements in one area and have derivative conclusions about what is happening in other areas. Perhaps you should look into some training in tribology before you accuse others of posting "convoluted misinformation".

 

Also,  a very important part of OMM that nobody has mentioned yet is that it is very much about keeping the ICE properly lubricated. When an engine sits long enough the surfaces, most importantly contact surfaces, become dry. Uncoated surfaces succumb to galling and corrosion.

Unfortunately, you have no clue and continue to post misinformed statements as facts.

 

OMM has nothing to do with water in the fuel. Today's fuel systems are sealed. Nothing will enter the tank during shipping, storage or any other mystery method. Only way is if it's pumped into the tank during fueling and it still would have ZERO to do with OMM.  Stop post you uneducated idea's as facts.



#6 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:11 AM

Unfortunately, you have no clue and continue to post misinformed statements as facts.
 
OMM has nothing to do with water in the fuel. Today's fuel systems are sealed. Nothing will enter the tank during shipping, storage or any other mystery method. Only way is if it's pumped into the tank during fueling and it still would have ZERO to do with OMM.  Stop post you uneducated idea's as facts.


How unfortunate for you to continue on the path of ignorance. Do a simple search and you will find fact after fact on condensation (the major source of how water gets into to gas) in fuel tanks. I doubt you will be able to read and understand this, but try: http://voices.yahoo....nk-4124781.html

Our gas tanks are not hermetically sealed and air (laden with water vapor) enters and vents as outside vs inside pressure changes. The Energi, with its cap less filler, has a weak little flap that is does a much poorer job of "sealing" vs other cars that have a screw in cap with gasket. Understand a sealed tank could not work. If the tank were sealed you would create a vacuum in the tank as gasoline levels decrease. If there were a vacuum the fuel pump would not be able to overcome the pressure difference and pump fuel. When the gasoline level in the tank goes down an equal amount of air (often laden with moisture) is introduced to prevent a vacuum situation. No mystery to the majority of the public, just a mystery to the ignorant :hysterical3:.
 


Edited by Don, 14 February 2014 - 08:27 AM.


#7 OFFLINE   fotomoto

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 09:35 AM

Folks lets keep our discussions civil.  PLEASE.


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#8 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 11:38 AM

The Energi uses a pressurized fuel tank which would make it very difficult for any moisture to get in, other than the gas itself.



#9 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:20 PM

Nice article. I can't say that I have ever had a water problem in my tank,but the article was interesting.

The Prius (at least my early one) solves the problem with a flexible bladder that grows and shrinks with the amount of fuel, so there is no need to vent the tank directly.

The Energi pressurizes the tank to control emissions but the Hybrid does not. I am not sure if that helps water in the tank or not but it may explain why our tank is rated 1/2 Gallon larger than the hybrid. I am not sure that any of the above has anything to do with OMM however.

#10 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:08 PM

The Energi uses a pressurized fuel tank which would make it very difficult for any moisture to get in, other than the gas itself.


When fuel is burned the fuel must be displaced with an equivalent volume of something else until you fill up again otherwise there would be a vacuum in the tank (you can't suck soda out of a bottle unless you provide a way for air to get into the bottle). Typically the positive pressure is maintained by bringing in atmospheric air to displace the diminishing volume of gas. The constant influx of air (often laden with moisture) is a source of much of the unwanted water in the engine.

First I have heard of a bladder but that would definitely be a way to eliminate the condensation issue and make for a much safer fuel cell. I did a little looksee and found Toyota eliminated the bladder because it had issues that led to poor gas gauge readings and the occasional burping actually posed a safety issue. I am sure, with more refined execution, a bladder system would be a good way to go.

No one has definitively explained how OMM works (all that has been "discussed", so far, is speculation) and it probably is just an algorithm based on ICE run time and operating temperature. What we do know is that OMM is used to mitigate fuel and water that gets into the oil. The source of the fuel that makes its way into the oil definitely comes from the fuel tank and my contention is that water, that originates in the fuel tank, is also a source for water that makes its way into the oil.

Edited by Don, 14 February 2014 - 01:51 PM.


#11 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 01:32 PM

The Energi pressurizes the tank to control emissions but the Hybrid does not. I am not sure if that helps water in the tank or not but it may explain why our tank is rated 1/2 Gallon larger than the hybrid. I am not sure that any of the above has anything to do with OMM however.

 

It's a different tank than in the Hybrid. The Energi tank is reinforced to handle the positive pressure so they couldn't just use an existing tank from another product.



#12 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:39 PM

For the last time.......... OMM has nothing to do with the fuel tank :drop:



#13 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:46 PM

For the last time.......... OMM has nothing to do with the fuel tank :drop:


Your wrong. Condensation, created in the fuel tank, makes its way into the oil which is one of the reasons there is an OMM.

Edited by Don, 14 February 2014 - 08:24 PM.


#14 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:17 AM

You are right about the potential problems with the bladder. I experienced both. The burping occurs when the tank is topped-off a little too much and the "guess gauge" issue on the early Prius is legendary to the point that I fill up when the miles driven is 10X the displayed miles for the tank. It took a while to trust the gauge on the NRG, but I don't really look at it much.

#15 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:19 AM

I suppose a pressurized tank would be a different beast and would require reinforcement. I just can't explain why our tank has larger capacity.

#16 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 07:06 AM

Your wrong. Condensation, created in the fuel tank, makes its way into the oil which is one of the reasons there is an OMM.

 OMG!  Anything entering the combustion chamber is ignited with the fuel.



#17 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 07:21 AM

OMG!  Anything entering the combustion chamber is ignited with the fuel.


OMG! Anything going past cold valve guides and cold rings, that are not fully expanded to close the gaps, finds its way into the oil sump. How the heck do you think the fuel that OMM is also designed to manage makes its way into oil? Also, any water making its way into the combustion chamber does not combust it turns into to steam which, when under compression, will easily make its way past rings that are not up to operating temperature.

Edited by Don, 15 February 2014 - 07:45 AM.


#18 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:22 AM

OMG! Anything going past cold valve guides and cold rings, that are not fully expanded to close the gaps, finds its way into the oil sump. How the heck do you think the fuel that OMM is also designed to manage makes its way into oil? Also, any water making its way into the combustion chamber does not combust it turns into to steam which, when under compression, will easily make its way past rings that are not up to operating temperature.

OMM is for condensation buildup inside the crankcase. Wholly shit! If that much water made it into the fuel system the engine wouldn't even run. What drugs are you on ??????????????


Edited by drdiesel1, 15 February 2014 - 09:24 AM.


#19 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:39 AM

OMM is for condensation buildup inside the crankcase. Wholly shit! If that much water made it into the fuel system the engine wouldn't even run. What drugs are you on ??????????????


Bummer that you are not able to get it. What do you mean by "that much water"? Nobody has said anything about volumes or quantity. Just as not all the fuel gets into the sump the same applies to the water. The sump does not fill up with fuel, right. In order for water to condense, in the sump, the water has to get in there in the first place. Unlike the fuel tank the oil in the crankcase does not change volume so there is no continuous source of displacement air that provides continuous source of moisture for the buildup to happen.

#20 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 09:01 PM

Bummer that you are not able to get it. What do you mean by "that much water"? Nobody has said anything about volumes or quantity. Just as not all the fuel gets into the sump the same applies to the water. The sump does not fill up with fuel, right. In order for water to condense, in the sump, the water has to get in there in the first place. Unlike the fuel tank the oil in the crankcase does not change volume so there is no continuous source of displacement air that provides continuous source of moisture for the buildup to happen.

Look up PCV system.............. Google is your friend :hysterical:










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