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Guest Message by DevFuse

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Winter driving strategy

c-max energi fusion energi winter cold weather mpg fuel economy strategy

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88 replies to this topic

#21 OFFLINE   tomkraj

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:03 AM

Turn the hvac off and use the seat heaters.

Honemch is from San Diego but it works in Wisconsin too. 









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#22 OFFLINE   coloplugin

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:37 PM

A couple of strategies I've been trying to reduce the heating load on the battery . . .

 

--Seat heaters are the ticket!

 

--When I'm by myself, I set the passenger-side temperature control a few degrees below the driver-side.  Typically I'll do about 65-67 on the left and 60-62 on the right.

 

--I've had good luck running only the "lower" fans first, which provide a more generalized warm-up right away.  I'm finding myself dissatisfied with the "higher" fans--they don't blow very strongly even on high temps, and they can't seem to reach the lower steering wheel, which can be pretty cold.



#23 OFFLINE   mdpigroaster

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 05:34 AM

One thing that i have discovered (and this comes from reading a lot of these posts), is to make sure your tires are properly inflated.  I had also noticed a drop in estimated MPGe since I got the car in August all the way down to 13-14.  I didn't think that I was driving that much different, but the weather was getting colder.  I stopped using the heater (turned the system off when in EV mode) and just used the seat warmers.  I noticed an increase to 16-17.  Actually this is an immediate increase.  If I start off in EV mode with the heat on, it would read 13-14.  If I turned off the heat it went right to 16-17.  I read a few posts about people over-inflating their tires and figured I would at least need to check my air pressure. Then, I got the low tire message.  I found that the right front tire was flat and I fixed the flat with a repair kit (no I did not use the kit Ford provides - I hate those things).  After that I discovered that all the tires where in the low 30's and the recommended pressure is 38 psi.  So I inflated the tires to 40 psi (I always over-inflate tires by at least 2 psi and sometimes up to 5 psi.  I was taught this by an auto mechanic years ago.On my next trip out, I managed 156 MPGe on a 6.5 mile trip that is 4.5 miles at highway speed of 60. On the next charge, it went back up to 20 miles estimated range (which is my usual estimated range I had been getting).  So I attribute this to bringing the tires up to the proper pressure.

 

So:  Proper air pressure, no heat in EV mode should help in getting back the estimated EV range.


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#24 OFFLINE   bailey964

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 01:38 PM

I'll be sure to check my tire pressure but with below 0 weather here in Denver, I'm way down on the range.  I got 12.7 miles off a full change.  With the temp down this low, there's no choice but to run the heater.  I drove my CMax like a regular car today (no ev later, no turning off the heat) and my MPG went down to 47 on my 40 mile trip to work.  I normally get 85+MPG on this trip.  Thank God we have a warmer weather coming later this week.  Still, 47 MPG is better then most cars.


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#25 OFFLINE   mremelman

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:42 AM

For anyone in doubt about how Ford approached the whole cabin heating issue, here is a link

to a handy picture that identifies components.  Pretty cool!

 

http://corporate.for...rification-phev

 

 

Cheers!


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#26 OFFLINE   Izzy

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:44 AM

I can't find #13--where is it located?

#27 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 06:04 AM

I can't find #13--where is it located?

In the back behind #12.



#28 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:56 AM

I can't find #13--where is it located?

Just move the mouse pointer over the name in the left pane. Give it a click and it will open it.



#29 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:04 PM

How does the Energi prioritize cabin heating for a Go Time versus charging? Suppose the Energi arrives home with an empty battery. It will take just over 2 hours to charge to 100% on Level 2. I set a Go Time for 1 hr 45 min from now with the temp set to 72 for cabin pre-heating. I know that I won't have a full charge by the time I leave but I know that I'm not driving far enough to need a full charge so I want the car to prioritize cabin preconditioning and not charging. I did this experiment today and it seemed that the car chose to charge instead of really pre-heating the cabin because it wasn't as warm as it usually is when getting in after preconditioning.



#30 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 04:33 PM

Yes, the car will not begin preconditioning until it has been fully charged.  I have set the GO time to occur shortly after charging completes (and before).   After the HVB has completed charging, and the power drawn by the car from the charger drops to around 600 watts.   The power consumed by the car then goes back up to 3.4 kW when preconditioning now begins.  Depending on the temperature, preconditioning starts up to an hour before the GO time.  If the car has not completed charging the HVB soon enough before the GO time, preconditioning time will be cut short (or not occur at all if charging of the HVB has not completed prior to the GO time).

 

I have also observed, on a couple of occasions, the car will continue to draw power (about 100 watts) from the charger for up to two hours after HVB charging has completed.  I am assuming it is continuing to charge the 12 V battery during this time.  So if you are determining Value Charge settings for charging, you might want to allow 2 hours for the HVB to charge, an additional 2 hours for the 12 V battery to charge, and 1 hour for preconditioning.  So charging should start at least 5 hours before the GO time with a 240 V charger. 


Edited by larryh, 14 December 2013 - 04:57 PM.


#31 OFFLINE   hybridbear

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 09:45 AM

Yes, the car will not begin preconditioning until it has been fully charged.  I have set the GO time to occur shortly after charging completes (and before).   After the HVB has completed charging, and the power drawn by the car from the charger drops to around 600 watts.   The power consumed by the car then goes back up to 3.4 kW when preconditioning now begins.  Depending on the temperature, preconditioning starts up to an hour before the GO time.  If the car has not completed charging the HVB soon enough before the GO time, preconditioning time will be cut short (or not occur at all if charging of the HVB has not completed prior to the GO time).

 

I have also observed, on a couple of occasions, the car will continue to draw power (about 100 watts) from the charger for up to two hours after HVB charging has completed.  I am assuming it is continuing to charge the 12 V battery during this time.  So if you are determining Value Charge settings for charging, you might want to allow 2 hours for the HVB to charge, an additional 2 hours for the 12 V battery to charge, and 1 hour for preconditioning.  So charging should start at least 5 hours before the GO time with a 240 V charger. 

Interesting. This explains why I expected the car to be warm but then found that it wasn't when my Go Time was before charging was completed. This was only an issue when making many trips the same day and stopping to charge for an hour or two in between trips. Is there a way to tell the car to give priority to cabin heating rather than increasing battery range? When you will be leaving before charging is complete should you remote start while the car is plugged in to get cabin heat instead of increased range?



#32 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 01:58 PM

Your only choice, if charging will not complete well before the GO time, is to start or remote start the car with it plugged in.  But don't do it in an enclosed garage.  Set the mode to EV now before starting or remote starting to make the ICE less like to turn on.  It will probably turn on anyway if it is below zero.  The car will use power from the battery faster than the charger is providing it. 


Edited by larryh, 16 December 2013 - 02:00 PM.


#33 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 29 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

I tried the engine block heater out today.  It was -2 F.  After 3 hours, the coolant temperature was 30 degrees Celsius.  I then preconditioned the car with the 120 V charger.  Preconditioning started 1 hour before my GO time, which was 3 hours after plugging in the EBH.   As usual, the 120 V charger was useless for preconditioning the cabin, even after the EBH raised the coolant temperature to 30 Celsius.  The car's interior was no warmer than when preconditioning started.  I left the EBH plugged in during preconditioning.  At the GO time, one hour later, the coolant temperature was still 30 Celsius.   There is no point leaving the EBH plugged in for more than 3 hours, it won't warm the engine any further.  After starting the car, warm air came from the cabin heater within a mile of my departure.  So the EBH enables warm air much sooner than not using it.  Also, I assume the car reaches optimal operating temperature sooner and hopefully won't waste as much gas waiting until the engine warms up to optimal operating temperature.


Edited by larryh, 29 December 2013 - 03:12 PM.


#34 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:03 AM

Previously, when it was below zero, I have been unable to drive to work without the ICE starting.  This morning I decided to plug in the EBH for 3 hours prior to departure.  Previously, I had only plugged it in for about 1.5 hours.  The temperature this morning was -5 F.  I was able to drive to work entirely in EV mode.   I checked the coolant temperature when I arrived at work.  It was 30 Celcius.

Apparently, the cold weather conditions under which the ICE starts when in EV Now mode are something like this.

  •     If it is above zero F, the ICE does not start until the HVB nears depletion (maybe 15% SOC remaining).
  •     If it is below zero F, the ICE starts when the coolant temperature is below a certain threshold or the HVB nears depletion.  The threshold is probably no more than 30 Celsius.

 

I think if you leave climate control off, the ICE would probably not start.  But at -5 F, you have to run climate control or the windows will frost up so I can't test that.  If the car is in EV auto mode, the ICE is much more likely to start.

Also, it appears the engine coolant does not circulate when the ICE has not started.  Otherwise, the coolant temperature would not have still been 30 Celcius after the 13 minute drive to work at -5 F.  I am basing the coolant temperature on what the car reports in Engineering Test mode.
 


Edited by larryh, 02 January 2014 - 02:12 PM.


#35 OFFLINE   Ryan McEachern

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 12:05 PM

In my experience, this is correct. The coolant doesn't circulate the engine block and radiator unless the ICE starts and warms up. Thanks goodness for that!

I don't use the Block heater I bought, but the preconditioning of the car while parked in our insulated small garage warms the entire car. Using the preconditioning is vital for getting good use of the EV in winter in my situation. . Without using the GO times at our house, I would probably be better off with a small diesel engine. With the preconditioning, I can still get 20-30km EV range, even into the deep cold.

Edited by Ryan McEachern, 02 January 2014 - 12:07 PM.

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#36 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 01:39 PM

Previously, when it was below zero, I have been unable to drive to work without the ICE starting.  This morning I decided to plug in the EBH for 3 hours prior to departure.  Previously, I had only plugged it in for about 1.5 hours.  The temperature this morning was -5 F.  I was able to drive to work entirely in EV mode.   I checked the coolant temperature when I arrived at work.  It was 30 Celcius.
 

I should have mentioned that I park in attached garage that is about 25 degrees warmer than outside.  I also precondition the car using a 240 V charger.  If you park outside in the cold, or don't precondition, it will probably behave differently.



#37 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 04:45 PM

Yes, the car will not begin preconditioning until it has been fully charged.  I have set the GO time to occur shortly after charging completes (and before).   After the HVB has completed charging, and the power drawn by the car from the charger drops to around 600 watts.   The power consumed by the car then goes back up to 3.4 kW when preconditioning now begins.  Depending on the temperature, preconditioning starts up to an hour before the GO time.  If the car has not completed charging the HVB soon enough before the GO time, preconditioning time will be cut short (or not occur at all if charging of the HVB has not completed prior to the GO time).

 

I have also observed, on a couple of occasions, the car will continue to draw power (about 100 watts) from the charger for up to two hours after HVB charging has completed.  I am assuming it is continuing to charge the 12 V battery during this time.  So if you are determining Value Charge settings for charging, you might want to allow 2 hours for the HVB to charge, an additional 2 hours for the 12 V battery to charge, and 1 hour for preconditioning.  So charging should start at least 5 hours before the GO time with a 240 V charger. 

The low power draw after charging is complete is not likely 12V charging, but balancing the individual cells within the HVB.  The 12V will never get to 100% State of Charge off the HVB trickle charge (i the NRG doesn't have an alternator, it uses the HVB to top off the 12V).  That can only be done from an external battery charger which can get the 12V up to 100% vSOC.  Check out the technology in other threads here on 'Suppercharging'.



#38 OFFLINE   larryh

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Posted 03 January 2014 - 05:48 PM

The following graph shows Power vs. Time while charging the HVB using a 240 V charger.  Charging begins at 0:53 and continues until 2:38. I believe that the HVB cells are being balanced from 2:19 to 2:36, as the power drops from about 3.4 kW to 0 kW over the 17 minute period.  Then from 2:36 until 4:54, the car continues to draw about 67 watts of power from the charger, which I suspect is to charge the 12 V battery.  Preconditioning occurs from 4:55 to 5:38, at which time I disconnected the charger.  The GO time was set for 5:45.  The temperature in the garage was about 15 F.

 

All the time that power is being drawn, the 12 V battery is being charged.  This can be observed by monitoring the voltage using a voltage monitor plugged into the Power Point in the car's console. 

 

Normally, the car stops drawing power from the charger once charging the HVB battery completes, i.e. at 2:36.  So no further power is drawn until preconditioning begins, i.e. 4:55.  I have only observed the 67 watt power draw about 4 times over the past few months.  The last 3 times were in the past three weeks with the colder weather.   I think it requires much more than 67 watts to do anything to the HVB. 

gallery_520_36_61644.jpg


Edited by larryh, 06 January 2014 - 03:39 AM.

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#39 OFFLINE   Don

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 08:13 AM

Thanks for posting the plot. Some of the best data I have seen concerning charging with a 240V charger.
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#40 OFFLINE   dontfret

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:36 AM

Thanks larryg for the excellent data and confirming the 12V is charging in the end game.  I am receiving my Clipper Creek 240V later today and should have it installed later this week.  Can't wait to actually use preconditioning to heat the car before driving away with a  full charge!!  No more warm backside (thanks to the seat warmer) and cold feet!!!  Wonder if that also will raise the charge and EV range over time as the car 'learns' I won't be using EV to heat it?!?!  Ah, perhaps I expect too much...











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