Jump to content

Custom Search




Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum


Sign In  Log in with Facebook

Create Account
Welcome to the Ford C-MAX Energi Forum. You must register to create topics or post in our community - but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be apart of Ford C-MAX Energi Forum by signing in or creating an account.
  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members
  • Create a photo album and post images. . .more.
Click here to create an account now.
 
Guest Message by DevFuse

Get you C-MAX Energi Registered in the official Ford Authorized Registry. More here.


Photo
- - - - -

regenerative brakes vs disc brake life


  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   GuyFromCanada

GuyFromCanada

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 72 posts
  • Region:Canada Quebec
  • LocationQuebec
  • Current Vehicle:Ford C-Max Energi 2013

Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:21 AM

I was wondering if the use of regenerative brakes will help extend the disc brakes life ?

 

I can't seem to find any info on that and it'll help me decide if I take the all-inclusive maintenance package.

 

Thanks !!









Lose this advertisement by becoming a member. Click here to create a free account.

#2 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:32 AM

Disc brake life is pretty much independent from regeneration. Disc brake life is mostly determined by how much and how hard you brake as well as the size of the brakes installed on the car. The only way to determine actual "average" brake life, on the Energi, is to get some data from owners. I have not looked but perhaps the owners manual has service intervals, for brakes,  based on miles. Since the car is so new data from owners is not yet available so it would be a guess, at best, to predict actual brake service intervals.

 

Keep in mind that one single, very hard, braking event could be enough to damage the brakes to cause them to require service. If you ever have to brake really hard the rotor will heat up considerably, if you leave your foot on the brakes (after the emergency stop) your rotors will cool down in a non-uniform way and this is often the cause of rotors warping. Of course don't think about saving the rotors if safety is compromised.


Edited by Don, 13 August 2013 - 06:56 AM.


#3 OFFLINE   honemch

honemch

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 791 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationSan Diego, CA
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:30 AM

Yes, the regenerative braking will make the disk brakes last a much longer time as long as you use it. That means longer, slower stopping. The brake coach will help train you into using the regenerative braking to its maximum potential.

#4 OFFLINE   GaryG

GaryG

    Energi Member

  • Inactive
  • PipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationJupiter, FL
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:'09 FEHL, '13 C-Max Energi 302A

Posted 13 August 2013 - 04:53 PM

Disc brake life is pretty much independent from regeneration. Disc brake life is mostly determined by how much and how hard you brake as well as the size of the brakes installed on the car. The only way to determine actual "average" brake life, on the Energi, is to get some data from owners. I have not looked but perhaps the owners manual has service intervals, for brakes,  based on miles. Since the car is so new data from owners is not yet available so it would be a guess, at best, to predict actual brake service intervals.

 

Keep in mind that one single, very hard, braking event could be enough to damage the brakes to cause them to require service. If you ever have to brake really hard the rotor will heat up considerably, if you leave your foot on the brakes (after the emergency stop) your rotors will cool down in a non-uniform way and this is often the cause of rotors warping. Of course don't think about saving the rotors if safety is compromised.

 

Don, I don't where you're getting your information, but it is totally incorrect. I'll just leave it at that.

 

Gary



#5 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 05:51 PM

http://www.ebay.com/...05242298/g.html

 

Everything I say is easily verified by many published accounts and is well known by anyone that knows even a little bit about cars.

 

Do a web search on what causes rotor warp.

 

The question, in context, is whether or not to  buy extended warranty with the reasoning that regeneration will take so much load off the disc brakes that brake service may not be required during the length of the warranty period. It is only common sense that brake service intervals are purely a function of how individual drivers use the brakes. A single "hot stop" can cause the car to require brake service. Regeneration has nothing to do with when or when not the brakes need to be serviced.

 

Gary- If you want to attack my comments it is your prerogative to do so. If you wish to attack my comments in a meaningful way, to make a point, then you should provide some reasoning or proof of the counterpoint. When you just attack and then you cite your accomplishments and your son's success to, I guess, establish some sort of credibility (as you have done in several posts) you are exhibiting very childlike primitive behavior.


Edited by Don, 13 August 2013 - 06:02 PM.


#6 OFFLINE   GaryG

GaryG

    Energi Member

  • Inactive
  • PipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationJupiter, FL
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:'09 FEHL, '13 C-Max Energi 302A

Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:23 PM

http://www.ebay.com/...05242298/g.html

 

Everything I say is easily verified by many published accounts and is well known by anyone that knows even a little bit about cars.

 

Do a web search on what causes rotor warp.

 

The question, in context, is whether or not to  buy extended warranty with the reasoning that regeneration will take so much load off the disc brakes that brake service may not be required during the length of the warranty period. It is only common sense that brake service intervals are purely a function of how individual drivers use the brakes. A single "hot stop" can cause the car to require brake service. Regeneration has nothing to do with when or when not the brakes need to be serviced.

 

That article had nothing to do with hybrids or EV's with regenerative braking and how it affects the life of the rotors and pads or even servicing. You've never did a brake job I can tell. If you can't interpret an article, why respond to a question you know nothing about?

 

Look at Honemch response to the OP question. Honemch didn't give a BS answer. Think before you post Don.

 

That said, servicing is not the problem. Failure of expensive brake control systems can be very costly.

 

Gary 



#7 OFFLINE   Don

Don

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 1,021 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationCalifornia
  • Current Vehicle:C Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:59 PM

The article applies to any vehicle with disc brakes (car, bicycle, tractor, airplane, etc) regardless of any other systems the vehicle may have to help slow it down.

 

I have done plenty of brake jobs myself and have had plenty done by others.

 

Just as in the statement your mileage may vary the same applies to brake life.



#8 OFFLINE   jimdoc

jimdoc

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 46 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationHydes, MD, USA
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:06 PM

Yes, the regenerative braking will make the disk brakes last a much longer time as long as you use it. That means longer, slower stopping. The brake coach will help train you into using the regenerative braking to its maximum potential.

 

Prius owners who have had their cars long enough to tell seem to be getting between 100,000 and 200,000 miles before needing "routine" brake service, through a combination of modern disk brake pad technology and lowered brake stress secondary to much of the kinetic energy of motion being diverted to electricity regeneration and storage instead of heating brakes. 


  • Cmaxbob likes this

#9 OFFLINE   viajero

viajero

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 579 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationAustin TX
  • Current Vehicle:C-Max Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 07:20 PM

While I believe Don's assertion that a random drastic event could mess up anyone's brakes, the expected lifetime of friction brakes should be much longer with a hybrid using regen than with a conventional car, especially if you don't habitually brake hard.  Google Prius brake pad life and there are many accounts of original brake pads going 75, 100, 120 k miles.

 

I hardly ever press my brake pedal unless I come to a complete stop or someone suddenly pulls in front of me.



#10 OFFLINE   paladinfello

paladinfello

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 95 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationSan Francisco
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX Energi

Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:29 PM

Conventional vehicles only have one and a half ways of stopping/slowing the vehicle.  Friction braking is the only way to fully stop the vehicle while downshifting/engine breaking will help slow the vehicle, but not stop it.  With any electric/hybrid vehicle the two modes of stopping are the regenerative braking and the friction breaks.  If you are able to brake long enough to your stop, the motor, aka regenerative brakes, will slow the vehicle to a stop, with maybe a little friction braking at the end.  For more sudden stops, both the motor and friction brakes will work in tandem to stop the vehicle.  The brake coach is a good indication of how much regen vs. friction brake was used.

So to answer your question in one word, yes.  Unless you plan on running your car hard with the ICE, hard stops, and long miles, the maintenance package isn't worth the money.



#11 OFFLINE   Tdefny

Tdefny

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 487 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationNew York
  • Current Vehicle:'13 C-Max Energi, '02 Prius, '00 Town & Country

Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:43 AM

All other things being equal, regen should improve brake life, probably by a considerable amount. Just take a look at your front wheels and those of any non-hybrid. You will see brake dust on theirs but not on yours.

My Prius has over 200k on it. I replaced the brakes at 100k based only on the mileage, but I probably wasted my money. The current set was at about 50% at the last inspection.

#12 OFFLINE   bobs

bobs

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 69 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationNew York
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Cmax Energi

Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:57 AM

One thing that does get involved in this is winter road salting. On my escape hybrid i did little braking with the disks and they tended to have issues due to rust build up, especially the rear disks. I used neutral (which turned off regen) to help with this issue.

#13 OFFLINE   rtshinn

rtshinn

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 285 posts
  • Region:U.S. Great Lakes
  • LocationOhio
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Ford C-Max Energi 302a+Sunroof

Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:21 AM

Before the C-Max, I had a Toyota Camry Hybrid and sold it at about 110,000 miles. Never had to change the pads.

You will definitely get better wear with the regeneration taking most of the load off of the pads.



#14 OFFLINE   GuyFromCanada

GuyFromCanada

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 72 posts
  • Region:Canada Quebec
  • LocationQuebec
  • Current Vehicle:Ford C-Max Energi 2013

Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:57 AM

Thanks for all the answers and first-hand reports. I do live in Canada so winter salt will be an issue. I'll probably do a brake cleaning mid-winter and in the spring to prevent some rust buildup and I'll watch it closely.

 

The way I see it is if I get more than 90% with the brake coach (which is easy to achieve) I'll extend the life of the braking pad considerably unless some random hard stop screw up the brakes prematurely.

 

All in all, extended brake pad life + engine oil change at 10K miles (or more) means that the maintenance plan is not worth it.



#15 OFFLINE   GaryG

GaryG

    Energi Member

  • Inactive
  • PipPip
  • 841 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Atlantic
  • LocationJupiter, FL
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:'09 FEHL, '13 C-Max Energi 302A

Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:47 PM

The article applies to any vehicle with disc brakes (car, bicycle, tractor, airplane, etc) regardless of any other systems the vehicle may have to help slow it down.

 

I have done plenty of brake jobs myself and have had plenty done by others.

 

Just as in the statement your mileage may vary the same applies to brake life.

 

Look Don, stop the BS post.

 

Gary



#16 OFFLINE   12mile

12mile

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 40 posts
  • Region:Decline
  • LocationSE Pa
  • Current Vehicle:2013 C-Max Energi

Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:12 PM

Just had a PA state inspection at about 24k miles and Ford dealer said rear brakes will likely need pads at next inspection. Front pads are ok.

Dealer said their experience has been that on hybrids the rear pads seem to wear faster.

My speculation is that regen braking on the front wheels may need some rear braking to assure stability thereby wearing more on the rear pads.

FOLLOW-UP! Next dealer visit, dealer found rear pads were in great shape saying it must have been a transcription error. No charge for the check. I am relieved by this news.

Edited by 12mile, 09 February 2015 - 03:14 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   fotomoto

fotomoto

    Energi Member

  • Moderator
  • 1,251 posts
  • Region:U.S. Southern Plains
  • LocationSouth Texas
  • Current Vehicle:CMAX

Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:25 PM

My speculation is that regen braking on the front wheels may need some rear braking to assure stability thereby wearing more on the rear pads.

 

Interesting theory I haven't heard before.  Pad thickness measurements would be very helpful.  Service managers are trained to get business so I take things they recommend with a big grain of salt.



#18 OFFLINE   rbort

rbort

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • PipPip
  • 4,129 posts
  • Region:U.S. Northeast
  • LocationFranklin, MA
  • My C-MAX:2017
  • Current Vehicle:Cmax Energi Titanium with Moonroof

Posted 18 January 2015 - 07:29 PM

Brakes are cheap and easy to replace.  I learned a long time ago to use the brakes instead of downshifting with the clutch.  My first car I wore the clutch down by downshifting all the time and it cost me $500 to replace back in the 80's.  The brakes on the other hand cost like $20 per axle to do myself.  Front brakes wore twice as fast as rear brakes. I could easily go 100k miles with rear shoes.  I stopped downshifting and used the cheap pads to stop instead of the expensive clutch.

 

I would change the brakes myself on the Cmax, it would be one of the easy jobs like the oil change.  A hard braking event to avoid a bear (yeah happened to me in PA with my Cmax) is not going to ruin your brakes.  If that was true then every time we had to slam on the brakes due to something jumping in front of us the next day we could have to service the brakes.  Imagine that!

 

-=>Raja.


  • Milkman likes this

#19 OFFLINE   drdiesel1

drdiesel1

    Energi Member

  • C-MAX Energi Platinum Member
  • 1,645 posts
  • Region:U.S. Pacific Coast
  • LocationMonterey CA
  • My C-MAX:Decline
  • Current Vehicle:2014 Ford C-Max Energi

Posted 18 January 2015 - 10:47 PM

Rear pads are thinner because 70% of the braking is done by the fronts.

Brake life is a personal wear item. Everyone is different. Same with tires.



#20 OFFLINE   jeff_h

jeff_h

    New Member

  • C-MAX Energi Member
  • Pip
  • 56 posts
  • Region:Sub-Saharan Africa
  • LocationVirginia
  • Current Vehicle:2013 Fusion Titanium Energi x 2

Posted 19 January 2015 - 05:36 AM

Here is what I experienced with my recent cars -

1) 2006 Escape Hybrid (driven by wife, whose lifetime average brake score is now mid 80s in her Energi, she doesn't care about brake/driving score etc), went for inspection at 60K miles at shop down the road, they called and said it failed inspection as the rear brakes were totally gone (fronts were fine), I thought sure they were BS-ing me just to make money and said I'll come back and get the car and take a look at it.  Brought it back home and pulled the rear wheels and sure enough both were down to nothing - so in that case the rear brakes were worn far quicker than the fronts. She drove it with late braking in many cases, and I guess the rear pads did more of the work than I thought.

 

2) 2005 Prius (driven by me, who does care about brake/driving score and my lifetime average brake score 98), was about to sell it to a coi-worker and had the brake pads sitting in garage waiting for when needed, so changed them at 120K before selling to him.  None of the pads were worn more than half way, but the rear pads were worn slightly more than the front.

 

3) 2010 Fusion Hybrid (also was driven by me), was about to sell it to a friend and again had the brake pads sitting in garage in waiting, so changed at 140K  them before selling to her.   I think some of the pads may have been slightly more than half worn, and took a pic side-by-side with the new pads to post and show the amount of wear that occurred over that many miles (see below).
2010_FFH_Brake_Replace_zps4defd7d1.jpg


Edited by jeff_h, 19 January 2015 - 05:36 AM.

  • fotomoto likes this








0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Privacy Policy TERMS OF SERVICE ·