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39 miles on EV?


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24 replies to this topic

#1 OFFLINE   tpayne99

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 06:49 PM

I just had an interesting thing happen. We got back from a long road trip (2700+ miles), during which time we used hybrid mode exclusively, and used level 1 charging about five times in 10 days. Then we plugged in at home as normal, and today when I got in the car the EV range indicator said 39 miles. Where did that come from?? I'd seen it reach 24 before, but 39 is off the charts; and it seems fairly accurate -- when I got home it indicated 22 miles left, and I drove about 10 miles, including a long hill to our house. I hope the battery isn't over charging. Any ideas?









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#2 OFFLINE   honemch

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Posted 25 June 2013 - 07:32 PM

It's just a guestimation of miles able to be driven on the remaining battery. Don't worry about it. It'll return to a more normal number once you go through a full battery cycle.

#3 OFFLINE   Tdefny

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Posted 30 June 2013 - 06:44 PM

I think JusACMax from the Hybrid forum snuck in and took it for a spin. He has done some interesting things, including an 838 mile tank on his hybrid.

His story is here: http://fordcmaxhybri...a-c-max-hybrid/ .

#4 ONLINE   GaryG

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 06:10 AM

I've been monitoring battery charging closely and found I can run the A/C while charging with the engine off. I'm holding off on MFM because I'm hearing that there are some glitches in the programming and I don't want those to spread to the vehicle.

 

At any rate, while I was charging my battery last night with the 110V charger, I had the A/C On for about an hour monitoring battery temperature, cabin temperature and SoC. Of course I was also watching the mile range increase on the OEM gauge. I went inside the house and let the A/C and charging continue for about 2 more hours. When I returned, the SoC was at 89% and the mile range was at 36 miles. I turned off the A/C and went back into the house letting the charger complete the charge. I went outside later and seen the charging ring off. I checked the SGII SoC and it was at 98%, but the mile range was now at 40 miles. 

 

Now I'm beginning to think the battery can get an extra charge under the right temperature and slow charging conditions. One real strange thing happen while I was in the car at the 89% SoC level with 36 miles on the range, the engine started running. I got out of the car to make sure it was really running, and it was. Got back into the car and checked the engine temperature, and it hadn't moved. The engine was running with no increase in temperature and no loss in MPG. This could only mean MG1 was spinning the engine in fuel-cut to burn off energy the battery could no longer store. I shut off the A/C by the push start/stop button and the engine stopped also. I left the charger still charging the battery with no A/C and no ACC On. The battery still took a charge to 98% till the ring light went out and the mile range finished at 40 miles.

 

Gary



#5 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 08:32 AM

I've been monitoring battery charging closely and found I can run the A/C while charging with the engine off. I'm holding off on MFM because I'm hearing that there are some glitches in the programming and I don't want those to spread to the vehicle.

 

At any rate, while I was charging my battery last night with the 110V charger, I had the A/C On for about an hour monitoring battery temperature, cabin temperature and SoC. Of course I was also watching the mile range increase on the OEM gauge. I went inside the house and let the A/C and charging continue for about 2 more hours. When I returned, the SoC was at 89% and the mile range was at 36 miles. I turned off the A/C and went back into the house letting the charger complete the charge. I went outside later and seen the charging ring off. I checked the SGII SoC and it was at 98%, but the mile range was now at 40 miles. 

 

Now I'm beginning to think the battery can get an extra charge under the right temperature and slow charging conditions. One real strange thing happen while I was in the car at the 89% SoC level with 36 miles on the range, the engine started running. I got out of the car to make sure it was really running, and it was. Got back into the car and checked the engine temperature, and it hadn't moved. The engine was running with no increase in temperature and no loss in MPG. This could only mean MG1 was spinning the engine in fuel-cut to burn off energy the battery could no longer store. I shut off the A/C by the push start/stop button and the engine stopped also. I left the charger still charging the battery with no A/C and no ACC On. The battery still took a charge to 98% till the ring light went out and the mile range finished at 40 miles.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

 

Thanks for the post.  Extremely interesting!

 

I may try to duplicate.

 

Where do you read SOC?

 

What was the outside temperature?

 

What did you have the A/C temperature set to?

 

How, exactly did you turn on the A/C?  Did you need to turn i"ignition button on to accessories or full on?



#6 OFFLINE   honemch

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 09:46 AM

Unfortunately the battery does not hold anymore of a charge than if you were to charge it normally. The miles on battery estimate is simply that, an estimate that is computed based on several factors. One of those factors is regen during the driving cycle. It's seems the car thinks the charging is regen when you do this, and will continue to increase the estimated miles until it reaches its max value of 40 (that's the highest I've ever gotten it to go). When you drive the car, you'll see your estimated mileage drop off quickly and you will get your normal range from the battery.

How long did you charge for? Sounds like from your post you used more than 10 kwh to charge your battery since you ran the AC for over three hours.

Smiling Jack, If you don't have a scan gauge, SOC is found on the second page (not the power flow screen) under the leaf icon. To get the AC to run the car has to be completely on. The fan blower will run in accessory mode, but the AC won't pump.

#7 OFFLINE   Sparky

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 11:15 AM

43-mile-2013-06-22a.jpg

 

This was from charging after a descent from the mountains.   It was not realistic.   I went about 24 on battery that day.


Edited by Sparky, 06 July 2013 - 11:16 AM.


#8 ONLINE   GaryG

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 01:46 PM


Gary,

Thanks for the post. Extremely interesting!

I may try to duplicate.

Where do you read SOC?

What was the outside temperature?

What did you have the A/C temperature set to?

How, exactly did you turn on the A/C? Did you need to turn i"ignition button on to accessories or full on?


Hey Jack

I have a Scangauge in every one of my 3 Ford vehicles. There is a thread I started here that I provides how to program the SGII for those gauges and a few that don't work for the C-Max Energi. SoC is the one I use the most, but battery temperature is just as important to me.

The outside temperature was about 84 last evening, but the battery was 98F plus when I started charging with ~6 miles and ~35% SoC left.

I had the A/C set on 70F and you do NOT need to start the vehicle to turn it On. With the charging cord plugged-in, the vehicle will not start or move. Once you attemp to start the car, the warning light to unplug the charger will come on and go out again. The A/C will start cooling at this point.

The real reason I wanted to turn the A/C on while charging was to precool the cabin while using the plug-in power. There are many other reasons to keep the cabin cool for a pet or anythink else.

The charge at 98% stayed at 98% today when I check it this morning, but the mile range drop down to 36 miles before I move the vehicle. I'm considered an Expert Hypermiler by my peers during competions, and I don't see 36 miles on a full charge a problem for me now with my Energi. I'm getting over 30 miles with a full charge now in the city with P&G with "N" coasting on flat roads with the A/C on 100% of the time. It's these kinds of discoveries by everyone that will improve charging and MPG for us owners of the Energi.

Gary

Edited by GaryG, 06 July 2013 - 01:48 PM.

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#9 OFFLINE   jeffegg2

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Posted 06 July 2013 - 05:14 PM

The miles are estimate. I usually get 27 miles using stop and go at 40 mph.

 

Jeff.



#10 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:04 AM

Unfortunately the battery does not hold anymore of a charge than if you were to charge it normally. The miles on battery estimate is simply that, an estimate that is computed based on several factors. One of those factors is regen during the driving cycle. It's seems the car thinks the charging is regen when you do this, and will continue to increase the estimated miles until it reaches its max value of 40 (that's the highest I've ever gotten it to go). When you drive the car, you'll see your estimated mileage drop off quickly and you will get your normal range from the battery.

How long did you charge for? Sounds like from your post you used more than 10 kwh to charge your battery since you ran the AC for over three hours.

Smiling Jack, If you don't have a scan gauge, SOC is found on the second page (not the power flow screen) under the leaf icon. To get the AC to run the car has to be completely on. The fan blower will run in accessory mode, but the AC won't pump.

Thanks for that insight and for the last bit about the SOC screen directions;  a useful screen that I had not seen!



#11 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 11:10 AM

Hey Jack

I have a Scangauge in every one of my 3 Ford vehicles. There is a thread I started here that I provides how to program the SGII for those gauges and a few that don't work for the C-Max Energi. SoC is the one I use the most, but battery temperature is just as important to me.

The outside temperature was about 84 last evening, but the battery was 98F plus when I started charging with ~6 miles and ~35% SoC left.

I had the A/C set on 70F and you do NOT need to start the vehicle to turn it On. With the charging cord plugged-in, the vehicle will not start or move. Once you attemp to start the car, the warning light to unplug the charger will come on and go out again. The A/C will start cooling at this point.

The real reason I wanted to turn the A/C on while charging was to precool the cabin while using the plug-in power. There are many other reasons to keep the cabin cool for a pet or anythink else.

The charge at 98% stayed at 98% today when I check it this morning, but the mile range drop down to 36 miles before I move the vehicle. I'm considered an Expert Hypermiler by my peers during competions, and I don't see 36 miles on a full charge a problem for me now with my Energi. I'm getting over 30 miles with a full charge now in the city with P&G with "N" coasting on flat roads with the A/C on 100% of the time. It's these kinds of discoveries by everyone that will improve charging and MPG for us owners of the Energi.

Gary

Gary:  Thanks for posting the info and for the clarification.

 

I may indeed still try charging with A/C on and report any result, but I suppose that if I want to see an EV estimate higher than my usual 24, I will probably need to change my driving pattern - difficult for me to do in present circumstances, but perhaps more likely down the road a bit.



#12 ONLINE   GaryG

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 04:59 PM

Gary:  Thanks for posting the info and for the clarification.

 

I may indeed still try charging with A/C on and report any result, but I suppose that if I want to see an EV estimate higher than my usual 24, I will probably need to change my driving pattern - difficult for me to do in present circumstances, but perhaps more likely down the road a bit.

 

Battery management alone will increase driving range on any charge level. The Energi stops EV over 113F, but near 113F is not the best driving range temperature. The ideal battery temperature is 78F, so the battery will be the most efficient for range at that temperature. EV operating temperature is best between 32 - 113F, but it is more efficient at 78F. Sync and MFT modules activate cabin battery cooling when the A/C is on and outside temperatures are warmer and the battery needs cooler air.

 

In cold weather, there are three ways of heating the battery. The defroster will run the engine for heat and Sync and the MFT modules will activate battery heating from the cabin. My suggestion is to heat the battery first with charging the battery just prior to driving the car. Heating will continue as the battery discharges in EV and using "L" gear for regen. The third way is a block heater to accelerate engine temperature after start-up and defroster use.

 

Now that we know how to activate the A/C while charging, we can control some of the heat build-up in the battery. We also know this can be done with either Level of charger. There are many times

I can charge my battery slower with the A/C on, but the battery will be more efficient in hot weather. Also, I may not need a full charge to get home where I can wait for a full charge.

 

Gary



#13 ONLINE   GaryG

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:01 PM

Today I went downtown WPB to pick-up work (20.3 miles), and returned to a free level 2 charger at my wife's work which is 5.1 miles from my house. I went a little over 30 miles in EV before hybrid mode kicked in. The A/C was on 70F the entire time and when I plugged in the level 2 charger, the battery was at 98F and had 15.7% SoC. The parking space is in direct sunlight and it was 90F outside. Started the A/C while charging and left in my wife's Explorer to do some shopping. The engine again started spinning by MG1 and it took 3 hours and 35 minutes to charge to 99.9%. The battery temperature went to 102F, and the cabin was at 80F when I returned. The charge ring went out at 99.9% SoC and the battery range was at 37 miles.

 

As you can see, keeping the battery cool is an important factor in hot climates. Using the cabin A/C in hot weather is a must and Ford thinks you are.

 

Gary



#14 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 09:13 AM

Today I went downtown WPB to pick-up work (20.3 miles), and returned to a free level 2 charger at my wife's work which is 5.1 miles from my house. I went a little over 30 miles in EV before hybrid mode kicked in. The A/C was on 70F the entire time and when I plugged in the level 2 charger, the battery was at 98F and had 15.7% SoC. The parking space is in direct sunlight and it was 90F outside. Started the A/C while charging and left in my wife's Explorer to do some shopping. The engine again started spinning by MG1 and it took 3 hours and 35 minutes to charge to 99.9%. The battery temperature went to 102F, and the cabin was at 80F when I returned. The charge ring went out at 99.9% SoC and the battery range was at 37 miles.

 

As you can see, keeping the battery cool is an important factor in hot climates. Using the cabin A/C in hot weather is a must and Ford thinks you are.

 

Gary

 

Gary,

 

Ford thinks we are doing what ?

 

Thanks for the continuing info.

 

So, I tried it.  The rundown:

 

Yesterday I did about 19 miles mostly at highway speeds with the A/C on 73 in near 100-degree conditions,  Last night I charged (120 v) overnight.  This morning I had 100% SOC and an indicated 28-mile EV range (23 with A/C on).  Then I let it charge for nearly an hour with the A/C on.  Following that, the EV range estimate had risen to 35 miles (29 with A/C on).

 

I will stay in "EV only" post as to just how many EV miles I actually get, but it will probably be mostly at slow street speeds, and we have 100-degree temperatures again, so I will definitely be driving with the a/C on.



#15 ONLINE   GaryG

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 04:05 PM

Gary,

 

Ford thinks we are doing what ?

 

Thanks for the continuing info.

 

So, I tried it.  The rundown:

 

Yesterday I did about 19 miles mostly at highway speeds with the A/C on 73 in near 100-degree conditions,  Last night I charged (120 v) overnight.  This morning I had 100% SOC and an indicated 28-mile EV range (23 with A/C on).  Then I let it charge for nearly an hour with the A/C on.  Following that, the EV range estimate had risen to 35 miles (29 with A/C on).

 

I will stay in "EV only" post as to just how many EV miles I actually get, but it will probably be mostly at slow street speeds, and we have 100-degree temperatures again, so I will definitely be driving with the a/C on.

 

Great!

 

I'm definitely getting longer range now and I think the A/C cooling allows for better charging balance in the cells. I couldn't get a 99.9% charge before charging without the cabin A/C when charging before. I'm at 162 lifetime MPG with 1180 miles on my dealer fill-up which still has 3/4 of a tank. It's downhill from here I think.

 

Gary



#16 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

Gary,

Ford thinks we are doing what ?

Thanks for the continuing info.

So, I tried it. The rundown:

Yesterday I did about 19 miles mostly at highway speeds with the A/C on 73 in near 100-degree conditions, Last night I charged (120 v) overnight. This morning I had 100% SOC and an indicated 28-mile EV range (23 with A/C on). Then I let it charge for nearly an hour with the A/C on. Following that, the EV range estimate had risen to 35 miles (29 with A/C on).

I will stay in "EV only" post as to just how many EV miles I actually get, but it will probably be mostly at slow street speeds, and we have 100-degree temperatures again, so I will definitely be driving with the a/C on.


Update:

Following this charge to estimated 35 mile (29 with A/C on) EV range, I drove exclusively at very slow speeds on mostly neighborhood streets and all with A/C on auto in very hot outside temperatures.
Result: 9 miles of actual EV range.
Conclusion: If you drive slowly enough with the A/C on, you can actually use more electricity cooling the car than propelling it.

Last night and this morning, I repeated the process of following the ordinary overnight charge with a further charge with the A/C on. This morning I had time only for 30 or 40 minutes of the charge with A/C on, but I reduced the thermostat to 67 degrees. The final charge with A/C raised the EV range estimate from 27 miles (20 with A/C on) to 35 miles (27 with A/C on). I then immediately embarked on a 36 mile round trip at mostly interstate speeds with the A/C on.
Result: 23 miles of actual EV range.
Comment: This is a shade more than I have ever done, and a good bit more than previously done at interstate speeds with A/C on.
Speculation: I bet that with this procedure I will be able to get near 30 miles of EV in cooler weather, charging with the A/C but driving without the A/C.
Tentative conclusion: At this point it looks like charging with A/C really does give more actual EV range, not merely more estimated range.

Edited by Smiling Jack, 12 July 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#17 OFFLINE   viajero

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 10:02 AM

Result: 9 miles of actual EV range.
Conclusion: If you drive slowly enough with the A/C on, you can actually use more electricity cooling the car than propelling it.

 

You certainly can, although 9 miles seems pretty short.  There's an option on My View to show the instantaneous power consumption of the climate control.  I've found the A/C takes 3 or 4 kW when first starting up, then usually settles down to about half a kW.  On a sunny 105 F afternoon it was pulling about 1 kW steady-state.  If you get around 6 kWh out of a full battery, that would mean you could run it down in 6 hours just sitting with the A/C on.  If you were getting in and out frequently and letting the car heat up again, it would be even fewer hours of A/C running before the battery was empty.

 

This summer I'm finding that to be the biggest benefit of getting a level 2 charger.  It allows me to precool the car fairly quickly, and to actually increase battery charge meaningfully while running the A/C.



#18 OFFLINE   Smiling Jack

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 12:37 PM

........If you were getting in and out frequently and letting the car heat up again, it would be even fewer hours of A/C running before the battery was empty.

 

........

That would have been just my pattern on those miles, and the outside temperature and direct sun were severe enough that the A/C stayed on max cool all the time; so, in an hour or so at under 10 mph average the A/C could have consumed over half of my battery charge, leaving me less than a 10 mile EV range.



#19 OFFLINE   wcshaff

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 03:03 PM

I am unclear what range is being referred to in this discussion. The range indicator on the dash display is just an estimate. I have noticed that coming back down from the mountains it can read in the high twenties or thirties.  My question is what sort of mileage are others actually getting on EV.  I have tested this twice recently with GPS tracking and both times I got 30 miles on EV.  That is with around the town driving and warm temperatures.  What kind of actual EV miles on a charge are others seeing? 



#20 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 04:37 PM

I usually have no problem getting from 20 to 25 miles in EV for a 32 mile round trip that I regularly take. This is not quite a true test since it is not a complete round trip and there are some elevation considerations that limit the mileage. The complete trip only uses about .2 gal of gas.  I am sometimes able to charge up the car for the return trip I can then complete the trip using 7.0kWh, 153.5 MPGe.  This makes me quite happy.

 

My shorter round trips (local city streets) of about 16 miles usually leave about 10 miles of range left on the battery indicator. 

 

Running AC, even when preconditioning the car, lowers the range by several miles.

 

I have also noticed that 2 miles of range goes away within a half mile of driving. One day I started driving in 'L' on a full charge and the ICE started(Per other threads this is normal). I still lost 2 miles of range even though the batteries still showed 100%. This leads me to believe that the computer estimated range is constantly affected by driving conditions and is adjusted accordingly. 

 

I am still breaking the car in as I have only put 2400 miles on it. My lifetime MPGe is >80 and is only this low due to a couple of mostly Hybrid trips. This is also my first Hybrid so I have had to make many adjustments to my driving style. The coaching displays have been very useful. 

 

On a side note, I filled the gas tank today with 8 gallons and was surprised at the recent increase in gas prices, then I realized that I didn't care that much.






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