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Dead battery

12v 12-volt battery discharge

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59 replies to this topic

#41 OFFLINE   rbort

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Posted 12 May 2015 - 07:23 AM

OK let us know how you make out.  Just remember not to leave usb or other things plugged into the car's 12v sockets and make sure the headlights are off when you finish the drive.  Hopefully you won't have any issues like this, I haven't.

 

-=>Raja.


Edited by rbort, 12 May 2015 - 07:23 AM.








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#42 OFFLINE   James E Brock

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 06:08 AM

I have had the so-called "dead battery" issue with my 2013 CMAX and 2013 CMAX Energi.   At first. it happened more with the Energi.  The car was almost completely dead except, as I recall, the overhead light.   As soon as I placed live jumper cables on the battery up front, the car was restored.   So, this leads me to believe it is NOT an actual bad battery,  The battery is fine.  It is either faulty software - or some faulty hardware.  Except for this one problem, I love the car.  

 

And I am technically inclined and like to trouble shoot.   So, I have tried to make it NOT happen.   My theory is that is has something to do with the way I shut down the car.  So, to test it, I make certain everything is shut down, particularly the start/shut off button.  I think that if I do not press the shut off button, then it sets offs a security feature - where I walk away with the key but the car is still "on".  However, when I had the power issue, I tried using the key in the door and activating the lock/unlock feature - and nothing restored the car using the key.  Perhaps leaving the car switched on keeps something running and after a while, something times out and triggers some power save shut down - or some security lock out.

 

It happened more frequently when I first go the car, perhaps once in three weeks while driving daily.   The service tech said he does plenty of CMAX's - and the jump restores it.  I have not had the issue in over one month.  So, I think it is overdue.  But, again, I have been diligent in shutting off the car properly.

 

It has almost always happened overnight.    Something could be timing out.   So far, I believe it is not temperature related, but, I have only had the car during cold weather.   Once, after I jumped it and traveled a short distance, the power issue occurred again.  Then again on the same trip after another short ride.

 

I have not tried to make it happen - yet.   But, I plan to not shut down the car with the on/off button to see if that triggers the issue.

 

Ford does not have a fix for this problem.  I have heard it was resolved in later models.


Edited by James E Brock, 02 May 2016 - 06:14 AM.


#43 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:41 AM

I have had the so-called "dead battery" issue with my 2013 CMAX and 2013 CMAX Energi.   At first. it happened more with the Energi.  The car was almost completely dead except, as I recall, the overhead light.   As soon as I placed live jumper cables on the battery up front, the car was restored.   So, this leads me to believe it is NOT an actual bad battery,  The battery is fine.  It is either faulty software - or some faulty hardware.  Except for this one problem, I love the car.  

 

And I am technically inclined and like to trouble shoot.   So, I have tried to make it NOT happen.   My theory is that is has something to do with the way I shut down the car.  So, to test it, I make certain everything is shut down, particularly the start/shut off button.  I think that if I do not press the shut off button, then it sets offs a security feature - where I walk away with the key but the car is still "on".  However, when I had the power issue, I tried using the key in the door and activating the lock/unlock feature - and nothing restored the car using the key.  Perhaps leaving the car switched on keeps something running and after a while, something times out and triggers some power save shut down - or some security lock out.

 

It happened more frequently when I first go the car, perhaps once in three weeks while driving daily.   The service tech said he does plenty of CMAX's - and the jump restores it.  I have not had the issue in over one month.  So, I think it is overdue.  But, again, I have been diligent in shutting off the car properly.

 

It has almost always happened overnight.    Something could be timing out.   So far, I believe it is not temperature related, but, I have only had the car during cold weather.   Once, after I jumped it and traveled a short distance, the power issue occurred again.  Then again on the same trip after another short ride.

 

I have not tried to make it happen - yet.   But, I plan to not shut down the car with the on/off button to see if that triggers the issue.

 

Ford does not have a fix for this problem.  I have heard it was resolved in later models.

 

I am now 18 months in on my second battery will no problems to date.

 

What is the battery resting voltage? (unlatch the hood and let the car completely shut down after shutting it off the measure the battery voltages at the terminals under the hood. Typically is should be around 12.5V or higher. 

Take a second measurement on entering the car but prior to pressing the start button. A low voltage here may indicate a weak battery.

 

Typically a dead battery may be related to something internal that prevents the normal shutdown. The first question the service tech will ask is if anything is plugged into the USB ports or to either or the car's diagnostic ports. You need to eliminate any possibility of something external as being the cause. Make sure the car has most current firmware updates as there have been several since the car was produced.

 

A weak battery can be tested by the dealer or most any auto supply stores.

 

I checked My 12V battery with my ScanGauge this morning and turning the car in in accessory mode it shows 13.1V. In run mode it is 14.5V. These higher voltages are provided though the DC to DC converter from the HVB. They should be sufficient to keep the battery properly charged. Some people have used a smart battery charger to occasionally properly condition the battery. I'm not sure if this actually helps. 

 

The best way to know that you shut the car down properly is to observe the summery screen in the left display. I also have my lights on Auto so I never have to worry about not manually shutting them off.

 

I keep one of those portable battery packs in the car in case I ever get another dead battery. It does not take much power to jump since the 12V is not used to crank a starter.

 

 

Good luck with you battery issue. Hope this info is helpful.

 

Tom



#44 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 07:54 AM

I have had the so-called "dead battery" issue with my 2013 CMAX and 2013 CMAX Energi.   At first. it happened more with the Energi.  The car was almost completely dead except, as I recall, the overhead light.   As soon as I placed live jumper cables on the battery up front, the car was restored.   So, this leads me to believe it is NOT an actual bad battery,  The battery is fine.  It is either faulty software - or some faulty hardware.  Except for this one problem, I love the car.  

 

And I am technically inclined and like to trouble shoot.   So, I have tried to make it NOT happen.   My theory is that is has something to do with the way I shut down the car.  So, to test it, I make certain everything is shut down, particularly the start/shut off button.  I think that if I do not press the shut off button, then it sets offs a security feature - where I walk away with the key but the car is still "on".  However, when I had the power issue, I tried using the key in the door and activating the lock/unlock feature - and nothing restored the car using the key.  Perhaps leaving the car switched on keeps something running and after a while, something times out and triggers some power save shut down - or some security lock out.

 

It happened more frequently when I first go the car, perhaps once in three weeks while driving daily.   The service tech said he does plenty of CMAX's - and the jump restores it.  I have not had the issue in over one month.  So, I think it is overdue.  But, again, I have been diligent in shutting off the car properly.

 

It has almost always happened overnight.    Something could be timing out.   So far, I believe it is not temperature related, but, I have only had the car during cold weather.   Once, after I jumped it and traveled a short distance, the power issue occurred again.  Then again on the same trip after another short ride.

 

I have not tried to make it happen - yet.   But, I plan to not shut down the car with the on/off button to see if that triggers the issue.

 

Ford does not have a fix for this problem.  I have heard it was resolved in later models.

You have probably searched the two forums for this issue. I think in several instances, they have found bad wiring, or something else draining the battery. But it took a lot of trips to the dealer, and those were all under warranty.



#45 OFFLINE   jdbob

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 08:45 AM

This thread has a link to TSB 14-0155 that covers common causes for a dead battery.

 

http://fordcmaxenerg...-my-c-max-died/

 

In my case I had an early production car (Mar 2013) and it was the TCU, which I finally had

replaced last week.



#46 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:37 AM

I have had the so-called "dead battery" issue with my 2013 CMAX and 2013 CMAX Energi.   At first. it happened more with the Energi.  The car was almost completely dead except, as I recall, the overhead light.   As soon as I placed live jumper cables on the battery up front, the car was restored.   So, this leads me to believe it is NOT an actual bad battery,  The battery is fine.  It is either faulty software - or some faulty hardware.  Except for this one problem, I love the car.  

 

And I am technically inclined and like to trouble shoot.   So, I have tried to make it NOT happen.   My theory is that is has something to do with the way I shut down the car.  So, to test it, I make certain everything is shut down, particularly the start/shut off button.  I think that if I do not press the shut off button, then it sets offs a security feature - where I walk away with the key but the car is still "on".  However, when I had the power issue, I tried using the key in the door and activating the lock/unlock feature - and nothing restored the car using the key.  Perhaps leaving the car switched on keeps something running and after a while, something times out and triggers some power save shut down - or some security lock out.

 

It happened more frequently when I first go the car, perhaps once in three weeks while driving daily.   The service tech said he does plenty of CMAX's - and the jump restores it.  I have not had the issue in over one month.  So, I think it is overdue.  But, again, I have been diligent in shutting off the car properly.

 

It has almost always happened overnight.    Something could be timing out.   So far, I believe it is not temperature related, but, I have only had the car during cold weather.   Once, after I jumped it and traveled a short distance, the power issue occurred again.  Then again on the same trip after another short ride.

 

I have not tried to make it happen - yet.   But, I plan to not shut down the car with the on/off button to see if that triggers the issue.

 

Ford does not have a fix for this problem.  I have heard it was resolved in later models.

I'm not sure on the entirety of your actual issue(s) but if you are only jump starting the car and then taking a short trip you aren't giving your battery enough time to recharge so it will be more likely to not have enough power to boot the next time and the longer you keep it in these mostly dead states the less capability the battery is going to have overall.

 

Also if you took the car for a drive and you're not pressing the off button afterwards then you are also definitely not shutting the car off.  However, in that situation you should run out of gas before you'd ever come back to a dead battery...



#47 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 07:08 AM

I'm not sure on the entirety of your actual issue(s) but if you are only jump starting the car and then taking a short trip you aren't giving your battery enough time to recharge so it will be more likely to not have enough power to boot the next time and the longer you keep it in these mostly dead states the less capability the battery is going to have overall.

 

Also if you took the car for a drive and you're not pressing the off button afterwards then you are also definitely not shutting the car off.  However, in that situation you should run out of gas before you'd ever come back to a dead battery...

 

Well, I take back one of those statements.  I was looking for something else in the owner's manual and stumbled upon a paragraph that states that indeed if you get out and leave the car with the key but the car is still on/running it will shut off after 15 minutes.  Wonder if it will do that even if someone were driving at that point...



#48 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 08:12 AM

I'm not sure on the entirety of your actual issue(s) but if you are only jump starting the car and then taking a short trip you aren't giving your battery enough time to recharge so it will be more likely to not have enough power to boot the next time and the longer you keep it in these mostly dead states the less capability the battery is going to have overall.

 

Also if you took the car for a drive and you're not pressing the off button afterwards then you are also definitely not shutting the car off.  However, in that situation you should run out of gas before you'd ever come back to a dead battery...

When plugged in, the car will charge the HVB, then charge up the 12v. So if he is charging daily, it should not go down. This is unlike the hybrid, which needs the ICE to recharge.



#49 OFFLINE   Levi Smith

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 08:16 AM

When plugged in, the car will charge the HVB, then charge up the 12v. So if he is charging daily, it should not go down. This is unlike the hybrid, which needs the ICE to recharge.

Agreed.  (Well, it doesn't need the ICE necessarily, just to be booted to get the HV power turned on to charge).

 

But if he was unplugged, jump started it, drove it for 5 minutes and then shut it off again(still unplugged) and then went to start it again, it's not exactly extraordinary for the car to not want to start again since it didn't get much time to charge the 12v...



#50 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 09:41 AM

James only has the one post. Hopefully he will come back and let us know what he has found out about his 12V battery problem.

 

Tom



#51 OFFLINE   James E Brock

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Posted 25 November 2016 - 04:19 PM

James only has the one post. Hopefully he will come back and let us know what he has found out about his 12V battery problem.

 

Tom

 

Hello again,

I have had good luck with the 2013 C-Max.  It is rarely completely dead - but it has happened on a couple of occasions.  I have a nice Jumper pack under the front seat and as soon as I connect it - Voila! it all comes back.   I think I did not properly shut down the car.   As long as I am diligent in shutting it down properly, I have not had problems.  And I plug it in after I stow it away for the day.   If I don't it will probably be completely dead - until I put the jumper on it.

Aside from that, I love the 62 mpg - and I purchased it used at a very low price.   



#52 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 05:47 AM

Hello again,

I have had good luck with the 2013 C-Max.  It is rarely completely dead - but it has happened on a couple of occasions.  I have a nice Jumper pack under the front seat and as soon as I connect it - Voila! it all comes back.   I think I did not properly shut down the car.   As long as I am diligent in shutting it down properly, I have not had problems.  And I plug it in after I stow it away for the day.   If I don't it will probably be completely dead - until I put the jumper on it.

Aside from that, I love the 62 mpg - and I purchased it used at a very low price.   

 

I too have a jumper pack and the two occasions that I tried to use it, the battery would not take enough charge to get the car started even when the jumper pack was at a full charge. My battery did have a confirmed bad cell when it was replaced.

I don't know how to improperly shut the car down. If I fail to shut the car off and get out it honks at me twice when the door closes.

 

I am very jealous of your getting a great deal on this car. Buying new to be an early adopter has its disadvantages.

 

Tom



#53 OFFLINE   stevedebi

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:20 AM

I too have a jumper pack and the two occasions that I tried to use it, the battery would not take enough charge to get the car started even when the jumper pack was at a full charge. My battery did have a confirmed bad cell when it was replaced.

I don't know how to improperly shut the car down. If I fail to shut the car off and get out it honks at me twice when the door closes.

 

I am very jealous of your getting a great deal on this car. Buying new to be an early adopter has its disadvantages.

 

Tom

My lease is up in September. I won't be able to buy it back - it isn't worth it. I will buy a used Energi (or hybrid C-Max) instead, and save 4K or more. These things just don't retain value.



#54 OFFLINE   chappyware

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 04:10 PM

I need the help of someone that Ford listens to. My 2013 energi had a battery replaced 8/30/16 and again 9/12/16. Dealer said it was a bad cell both times. Today, 1/29/17 it's on its way to the dealer with a dead battery again. Ford MUST know about this and how can I get it REALLY fixed. If the person with Ford's ear needs it, my VIN is 1FADP5CU0DL543562.

 

PLEASE HELP! It's passed the Lemon Law threshold for milage and I can't afford a new battery every month once the warranty expires!



#55 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 05:23 AM

I need the help of someone that Ford listens to. My 2013 energi had a battery replaced 8/30/16 and again 9/12/16. Dealer said it was a bad cell both times. Today, 1/29/17 it's on its way to the dealer with a dead battery again. Ford MUST know about this and how can I get it REALLY fixed. If the person with Ford's ear needs it, my VIN is 1FADP5CU0DL543562.

 

PLEASE HELP! It's passed the Lemon Law threshold for milage and I can't afford a new battery every month once the warranty expires!

 

It is possible that the replacement battery was defective. My daughter had that happen with a replacement battery and although is was surprising to me, the service rep indicated that it does happen occasionally.

 

I did have to pay for a replacement 12V battery after the new car warrantee expired and it comes with a 3 year unlimited mile and prorated for several years beyond that. I hope you don't have another early failure but if you do the warrantee won't help with the inconvenience but it will prevent having to buy another battery.

 

Tom



#56 OFFLINE   Dan Baxley

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:07 PM

Today, 10/06/2017  My Cmax Energi was dead as dead could be.  This is the second time.  It is in the Ford service center now, again.  The first time I spent 4 hours in the waiting room and when I got the car back it was supposedly fixed.  Now they tell me they are in touch with the Ford Tech and will keep the car for a few days to try and find out what is wrong.  Hum,  The first time it was completely dead and all the doors locked, luckily I had a cut key and was able to open the door the pop the hood, also fortunately this happened in my daughters driveway.  I put a mini charger on it and let it sit for awhile, while I did some internet research.  It started up after a couple of hours on the charger.  I contacted Ford, and took it in armed with all my internet info, like the Ford service bulletin on this very problem (TSB 13-5-1).  That first visit, the 4 hour wait, was a complete waste of time.  As you will see --   

        My wife took the car on a 200 mile round trip and -- the following day I took the car to a local park to do some coin detecting with a friend.  When we were done I return to my car and was DEAD-- just like before.  We used jumper cables my friend had and it started right up and I immediately drove it 30 miles to the Ford Service Center.  My wife had called them and they said to bring it right in.    

         That is when we found out they had done nothing to the car on the first visit, that first time.  Telling my wife they ran it through some test and  could not find anything wrong. Like this has never happened?  Maybe now they will take it a little more serious, and this time I had them give me a ride back home.  Yep, getting smarter. 

          I look on the internet and forums like this one and find that not only is this a known problem, it is not exclusive to a particular year.  We have put abut 12,000 miles on this vehicle and not one problem.  We took it in once on a recall to replace the Modem (?).  About 1500 miles after this we had the first DEAD CAR.  Funny, I had 14 miles of Electric reserve and the car battery is dead and this stops everything????  My motor-home has a boost switch that you can flip to start the engine if the engine battery goes dead.  There should be something for this for these cars, maybe?  They are all acting stupid at the Service Center, like this is so bazaar.  But I have an idea that the real fix for this issue may be very expensive for Ford to correct and that is why they are all so dumb about it and just turn you back out on the road hoping it will fix itself.  Believe me, it is a scary thing to not be able to trust your electric car hybrid - you cannot push it to get it restarted and if you do not have a cut key you are sunk.  I am grateful that this did not happen to my wife the day before. 

           They are playing around with the idea that something is draining the battery, but after a full day of straight driving, (as my wife had done) and then it goes dead the very next day?  Nah, don't thinks so.  No one mentions the Alternator?  These car batteries are really small and what a helpless feeling to know you have a ton of voltage just sitting under the back seat and cannot get to it.  This is a problem, a real problem.  I wonder if the car was no longer under warranty how that would work out $$$$ ?  Am I ranting, you damned right I am.  And what makes it hurt all the more is that I love this car.  This car is the best (until now) I have ever owned.  The seats the ride, the plug in battery -- Oh, the mentioning the plug in -- when it was found Dead the first time I pulled the Charge cable out and plug it in and guess what?  NOTHING.  The only solution to not being stranded is to hope to meet someone who will let you jump from their car.  Or, buy a portable battery jump starter.  But this is not a fix, only a method to get you on the road again, and then sweat it out at every light and stop, when the engine shuts down, as to whether it will start up again and keep you going.  This may become a recall issue -- if Ford does not get on this -- There is a safety concern here.  For example what if my wife is alone in a not so safe area, passing through, and her fancy little car goes DEAD?  I can think of more situation this could eventually lead to problems of personal safety.  Okay, done, just letting everyone who thinks this is some kind of small thing that it is not.  Just wait, you may be next, then you will see.  Peace, Dan


Edited by Dan Baxley, 06 October 2017 - 06:43 PM.


#57 OFFLINE   Dan Baxley

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 06:17 PM

I just left a long rant and I feel better not.  But, I forgot on thing, I have not read bout anyone mentioning this.  I drove the car to the park, 2 hours later I open the car door, I had not locked, and pushed the start button and a message came up on the scree, "System shutting down to save battery" -- Now that turned out to be a joke, as the so called "saved battery" was DEAD, or seemed to be.  Something was keeping the Battery away from starting up the car.  I really did not need the car battery as I still had 14 miles for electric energy left.  What good is it to shut the system down to safe a dead battery?  The first time this happened I made a voltage reading on the car battery and it was completely dead and I used a battery charger to revitalize it.  Ford could find nothing wrong,  See previous Post.



#58 OFFLINE   Tom_NC_1

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 04:10 AM

Dan, to answer your the question in your first post about why no one mentioned the alternator is that there is no alternate in this car. The voltage used to recharge the 12V battery is from the DC to DC converter. I am currently on my third battery as each of the first two were replaced after being in the car for 18 months. My second battery was replaced after it went dead. I am now at about 18 months on the third battery and have been regularly monitoring the resting battery voltage and is is still showing a healthy 12.5V. 

I agree with you that it is very odd to have a dead battery when the car is being used daily. It might be that with all the electronics on board something is failing to turn off and it ends up draining the battery. When a new battery is installed everything is reset so the dealer is unable to find anything wrong. Or it might be something else entirely. I will continue to monitor my 12V battery and hope it last longer. At least my current battery has a 3 year unlimited milage replacement warrantee.

 

Tom



#59 OFFLINE   viajero

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Posted 07 October 2017 - 05:07 PM

I had one of the very first 2013 C-Max Energis and went 4 years without any 12V battery problems at all. Sometimes I’d leave it in long-term parking for two weeks and it would still start right up.

A little past 4 years, the 12V was dead one morning, and each morning thereafter. A slightly short lifetime but nothing to really complain about in this hot climate.

The dealer replaced the 12V battery, and a couple weeks later it was dead one morning, and then several more mornings over the next couple weeks.

Dreading another trip to dealer service, I put it on a wall-plug battery tender overnight. After that, no more 12V problems for several more months. I just traded it in, and it was still doing well, reading 12.3 to 12.6 Volts when it first started up, before the DC-DC converter turned on.

My hypothesis is that MY car could keep a good 12V battery topped up, but once the battery was seriously discharged, the car could never get it back to a full charge again. I think the “new” battery they gave me had been sitting on a shelf for too long. Perhaps if I’d left the car plugged in and turned on overnight it would have fully restored the 12V, but I never tried that.

Now, I’m not saying that’s the story with EVERYONE’S car. Given the aforementioned TSB, there are certainly other things that could be the problem. But it might be worth hooking up a computerized battery charger for a day or two and see if that helps.

#60 OFFLINE   jzchen

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Posted 09 October 2017 - 01:33 AM

Lead acid batteries get damaged from discharging.  It is just as it is.  Mine and user Altabrig died on the same day, at around the same time, in somewhat near vicinity to each other.  I suspected some My Ford Mobile event which woke and drained the cars.  Exact same "System is shutting down to save Battery" my wife noted, and when I found the dead battery a week or two later I saw the same note on the screen.

 

I also noticed just before I replaced the battery that when we got in to go to Church the rear interior trunk light was lit and I could not start the car.  Strangely, after calling AAA, she was able to get it to start and cancelled the roadside assistance call.  The battery was pretty much dead a week or two later as I noted, (tested with my Midtronics Acton tester), and I replaced it.  Since I noticed the rear trunk lights on I also replaced those with Sylvania ZEVO LED equivalents, which should save on drain.  Basically when the battery dies, all electrical systems start "acting strange".  So I suspected the rear hatch was not closing properly, and it doesn't help that having a partially drained 12 V may cause some systems to start acting up as well.

 

After changing the battery, and replacing the two 6 W bulbs with LEDs, and resetting the battery monitor, it has been a very peaceful existence again....










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